Just bought into Rivera DVC, thinking of cancelling and buying non-direct.

[Sandisw]

Its easy I can expect to buy SSR in 2054 and then resell in 2069 for a profit to off set the contract cost to some extent. Like I said you have to do crazy math if you really want to get to the bottom of it. It doesn't make Riviera cheaper though just potentially a better value with a longer term contract. Your total output of cost until 2054 will be less with SSR.

What we also didn't account for is that RIV and SSR are likely to go up at the same increase rate meaning the MF gap is likely to be much larger by the end of the SSR contract. So I will have way over $12.7k in purchasing a new 50 year contract from SSR. Lets assume a modest 3% increase after an initial 3 flat years from RIVs MFs. We are left with a $45k difference in maintenance fees. That being said it likely is somewhere between $12.7k and $45k but likely closer to the $12.7k number.

We also didn't account for the fact you could reduce your point requirement with SSR compared to RIV. With 250 points (since you want to account for that discount) then you likely are looking at a 1BR-Std which is 260 points at RIV in October (under the new charts). On the flip side SSR is going to be 199 points for that same week in October. That is a 20% reduction.

A 20% reduction on the RIV MFs (using a flat yearly MF even though we know they will increase around 3%) would be a $54,780 difference by the time the SSR contract ends. Again we are left with a gap at the end of the contract. The assumption is though you can buy a SSR contract in 2054, resell it in 2069, and make up for a good portion of the buy-in cost. Plus have flexibility midway through your RIV contract to buy a different resort than SSR if you so are inclined since you are rebuying in.

Now we could try to make an assumption of selling RIV as well when we hit 2054 which would buy back possibly some of that MF difference. It would be highly dependent on the MF difference between the two if you could make back the difference though.

In the end though I don't see how someone can honestly say today its cheaper to get RIV. As money in 2054 and what might happen there is much less valuable than money today over the next 5 years when you will be saving money. Remember I responded to the simple comment "Riveria is the cheapest".

I would take my risk on RIV if I had to choose between the two but thats because of other aspects and how nice RIV will be not which one is cheaper.

You are making good points, but I guess it comes down to the original statement and it being cheaper. All of what you are mentioning are facts that play a role in determining if it is a better value, and they could play into ones decision,

I guess I just dont agree with the idea that you only compare the contracts through 2054. Given even your figures for the extra cost of MFs., even if one sells RIV at the same time one would be done with SSR, they only have to sell it for $60/point and they more than cover the extra, assuming the difference between the two stays the same. They could possibly make a few thousand if this were to happen.

I guess that is why I am having a trouble with using MFs only and not term of contract because it’s treating them as though they DO end at the same time and they don’t. As you mention, in 2054, someone would have to buy another contract that gets them to 2070 and that will have a cost which needs to be factored in,

The only aspects we know for right now to be true is that you can buy 250 RIV points for $750 more than SSR...given current incentives..and for that additional the $750, you get 16 extra years of points, Resale value is a wash because both would probably sell on todays market for about $100/point

The only other thing we know is that for 2020, you will pay in MFs about $375 more for RIV than SSR. Beyond that, it’s speculation for what that difference will be.

We obviously don’t see it the same way, it comes down to the purchase price, And, based on buying a contract that has 50 years vs 34 years, you are paying less per point for all points in the RIV contract than SSR,

Someone could buy 275 RIV points, pay the extra $875 above buying SSR, and then rent out those extra 25, and then MFs yearly would be the same. Now, we could say that this changes things, but not different than ignoring that RIV is a longer contract.

So, what has my long winded post lead to. That defining what is the cheapest resort to purchase really depends on what factors you want to use to figure it out. Based on length of contract, you are paying less per point to buy RIV direct over SSR.

 

[crvetter]

Trying to assign a financial value TODAY to benefits that will be received 35 years from now is simply not rational. Not a personal attack, I'm just telling you that nowhere else on Earth does any business count on benefits or cash flows that are occuring in 2054 and beyond. This DVC Board is literally the only place.

I mean many business do count on cash flows (in - asset or out - liability) that may be that far out. An example business (some of the largest out there) would be life/retirement insurance companies for example. Actually many financial institutions/products in general are interested in long tenor cash flows.

