Just back, some observations...

[POOHsie]

All I trying to say is that it's time Disney look into how they are transporting people with mobility devices--for the sake of both users and folks on foot--because it looks like the numbers keep increasing.

This is a good observation. Since ADA passed in 1990, there has been a tremendous opening up of physical access for the disabled. People who were pretty much homebound now have ways to get out and live independently. Thus the appearance of scooter and power chair companies. This has caused unexpected consequences, such as the need for adequate transport of the disabled on Disney buses. I believe Disney wants the disabled tourist dollars and the disabled and their families have responded in droves. It's all good. But there are growing pains that you and I see. I truly believe Disney is working on its future with increased transport for the disabled in mind.

 

[Looking4themouse]

I think you are confusing me with another poster - I am a born & raised New Yorker!

I absolutely see your point. I did think about that before posting, but I believe that if used as a limited measure for meeting time-specific overage needs rather than as the exclusive means of conveyance for a specific class of passenger, that it doesn't fall into the category of providing a separate but equal transportation option. I suppose that is open to individual interpretation, but by my own standard I think it's okay





I can't! I tell myself not to get sucked in, but I can't stay away!

I did accidentally mistake you for someone else, and realized it shortly after i posted, but figured it would still get my point acrossed anyways. Sorry bout that. oh and I can't help getting sucked into these things as well, they always get me, even though I try to avoid it. I worked for an IL center for years, so for me, it is usually the lack of people first language that gets me sucked in, though I'm sure for the most part unintentonal, it always makes me feel like my head is going to explode.

 

[luckyprincess]

Your other post said you weren't sure she and her family was doing this any more. There will always be people who try foolish things once or twice and then realize their foolishness. This applies to the "Great Myth of Handicap Perks." Yeah, it's sorta fun to ride instead of walk. But people dart out of nowhere, stop in front of you, you can't converse with your group because you are 3 feet lower than them. If you looked up to see them, that's when you might drive into someone. So no small talk. Parades and fireworks are just about a disaster, even in the designated areas. Your body gets tired of the same position for hours on end. You can't go very fast and you realize very soon that you could make much more progress if you got out and walked. You get put in the very last row at all the shows, and in the stores it's hard to go down the aisles with people already there, so you back up alot and (oops) you bang into displays. Then people look at you for the wrong reasons. Same bad looks at the bus and monorail. You feel like you should be wearing a big sign that says "I'm Sorry!"

So I think the number of able-bodied people that rent medical scooters is negligible. Why put people who do have a medical need through that medical sign-off hoop. People like grandpa who is OK but has old-age heart ailments. Or an RA person with a flare-up. If you run the numbers you are thinking of making tons of people go through something for the sake of a very minimal few. It's a huge waste of $$ and resources for what benefit? For proof to the able-bodied the you qualify for the scooter rental? You don't need proof of sobriety to get in a car and drive, you go with the presumption that the person driving is sober. So why does anyone need to prove physical requirements to rent a scooter?

No, she does it still. I said I don't know if Disney puts them ahead of the standby line still.
RA is a medical issue. Heart ailments are also a medical issue, due to old age or not. Both things can get a note from a Dr.
You may not need proof of sobriety to get in the car, but you had better be sober if you are stopped and checked. So if you are asking to cover everyone in a scooter under the Disability act of America - which is saying that they all qualify to receive the protection afforded to people with a medical condition/disability - then you should indeed have to prove that. The woman I know that does this has plenty of money so doesn't care about the cost. She has pics of parades and the view seems ok - she talks to her family while scooting, goes on rides, as I said before, doesn't seem to care about the view since she always gets the scooter. She doesn't find it to be a waste of time or money because it makes getting around WDW easier for her even though her problem is just the dislike of exercise/walking. And from the many posts here from people overhearing people raving about how great it was to be on a scooter so they could bypass things (I highly doubt that those that are in true need of it would be loudly raving about how awesome it is) it does happen often enough to be an abuse of the ADA. So that's why I think it should have to be proven with medical documentation.

