Just back from WDW, now contemplating DVC...need help.

[tjkraz]

I think what I need are the hard numbers based on the $86/pt price, including all costs...

The problem is that there is no de facto formula to use.

Probably the easiest is to take the $86 per point and divide it by the number of years remaining (47), and add that number to the annual dues. That's your per-point cost for a single year.

Example:

$86 / 47 = 1.83 + 3.94 = $5.77 per point

Then it becomes a question of when and where points are used. A studio room at SSR on a weekday in September costs 11 points. At $5.77 per point, the DVC cost using these forumlas would be $63.47 per night. The Rack Rate for that same night, including tax, is $302. The DVC member cost is about 21% of what a cash guest may pay.

DVC Studio rooms are basically the same as a standard guest room at any of the Deluxes, give or take a few square feet.

For that same period, a One Bedroom is 20 points (or $115 to a DVC member) vs. the cash rate of $450.

That's a simplistic way to run the numbers.

Another approach would be to calculate a breakeven point--determining how long it will take until your initial cash outlay plus annual dues will equal the amount you would have spent if paying cash for the same accommodations.

In other post you mentioned booking packages. In most cases, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll actually save money with Disney's packages. In fact, the only way for cash guests to buy the Dining Plan is to buy a package, and you are normally required to pay the Rack Rate for the room (and buy tickets from Disney, too.) DVC members get the dining plan at its face value without having to buy anything extra.

Where you CAN potentially save money as a cash guest is by traveling when special incentives are offered like the recent "free dining" offer. The only problem there is that you're letting Disney determine your travel dates, and you're also betting that the forthcoming incentive will actually appeal to you. These types of incentives are designed to attract new business. As such it's in Disney's best interest to keep their dates and makeup changing.

The "free dining" has run for the past two years. I may very well be wrong on this, but I'll be quite surprised if it's offered again in 2007 on roughly the same dates and with the same terms.

 

[Disney Doll]

We bought in 1997 and the price was $62.75 a point. At the time it was a choice between OKW and BWV. We chose OKW for the 11 month window and the lower maintenance fees and have never regretted anything except that we didn't buy in 1991.

We did exactly the same thing!!!! We were there on our honeymoon in 1991. I wanted to buy, DH thought we should buy a house first...pardon me, Mr.Practical!!!!

Anyhow, we bought our first contract through DVC in 1997 at OKW. We loved it. DH is in real estate and he researched it every which way from Sunday... basically, what he determined is that if you plan to go to WDW at least every other year, it is a worthwhile purchase. Doesn't mean it'll save you money, but it probably won't cost you any more money, especially if you historically stay in moderates or deluxes, which we always did. If you historically stay in Values, then DVC will probably be more expensive, but it also offers a better "class" of vacation.

In 2002, we bought a 2nd contract through The Timeshare Store(TTS) resaler, again at OKW. Had no difficulty with that transaction...they were great. If you need financing, you would probably need to buy through DVC. If you have an alternative means of financing, you could go through TTS and probably do OK, although you have to get by Right Of First Refusal (ROFR)which DVC can exercise any time one of it's contracts is put on the market for sale. Basically, they get to look at it first and see if they want to buy it back. If they do, you lose. If they don't, you get to try and buy it. When we bought our first contract, we used Disney financing and took out a 10 year loan with the thought process that it had the smallest monthly payment, so in months when money was a bit "tight" all we had to pay was that smallish amount, but in months where we had a little extra money, we could pay more toward it without penalty, thus paying it off faster. That is, in fact, what we did, and we had the 10 year loan paid off in about 3.5 years. The 2nd resale contract we paid cash for, using some of the $$ my late in-laws had left us. I have heard of people using home equity lines to finance DVC, and getting a bit of a tax benefit. I have heard of people refinancing their primary residence and adding additional $$ to the mortgage to pay for DVC. I have heard of people charging it to their Disney VISA to get the rewards dollars and then using a home equity line to pay that off, again getting the tax benefit.

As far as resale, it has held its value thus far. We paid $62-something per point in 1997, and now resales for OKW are in the $80-something/point range.

I wil emphatically state that it is not a money-making investment, but it is an investment in fmaily. We have enjoyed our DVC vacations more than anything. The pace is more relaxed, because you know that since you are an owner, you will be back. We don't feel the need to "commando tour" and our pace is much more relaxed. The units themselves are beautiful. A 1BR is spacious, with a full kitchen, a full laundry(which we love), a beautiful master BR area....it can't be beat.

We have never regretted our decision to buy...not for a minute. If necessary, I would do without a lot of things in order to keep my DVC.

As far as where to buy...I wil always advise "buy where you want to stay". Your home resort is important because it gives you an 11 month window booking advantage. Any resort other than your home resort only gives you a 7 month booking advantage. If Beach Club is where you love, then buy at Beach Club. If you would not care where you stay,a nd could be happy at SSR, then buy there. Owning at SSR doesn't mean you'd never be able to stay in any of the other properties...really that depends on when you travel and so forth.