It is perfectly rational to consider the benefits in the future (even if it’s 35 years away) as long as you have logical assumptions that allow you to value what those benefits are. In the case of DVC some members know they want to (barring any catastrophe or change in Disney) keep going to Disney or will their benefits to children that might want use them it would be rational to value those extra ~15 years. They would be having a known product for those remaining 15 years vs projecting to buy an unknown product when the SSR contract expires in 2054.

Though as you also mentioned a more risk adverse member might prefer the 2054 expiration date of SSR because of the earlier known expiration thus the end of the MF or perhaps they don’t expect to use the benefits past that time. Both are still rational valuations of the benefits post 2054 (here the value is just determined to be minimal or 0)

 

[Sandisw]

I mean many business do count on cash flows (in - asset or out - liability) that may be that far out. An example business (some of the largest out there) would be life/retirement insurance companies for example. Actually many financial institutions/products in general are interested in long tenor cash flows.

It is perfectly rational to consider the benefits in the future (even if it’s 35 years away) as long as you have logical assumptions that allow you to value what those benefits are. In the case of DVC some members know they want to (barring any catastrophe or change in Disney) keep going to Disney or will their benefits to children that might want use them it would be rational to value those extra ~15 years. They would be having a known product for those remaining 15 years vs projecting to buy an unknown product when the SSR contract expires in 2054.

Exactly what we did when we sold BWV and bought RIV. My adult children wanted DVC and will be in their 70s, early 80s when it ends. Those extra years were important!

 

[sethschroeder]

I did incorrectly do the MF price difference in my previous posts (figured through 2070) apologize for that didn't mean to. I also want to point out all this math is also based off the $20 discount on getting 250+ points, giving RIV the best chance to come out ahead (even though a majority of owners likely have closer to 1 week in a studio worth of points).

You are making good points, but I guess it comes down to the original statement and it being cheaper. All of what you are mentioning are facts that play a role in determining if it is a better value, and they could play into ones decision,

I mean answer this question. Which one will you spend less money on the SSR contract or RIV contract? So if you want to boil it down something like BRV might be the "cheapest" for total cost of ownership hahaha.

they only have to sell it for $60/point and they more than cover the extra,

Incorrect you would have an upfront cost difference of $32835 (199*$165) vs $43680 (260*$165) a total of $10,845. Then add in MF difference (not accounting for increases) of $81k (199 points @ $6.76) vs $130k (260 points @ $8.30) for a total difference of $49141.16

So you would need to sell your 260 points at $231/point (which may be plausible in 30 years even with restrictions).

Flip side if you say I need 260 for each (which I wouldn't if I was staying at my home resort) it would be a upfront cost difference of $780. Then a MF difference of $24,209.02 (again not account for price increase on MFs). Which would mean you needed to sell your 260 points for $96.11/point (which you likely could easily get in 30 years).

That defining what is the cheapest resort to purchase really depends on what factors you want to use to figure it out.

Which we agree on that you can't just state Riviera is the cheapest resort without caveats. But in theory I probably could make almost any resort the "cheapest" if I wanted to start spinning out crazy ideas hahaha. RIV makes sense some what easily over resorts with much short contract length and if you will get full use of the contract years.

One further thing just figuring out CCV as an alternative because the years are basically the same (2 year difference).

1BR points is 232 vs 260 (we can assume like previously you can get a Standard view yearly at RIV a Preferred view goes up to 333 points).

• Upfront cost difference: $51,040 vs $43,680 OR $57,200 vs $43,680 (if required to get 260 points)
• MF Fees (until 2067): $187,601.65 vs $234,230.71 OR $210,243.23 vs $234,230.71 (if required to get 260 points) [no increase to MF included which we know would happen]
• Total cost: CCV Cheaper by $39,269 OR CCV Cheaper by $10,467

If you then rent points for the last two years. You could rent points for $75/point (if on 232 point contract) or $20/point (if on 260 point contract).

The reason I keep stating the home resort point requirements is because of the saying buy where you want to stay. We also don't know if the new resale restrictions might start to lock things down even more as 2042 resorts start to expire.

Its interesting to do this math and if you are young enough it might even make sense to look at the idea of selling Riviera in 30 years vs a SSR contract. Especially if the pricing keeps going up 4% yearly like it has since 1990 as we would be over $600/point

 

[ray3127]

as long as you have logical assumptions that allow you to value what those benefits are.

Fair point about some businesses that have forecasts over long timelines. But those are exceptions, not the rule. And even then, how confident is anybody with a 35-year forecast? And what is the present value of benefits occuring 36-50 years from now?