 

[maxiesmom]

I also have a great solution to the bus situation if you don't want to wait.

Rent a car.

Good point. I think people forget that they don't HAVE to use the busses. They don't suit every family and every need. Or to make it even more simple, on the nights the lines for the busses are long, walk right over to the taxi stand. There are usually quite a few of them waiting for a fare.

You don't have to ride a Disney bus if they are not your cup of tea.

 

[bartleby1]

I really do hope that some of you who believe that scooters are such a great "perk" never are unfortunate enough to have to use one. I have seen first hand how difficult it is to drive one of those through the crowds in the parks (my mom has rented one in the past). I don't know why anyone would opt to rent one if it wasn't needed. They are expensive and not "fun" in any way. Just try to get down main street after wishes while riding one of those! Gift stores and restaurants are nearly impossible to navigate. The perk of getting loaded onto the bus first certainly does not outweigh the challenges faced by using the scooter all day. Sure, it might look like a relief to not have to walk all the miles when you are hot, tired, and your feet are aching, but I'll take my tired feet over using a scooter ANY day. And, quite frankly, I'd much rather wait an extra bus or two with my tired aching feet than get loaded first on a scooter.

Actually, my mom didn't even rent this past trip because it is such a hassle to maneuver around the park. She'd rather put up with the swelling and pain in her knee than to drive a scooter. They are not fun to deal with! Plus, the cost to rent in the parks is $50 per day. So, for our 10 day vacation it would have cost her $500 extra to rent! I know you can rent from places offsite for cheaper, but then you deal with the bus issue of getting it to and from the parks and people glaring and commenting about you getting on to the bus first. Perhaps if disney rented them for a more reasonable cost, less people would need to rent from offsite which would put less strain on the bus system.

 

[leebee]

Can I just add that I am glad the moderators haven't locked this thread? Yes, we've had some heated statements, but nothing seems pointedly, personally nasty or vindictive (to me... sorry if I am instead being insensitive). This is a discussion forum, and I think we are having some valid discussions here. Unfortunately we have hijacked JerseyJanice's original intent, but the bus transport issue was part of her initial observations!

 

[JerseyJanice]

But if Walt Disney World were to expand capacity for transporting Guests in wheelchairs/ECVs, that would be giving them (us) preferential treatment - and that's not reasonable, either.

Yeah, but if the ratio of guests using mobility devices becomes significantly more than the current two spots per bus, then how is preferential to accommodate more of them? I don't see it as preferential, but efficient.

On the whole I don't believe in segregating people with disabilities from everyone else, but if that's what it takes to accommodate the majority of guests, that's an option that may have to be considered.

I posted what I thought were some interesting observations about things on our recent trip. I should have left out the scooter comments entirely because that's all the thread has devolved into, but since it has, there are a couple of other comments I want to make.

One is that I had my ankle bashed into by a scooter while I was standing on the curb in Main Street waiting for my group to get back together. The young man driving it wasn't the user of the scooter. She was an older woman with a cane, walking with the rest of the family. He apologized as best he could as he apparently didn't know much English. I don't hold a grudge against all scooter users because this kid injured me, but after that experience--as well as reading many of the posts on this thread--it's pretty obvious that there are many people who are renting scooters strictly at Disney World.

If Disney is modeling its accommodations for mobility device users based on the numbers of people who use them all the time, its figures can't be accurate. There are several people who stated on this thread that they or their family members only use scooters at WDW--the amount of walking, the Florida heat, etc. And that's fine, but if that's what a lot of people are doing, then we all have to be accommodated.

The argument IMO should be about that, and not about how lucky most of us are for not needing to use scooters. Believe me, I realize the day may come when I will need to use one in order to enjoy Disney so I don't begrudge anyone that right.