I pulled out this particular quote, because that may be a larger issue to me. Call me crazy, but I have absolutely no basis for what my vacation preferences will be in 35 years, as I will be 67 years old then. My kids will be in their late 30's, so I really can't draw any conclusions for them at this point either. To try to project any sort of logical assumption related to vacation patterns in 35 years... I'm sorry if I'm a bit of a debbie downer about that, but I just don't see it. I don't think it is logical.

I understand others may believe it is logical for them. That's fine, but I think it's also fine for me to point out that 35 years is a really long time, especially when we're talking about vacations, so I don't buy it.

 

[Soap_1984]

I agree that the extra years provide no value to me other than potentially increasing resale value; in the case of riviera I am going to assume it is essentially worthless with ten years left. Riviera needs to be 50 years in length because it's expensive; you save money in years 30-50, right around when I'll be dead lol. Great.

 

[crvetter]

Fair point about some businesses that have forecasts over long timelines. But those are exceptions, not the rule. And even then, how confident is anybody with a 35-year forecast? And what is the present value of benefits occuring 36-50 years from now?

I pulled out this particular quote, because that may be a larger issue to me. Call me crazy, but I have absolutely no basis for what my vacation preferences will be in 35 years, as I will be 67 years old then. My kids will be in their late 30's, so I really can't draw any conclusions for them at this point either. To try to project any sort of logical assumption related to vacation patterns in 35 years... I'm sorry if I'm a bit of a debbie downer about that, but I just don't see it. I don't think it is logical.

I understand others may believe it is logical for them. That's fine, but I think it's also fine for me to point out that 35 years is a really long time, especially when we're talking about vacations, so I don't buy it.

To remain on topic of DVC, my main point was that each individual is different and some can have a reasonable degree in confidence on what will or will not be their vacation habits in 35 years. Those people should build that into their analysis if they choose too when deciding what resort to buy as it would be rational for them to do so. It’s fair to point out that 35 years is a long time to draw scrutiny to their analysis to help them out; however, to say their assumptions (and knowledge of their family) is illogical or irrational, without basis, was my main issue.

Though to answer you question on the present value of the benefits in 35-50 years that is a well utilized in finance and many discussions have been had on the boards about that. It is the same process as any break even analysis out to 2054 that was used for SSR you simply need to extend for 2054-2070 on how to get that present value.

 

[Sandisw]

I did incorrectly do the MF price difference in my previous posts (figured through 2070) apologize for that didn't mean to. I also want to point out all this math is also based off the $20 discount on getting 250+ points, giving RIV the best chance to come out ahead (even though a majority of owners likely have closer to 1 week in a studio worth of points).



I mean answer this question. Which one will you spend less money on the SSR contract or RIV contract? So if you want to boil it down something like BRV might be the "cheapest" for total cost of ownership hahaha.



Incorrect you would have an upfront cost difference of $32835 (199*$165) vs $43680 (260*$165) a total of $10,845. Then add in MF difference (not accounting for increases) of $81k (199 points @ $6.76) vs $130k (260 points @ $8.30) for a total difference of $49141.16

So you would need to sell your 260 points at $231/point (which may be plausible in 30 years even with restrictions).

Flip side if you say I need 260 for each (which I wouldn't if I was staying at my home resort) it would be a upfront cost difference of $780. Then a MF difference of $24,209.02 (again not account for price increase on MFs). Which would mean you needed to sell your 260 points for $96.11/point (which you likely could easily get in 30 years).



Which we agree on that you can't just state Riviera is the cheapest resort without caveats. But in theory I probably could make almost any resort the "cheapest" if I wanted to start spinning out crazy ideas hahaha. RIV makes sense some what easily over resorts with much short contract length and if you will get full use of the contract years.

One further thing just figuring out CCV as an alternative because the years are basically the same (2 year difference).

1BR points is 232 vs 260 (we can assume like previously you can get a Standard view yearly at RIV a Preferred view goes up to 333 points).

• Upfront cost difference: $51,040 vs $43,680 OR $57,200 vs $43,680 (if required to get 260 points)
• MF Fees (until 2067): $187,601.65 vs $234,230.71 OR $210,243.23 vs $234,230.71 (if required to get 260 points) [no increase to MF included which we know would happen]
• Total cost: CCV Cheaper by $39,269 OR CCV Cheaper by $10,467

If you then rent points for the last two years. You could rent points for $75/point (if on 232 point contract) or $20/point (if on 260 point contract).

The reason I keep stating the home resort point requirements is because of the saying buy where you want to stay. We also don't know if the new resale restrictions might start to lock things down even more as 2042 resorts start to expire.

Its interesting to do this math and if you are young enough it might even make sense to look at the idea of selling Riviera in 30 years vs a SSR contract. Especially if the pricing keeps going up 4% yearly like it has since 1990 as we would be over $600/point

I think you misunderstood one point. if you have to sell for $60/point in 2054..$15 K..the owner would recoup all of the extra MFs..and then some. SSR would be worth 0 at that point.

Direct purchase price right now on 250 points for SSR is $165/ppt with RIV it is $168..so $3/pt...total purchase price difference is $750.

I wasn’t suggesting that selling price would get them their purchase price but rather stating what could happen by ending ownership for both at 2054, either by selling RIV or becsuse SSR is done

 

[mustinjourney]

Except its not $750 more. You have to buy 250 points to get that price difference which I pointed out will end up costing you $12705 more in MFs.

I am not accounting for the MFs past when SSR expires for RIV. Sorry if I misunderstood. The extra MFs of $12k is just until 2054 when the SSR expires.

several things wrong with this.
First. It’s not $12000 in today’s dollars. Even if both increase at same amount, the real dollar amount is not going to feel like $12k.
It’s probably closer to $4k.
Second. Riviera MFs aren’t going to increase over the next 5 years anywhere close to the same as SSR.

3 years ago, SSR was the clear cheapest MFs. Now it is not. Isn’t VGF cheaper now? Guess what. Riviera will likely do the same thing.

 

[zavandor]

3 years ago, SSR was the clear cheapest MFs. Now it is not. Isn’t VGF cheaper now? Guess what. Riviera will likely do the same thing.

The Riviera MF are the highest on property because of the transportation costs. Someone published some time ago the breakdown of the MF into the various components. That showed that all costs were in line with other resorts, except for transportation being much much higher.
This is understandable, because Riviera has both buses to all parks not shared with other resorts (so higher costs) and the Skyliner which is an additional expense.
Probably Disney estimated the maintenance costs for the Skyliner on the high side and we may see adjustments over time. So that component of the MF may stay constant or even decrease over time as the real costs are assessed (it might increase if breakdown are frequent, but I don't think that will happen). Also, taxes are often estimated on the high side when the resort opens.
However there are still dedicated buses to all parks and all the other expenses which didn't seem too much out of line. Those components will increase as much as they'll increase at other resorts.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I agree that the extra years provide no value to me other than potentially increasing resale value; in the case of riviera I am going to assume it is essentially worthless with ten years left. Riviera needs to be 50 years in length because it's expensive; you save money in years 30-50, right around when I'll be dead lol. Great.

In the case of 2042 resorts vs. 2067( or 2069), the resale value will definitely come into play.

 

[sethschroeder]

I think you misunderstood one point. if you have to sell for $60/point in 2054..$15 K..the owner would recoup all of the extra MFs..and then some. SSR would be worth 0 at that point.

Direct purchase price right now on 250 points for SSR is $165/ppt with RIV it is $168..so $3/pt...total purchase price difference is $750.

I wasn’t suggesting that selling price would get them their purchase price but rather stating what could happen by ending ownership for both at 2054, either by selling RIV or becsuse SSR is done

Correct and as I outlined the MFs difference adds up to much more.

several things wrong with this.
First. It’s not $12000 in today’s dollars. Even if both increase at same amount, the real dollar amount is not going to feel like $12k.
It’s probably closer to $4k.
Second. Riviera MFs aren’t going to increase over the next 5 years anywhere close to the same as SSR.

3 years ago, SSR was the clear cheapest MFs. Now it is not. Isn’t VGF cheaper now? Guess what. Riviera will likely do the same thing.

As far as today's dollars comment. That just reinforces the lower price of SSR vs RIV now. Again it's a huge difference if not purchasing 250 points (Price goes from $188 to $168 vs SSR $165 starting at 100). Which is a caveat not brought up in the original statement "Riviera is the cheapest direct resort".

Actually BLT has been pretty much the cheapest every year. SSR has always been right at the bottom though and still is for MFs.