 

[maxiesmom]

No, she does it still. I said I don't know if Disney puts them ahead of the standby line still.
RA is a medical issue. Heart ailments are also a medical issue, due to old age or not. Both things can get a note from a Dr.
You may not need proof of sobriety to get in the car, but you had better be sober if you are stopped and checked. So if you are asking to cover everyone in a scooter under the Disability act of America - which is saying that they all qualify to receive the protection afforded to people with a medical condition/disability - then you should indeed have to prove that. The woman I know that does this has plenty of money so doesn't care about the cost. She has pics of parades and the view seems ok - she talks to her family while scooting, goes on rides, as I said before, doesn't seem to care about the view since she always gets the scooter. She doesn't find it to be a waste of time or money because it makes getting around WDW easier for her even though her problem is just the dislike of exercise/walking. And from the many posts here from people overhearing people raving about how great it was to be on a scooter so they could bypass things (I highly doubt that those that are in true need of it would be loudly raving about how awesome it is) it does happen often enough to be an abuse of the ADA. So that's why I think it should have to be proven with medical documentation.

I have to say I am glad it is not up to you. If so, we would have been in big trouble a few years back when my sister threw her back out the night before flying to WDW. She spent a couple days in a wheelchair. I'm glad she didn't have to go to the added expense of seeing a doctor and getting a note, to wave around and "prove" she needed a chair.

Also, think about this: How easy would it be to fake a doctor's note? Pretty darn easy. Unless you made every doctor in the world use the same exact form, and they had some sort of watermark on them so they couldn't be forged. There would also be a huge market for fake notes on E-Bay and Craigs's List.

 

[luckyprincess]

When ever this subject comes up, someone always knows someone who is supposedly abusing the system, (but as always everyone gets tarred with the same brush) where is your proof, not saying I dont believe you, but no one, only the person who is using said transport really knows if they need it or not, so for the sake of possible abusers you would deny the truly needy, nice

My proof? I know them - have known them for 8 years - I know she always gets a scooter every single time she goes here or anywhere else where there is a lot of walking. And I know she only uses it due to the fact that she doesn't like to walk, is out of shape, and finds she can cover more ground in a scooter and likes the fact that she can bring her entire family (hubby, kids, grandkids) with her to the bypass line (not sure if they still have bypass lines) and other places.

And don't put words in my mouth - what exactly would I deny the TRULY needy of? What exactly?? To have to give your medical note to the scooter rental place? If you ARE the truly needy that need a medical device than you would have documentation of that. So no, no truly needy person would be denied anything.

 

[Gary M]

I go to WDW three or four times a year and ran 5 miles a day six days a week and one morning I woke up here at home and my legs were like jello and I felt so weak.I was ONLY 35 after all what could be wrong? I found out by the end of that week I had MS. I wondered how I would ever finish raising my three children and take them places like we were used to doing and a friend of mine suggested a "scooter" so I learned to drive one here at home and then had to make a decsion did I want to just stay home the rest of my life or get out and go like my family was used to? so I use a scooter and I go to WDW and we still have a blast. The bus drivers are wonderful and two scooters actually take 6 to 8 seats depends on the bus. Thank goodness for the wonderful helpful bus drivers and people who want to help us.

I think the problem with the scooters are the extended families and friends that board the bus. I have seen 8 to 10 people board with the scooter user. Many times they pull up to the bus stop with their many followers, after people have waiting for sometime. They all pile on first and the seats are taken. I'm getting older and can appreciate people having to use scooters and am glad they can enjoy WDW.

 

[triplejen]

I can't help getting sucked into these things as well, they always get me, even though I try to avoid it. I worked for an IL center for years, so for me, it is usually the lack of people first language that gets me sucked in, though I'm sure for the most part unintentonal, it always makes me feel like my head is going to explode.

By the lack of people-first language, you mean people posting about "wheelchair people" rather than saying "person using a wheelchair," right? That bugs me too.

 

[Suellen]

Two arguments I see here that don't sit well with me:

1. The scooter gets unloaded last ~ so that means we still waited longer than an able bodied person to get back to the resort. Not if the able bodied person is still standing at the bus stop at Magic Kingdom waiting for the bus to come back.

2. I still keep seeing the 'well it works out as fair in the end because I waited longer to get on rides earlier in the day'. I am confused as to why someone waiting longer for something else, someplace else now makes it "even" by cutting a line of people who may have already been waiting through several bus cycles.

These two arguments do nothing to explain why it is 'fair'.

Personally I don't mind waiting for a scooter to be loaded. I DO however think that it should be the scooter person and 1, maybe 2 other people. Yeah we all want to ride with our entire family (be it 1 other person or 20 other people) but I can say that even our small family of four have split up before. If one and a kid can get on the bus or 1 and the two kids then we will do it and meet up back at the resort.

Also last time we were at AKL I meet a lovely gentleman in the hot tub who had a scooter (scooter obviously not in the tub but parked along side) who was more than happy to tell me that having a scooter in the parks was wonderful. How he didn't have to wait in lines and got to go directly to the front of all lines. I thought it was odd because I always read here than people say that is not true... but he seemed more than happy to tell me that it IS true. The only reason we talked about it is because I had my dad coming the next day who I thought would get a scooter (turned out he wanted to walk) and if he would be able to wait with all of us or we would be separated. So he was happy to share that front of the line access is granted and it was especially helpful on rides like Soarin.

So I don't know if he was truth telling or not since we didn't end up getting a scooter though Dad really, really needed it.

 

[Suellen]

Also, think about this: How easy would it be to fake a doctor's note? Pretty darn easy. Unless you made every doctor in the world use the same exact form, and they had some sort of watermark on them so they couldn't be forged. There would also be a huge market for fake notes on E-Bay and Craigs's List.

Actually no. It would not be easy to forge. There would be no need for a new watermarked form to be invented because all physicians already have such a thing. It is called a prescription pad. It would be quite easy for a physician to write short note on a prescription pad.

Not that I am advocating the need of such a thing... just your argument doesn't stand up.

 

[Piper]

Also last time we were at AKL I meet a lovely gentleman in the hot tub who had a scooter (scooter obviously not in the tub but parked along side) who was more than happy to tell me that having a scooter in the parks was wonderful. How he didn't have to wait in lines and got to go directly to the front of all lines. I thought it was odd because I always read here than people say that is not true... but he seemed more than happy to tell me that it IS true. The only reason we talked about it is because I had my dad coming the next day who I thought would get a scooter (turned out he wanted to walk) and if he would be able to wait with all of us or we would be separated. So he was happy to share that front of the line access is granted and it was especially helpful on rides like Soarin.

So I don't know if he was truth telling or not since we didn't end up getting a scooter though Dad really, really needed it.

Wow! I wish I knew that guy's secret because I have my own scooter, have been to WDW many times, have Lupus, Neurofibromatosis, Type I, was diagnosed with RA at the age of 12, so have a lot of degeneration (especially in my spine) and had a stroke a few months ago. I still don't get to go to the front of the lines--in fact, I often have to wait longer to get on because of other HC people in line before me or the fact that there is just 1 HC car per ride.

 

[twinboysmom]

I don't think I offended anyone earlier so I will try again to make another comment without offending anyone. I am glad that people with mobility issues and health issues can go to Disney and have a wonderful time. As for the "mythical abusers", yes they do exist. I mentioned during my previous post my bil jokingly mentioned renting a scooter to cut the lines like so and so and so and so. Unfortunately, I know these people, they're not mythical. I even google searched this topic and found it easily so there are people doing this. The first one I saw and forgive me, I don't know how to post direct links was

Idiotbrain.com/dont-wait-in....lines I would invite all who don't think this exists to search this site among others. I personally think anyone who does this is an idiot and it seemed the appropriate place for this suggestion.