VGF going in to its first year open (2014, which RIV is in 2020) was cheaper than 5 of the 7 resorts. Rivera is the most expensive MFs at WDW currently (OKW next at $7.83 with a 8% increase this year). VGF started having the standard 3% range increase in year 3 with a 1.8% increase in year 2 and no increase year 1.

If we map RIV to follow the same as VGF it will be at $8.47 (1.98% increase) in 2021. At that point with a 5% increase across the board to every other resort it still will be the most expensive MFs of any WDW location. SSR would be $7.10, BLT $6.91, CCV $7.82, and OKW $8.23

One thing you need to remember is that RIV is a fully stand alone resort, has a stand alone bus service for a tiny number of rooms, and is not sharing guest services except the Skyliner. Part of the issue with the Skyliner is they have their own station. Why is that important? They will likely take on most of the expenses for the station among a small group of rooms. On the flip side CBR has 1536 rooms sharing a central terminal and AOA/POP has 4864 rooms sharing their stand alone leg of the skyliner. Also not sure how they divide out expenses but could the "crash" be put on RIVs expenses for the Skyliner since it happened at the RIV terminal?

So Riviera has a reason why it will continue to be the most expensive or very close to the top.

 

[sethschroeder]

In the case of 2042 resorts vs. 2067( or 2069), the resale value will definitely come into play.

Part of the issue to me is why does 2067/69 have to be the "end". I mean in theory we believe DVC will continue to exist and sell resorts. Why isn't 2100 the end date? Which would get my kids to when they are 80? (Thats what Sandisw has done when purchsaing RIV)

I can reasonably assume selling my RIV contract in 2054 would be the same concept as SSR in 2070.

People will say I can't even begin to guess what the prices will be on contracts. Well its typically went up by 4% yearly over the 20 years of the product. I also can't know what MFs will be in the future either but can make assumptions based on historicals.

This all discounts Canada's fancy math and possible investment of the money saved on upfront purchase/MFs.

 

[Sandisw]

Correct and as I outlined the MFs difference adds up to much more.



As far as today's dollars comment. That just reinforces the lower price of SSR vs RIV now. Again it's a huge difference if not purchasing 250 points (Price goes from $188 to $168 vs SSR $165 starting at 100). Which is a caveat not brought up in the original statement "Riviera is the cheapest direct resort".

Actually BLT has been pretty much the cheapest every year. SSR has always been right at the bottom though and still is for MFs.

VGF going in to its first year open (2014, which RIV is in 2020) was cheaper than 5 of the 7 resorts. Rivera is the most expensive MFs at WDW currently (OKW next at $7.83 with a 8% increase this year). VGF started having the standard 3% range increase in year 3 with a 1.8% increase in year 2 and no increase year 1.

If we map RIV to follow the same as VGF it will be at $8.47 (1.98% increase) in 2021. At that point with a 5% increase across the board to every other resort it still will be the most expensive MFs of any WDW location. SSR would be $7.10, BLT $6.91, CCV $7.82, and OKW $8.23

One thing you need to remember is that RIV is a fully stand alone resort, has a stand alone bus service for a tiny number of rooms, and is not sharing guest services except the Skyliner. Part of the issue with the Skyliner is they have their own station. Why is that important? They will likely take on most of the expenses for the station among a small group of rooms. On the flip side CBR has 1536 rooms sharing a central terminal and AOA/POP has 4864 rooms sharing their stand alone leg of the skyliner. Also not sure how they divide out expenses but could the "crash" be put on RIVs expenses for the Skyliner since it happened at the RIV terminal?

So Riviera has a reason why it will continue to be the most expensive or very close to the top.

The difference between SSR and RIV MFs, is about $1.50/pt. Assuming that difference stays the same, that amounts to$375 more each year to own RiV on 250 points..the number of points the OP is considering

So, from now until 2054..33 years..that extra $375...amounts tp $12,375 more in MFs that will be paid By an owner from RIV over SSR.

Not sure where you are getting the difference would be more than that. So, as I said, in 2054, if a RIV owner can sell his contract for $60/point, the will be able to recoup that difference and an extra few thousand.

Since we have now gotten off track, i will concede that we are not viewing the comparisons the same way and if the OP wants to consider other resorts, they will have to decide how to look at what the cheapest option in Whatever definition they choose to use.

 

[iflyjetzzz]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that RIGHT NOW is a great time to buy resale. The ROFR's have slowed to a trickle, meaning you can make an offer below asking and there is a good chance it will pass ROFR. That was certainly not the case this time last year when Disney knew the resale restrictions were going to be implemented.