We have almost quit using WDW busses. Not so much for the ECV issue although the 8 plus people I have seen get on as well is a bit annoying but for other issues. I don't have the perfect solution for this issue. I would invite others to drive your own vehicle or rent a car if this bothers you. Then you won't encounter it and won't upset you on your next trip.

 

[free2div]

QUOTE FROM PREVIOUS POSTER>>"But honestly, why not focus out attention where it belongs - on the company offering the transportation as a benefit for all on-property guests? It is up to Disney to make sure the transportation guests are paying for is able to reasonably accommodate everyone."

Transportation at Disney is a Perk..people do not pay for this service..so if you dont like the transportation Disney provides quit whining and rent a car ...drive your own..or take a cab.

 

[triplejen]

Transportation at Disney is a Perk..people do not pay for this service..so if you dont like the transportation Disney provides quit whining and rent a car ...drive your own..or take a cab.

People staying on-property are paying for the service, just as they are paying for the use of towels in their bathrooms, a bed to sleep in, air conditioning in their rooms, access to extra magic hours and so on. The WDW buses are one of the paid-for benefits of staying on property.

It is unreasonable to suggest that someone choosing to stay on-property should need to rent a car because of a scarcity imposed by the company providing the service - just as it would be unreasonable to suggest that people pack their own bath towels because WDW was failing to provide a sufficient number in the resort rooms. The problem in both cases is with the company providing the service.

 

[POOHsie]

... And from the many posts here from people overhearing people raving about how great it was to be on a scooter so they could bypass things (I highly doubt that those that are in true need of it would be loudly raving about how awesome it is) it does happen often enough to be an abuse of the ADA. So that's why I think it should have to be proven with medical documentation.

I haven't read a single post from someone who was fit who used a scooter to bypass things. It's always a third party overhearing a supposed conversation. It's not to be believed. It's strictly soap opera stuff. Urban Legend territory.

The idea about buses loading scooters isn't about ADA protection of the disabled, it's about access to the buses. The laws in place don't require bus drivers to have you show papers to load your scooter, the law says you must load the scooter if space is available. So in our case, the Disney bus driver pulls up, sees 2 scooters, has 2 scooter spots open. Loads scooters. Simple.

Write your Congressman, I am sure he/she will be really enthused to promote your proposal and its positive impact on the disabled and those with temporary medical conditions.

 

[maxiesmom]

Actually no. It would not be easy to forge. There would be no need for a new watermarked form to be invented because all physicians already have such a thing. It is called a prescription pad. It would be quite easy for a physician to write short note on a prescription pad.

Not that I am advocating the need of such a thing... just your argument doesn't stand up.

All doctors do not write the same. Some of those perscriptions, you can hardly read. You don't think they would be easy to forge? Not to mention I cannot ever seeing the USA making it a law that you have to have a perscription to use a scooter/wheelchair.It would be a huge step backwards for ADA law. And that is what it would take to make a perscription an offical scooter rental form.

 

[maxiesmom]

People staying on-property are paying for the service, just as they are paying for the use of towels in their bathrooms, a bed to sleep in, air conditioning in their rooms, access to extra magic hours and so on. The WDW buses are one of the paid-for benefits of staying on property.

It is unreasonable to suggest that someone choosing to stay on-property should need to rent a car because of a scarcity imposed by the company providing the service - just as it would be unreasonable to suggest that people pack their own bath towels because WDW was failing to provide a sufficient number in the resort rooms. The problem in both cases is with the company providing the service.

But you don't HAVE to use the Disney busses. They are a perk, but not one that is forced on you. You are free to use or not use that perk, as suits you.

A rental car is just a suggestion for those who do not like the way the busses operate. Everyone is free to choose for themselves if they want to rent a car or deal with the busses the way they are. And I would call the busses many things, but scarce is not one of them.

And I have read many times posts from people who do bring their own towels. And sheets, and pillows.....