Yep. This is the time of year when prices are lowest on resales and it looks like most are passing ROFR at the moment.

Resale prices, based on past trends, will rise again after around mid-January.

 

[mustinjourney]

As far as today's dollars comment. That just reinforces the lower price of SSR vs RIV now. Again it's a huge difference if not purchasing 250 points (Price goes from $188 to $168 vs SSR $165 starting at 100). Which is a caveat not brought up in the original statement "Riviera is the cheapest direct resort".

First -- I never said Riviera is the cheapest direct resort. My post was just to show that for OP that is buying 250 points, it drops the price down significantly.

Second -- Not sure how SSR is such a great value in today's dollars. It barely comes out ahead. $750 today -- and $375 going forward each year. when you're dropping $45,000 initially -- $750 is practically a rounding error.

Third -- OP isn't worried about money -- they specifically stated they want the value proposition for their money. As such -- if they're like me, they will pay extra for added convenience and nicer amenities. If this is the case -- SSR is not a good comparison to RIV. So at that point, the only comparisons are really BLT, VGF or Poly.

Fourth -- If you are going to tell me that RIV costs $13000 more over the next 35 years, you can't ignore the residual value that RIV will have at that point. As someone else stated, the break even would be $60 per point -- I have almost no doubts that RIV resale will be going for much more than that in future dollars (which you have to keep it in future dollars if you're going to use the $13000 estimate since those are also in future dollars).

 

[BWV Dreamin]

As far as most economical resort, dvc resale market dot com has a semiannual calculation of most economical DVC resale resort. It doesn't include RIV yet, but fall 2019 (using 2020 MFs) shows SSR as the least expensive, based on estimated sales price, MFs, and years until expiration. I'd try to post the link but this forum doesn't like me posting links.
Just google, 'best economical DVC resorts fall 2019'.
Number 2 is now Poly and number 3 is BLT.

The chart assumes a SSR sales price of $103/pt; I just cleared ROFR @ $86/pt. That price puts me at under $9.25/pt including MFs for 2019 (35 yrs remaining on contract). One can use the article as a base and make modification/calculations based on different prices/pt.

Lucky you! I can’t get the brokers to put these kind of offers in. There is a name for that, right......

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Part of the issue to me is why does 2067/69 have to be the "end". I mean in theory we believe DVC will continue to exist and sell resorts. Why isn't 2100 the end date? Which would get my kids to when they are 80? (Thats what Sandisw has done when purchsaing RIV)

I can reasonably assume selling my RIV contract in 2054 would be the same concept as SSR in 2070.

People will say I can't even begin to guess what the prices will be on contracts. Well its typically went up by 4% yearly over the 20 years of the product. I also can't know what MFs will be in the future either but can make assumptions based on historicals.

This all discounts Canada's fancy math and possible investment of the money saved on upfront purchase/MFs.

IMO, one must always consider resale values. No it’s not the end all be all, but odds are clear that you will sell before the end date. With so much money invested in a DVC Purchase, it would be foolish to ignore resale value. YMMV.

 

[Bryan Burmeister]

I think you misunderstood one point. if you have to sell for $60/point in 2054..$15 K..the owner would recoup all of the extra MFs..and then some. SSR would be worth 0 at that point.

Direct purchase price right now on 250 points for SSR is $165/ppt with RIV it is $168..so $3/pt...total purchase price difference is $750.

I wasn’t suggesting that selling price would get them their purchase price but rather stating what could happen by ending ownership for both at 2054, either by selling RIV or becsuse SSR is done

I would really hope that Riviera will be worth more than $60 dollars per point in 2054. That's only about $20.00 in today's dollars. Surely 16 years will be worth a lot more than that? Look at beach club and boardwalk. They have roughly that much time left and are worth far more, right?

 

[sethschroeder]

I would really hope that Riviera will be worth more than $60 dollars per point in 2054. That's only about $20.00 in today's dollars. Surely 16 years will be worth a lot more than that? Look at beach club and boardwalk. They have roughly that much time left and are worth far more, right?

It's not account for the MFs difference in that math.

I would suspect you could easily get $150-200+ in 30 years time even with wacky resale regulations that are not even thought of yet.

That partly is because I think new contracts will be $300-$600/point that far down the line.

That also requires the 250 point purchase now to drop the pricing from 188 to 168.