 

[Mississippian]

Brings me to my next questions...we liked SSR, but have never stayed there. I am not sure I wouldn't prefer Boardwalk or Beach Club. The woman indicated that SSR was all that was available, is it possible to get in at one of the other resorts? Should we stay at each before deciding? Is renting points the only way to stay at SSR, or at the BCV?

If your guide tells you that you can only buy SSR, they are not being entirely honest with you. People are buying OKW with virtually no wait, and many are getting BWV and I think VWL after a minimal wait.

BWV and BCV are within an easy walk of EPCOT, which is nice. VWL has easy access to the MK as well as the Contemporary. The EPCOT resorts have great dining options.

The choice is yours. Dining and park proximity isn't important to many people. But don't let anyone lie to you about other resorts not being available.

 

[rinkwide]

...it still seems like it will be more money going thru DVC (then) renting points...

In your case I'd say renting is absolutely the way to go unless you're one of the following: a) a worry wart, b) a control freak, c) a suspicious type, d) a nervous nelly or e) incontinent (that last one might not apply, it's just a requirement that I have for my own personal renters).

 

[cmkallen]

I did speak with the DVC rep this evening, and got some more numbers to ponder. At this point, it still seems like it will be more money going thru DVC then either renting points, or doing a package at one of the Deluxe resorts (granted, the rooms are not quite apples to apples). Right now, I am leaning against it, at least until we get some bills paid off, but I still have a couple days to think about it before the incentives are no longer valid.

I did ask about buying into BWC or BCV, and the rep insists that they are sold out and not available.

I was a non member last week. I told Disney that I realy wanted BWV. They tried hard to push me to Saratogo. I told them I had two offers already out there at BWV. She put me on a non member wait list. It took one day for it to come through (250 points with all 2006 available). They also made sure my two offers did not make it through ROFR (they were less then $83per point for BWV so they probally would't have got by anyways). I was able to make a ressie the same day I bought.

 

[asaj]

I was a non member last week. I told Disney that I realy wanted BWV. They tried hard to push me to Saratogo. I told them I had two offers already out there at BWV. She put me on a non member wait list. It took one day for it to come through (250 points with all 2006 available). They also made sure my two offers did not make it through ROFR (they were less then $83per point for BWV so they probally would't have got by anyways). I was able to make a ressie the same day I bought.

Very good to know. I do think I'd prefer BCV, mainly for it's location. I assume the rooms are pretty much the same as SSR. That said, I doubt I'll be doing it. I ran some numbers last night, and with the discounted rate (86/pt), dues, and discounted park tix, it'd run about $3800/year for a week in a one bedroom. That's not bad, but I can rent the same thing for about $3k, or I could stay in a regular room at BC for about $3100 with tix. Granted, it'd cost $5200 to stay in a one bedroom, so it does seem as though being a member would save some money, although I would never pay the 5k to stay in a one bedroom, I'd just take a normal room, or even drop to a moderate.

So, I'll probably look into the renting, unless something changes my mind in the next couple days.

I assume I cannot get the friends and family discount on the BCV, is that correct?

Thanks again.

 

[tjkraz]

I ran some numbers last night, and with the discounted rate (86/pt), dues, and discounted park tix, it'd run about $3800/year for a week in a one bedroom. That's not bad, but I can rent the same thing for about $3k...

I'd love to hear about the scenario in which renting costs LESS than buying...

 

[asaj]

I'd love to hear about the scenario in which renting costs LESS than buying...

Well, not very scientific, but I was just looking at it on a per year basis. I understand that after the initial purchase is paid off, owning is much cheaper, but I was running numbers based on the first 10 years, on the numbers Disney gave me. I do not have them right in front of me, but should be able to ballpark it...

I believe the monthly payment on the purchase was about $215, plus roughly $60 for the dues. That is $275/month X 12 months = $3300/year. I can rent the points at $10 each, and I believe I needed 198 or so for a week in a one bedroom, for a total of $1980. The park tix cost a little more if you are not getting the DVC discount, but it still comes out to be less.

Again, just looking at it from a year's expense. I know that in the long run buying would be cheaper, and that the price is fixed (aside from the dues).

If you see a big flaw in my thinking, please let me know.

Andy

 

[Dina]

I think if you really want to buy DVC to save money-- my thinking is that its not for you. It's not going to save you money because the maintenance fees can cost as much as a week at a value with the AAA rate. When DH and I first considered the DVC, that is what we couldn't wrap our heads around-- it wasn't going to save us any money. Then we started taking more and more trips (twice a year usually), and we got tired of staying at moderates and values. We needed more space, we wanted to feel like we were vacationing in a home. Our son's want to sleep late, and we can't handle more than 2 or 3 hours in a park, we wanted to feel like we had somewhere to retreat to where we can relax with a living room and a kitchen-- that's when we understood the appeal of the DVC. We took a tour of SSR and were sold immediately (the golf course also helped). Surprisingly, when we bought, we didn't run numbers to see if it would save us money in the long run, we didn't even consider that-- we just couldn't keep taking trips with our kids in a one room hotel room. It was too hectic. I, like others who have posted, truly believe if you are content vacationing in the moderates and values, and do not see yourself wanting to travel to Disney consistently for the next @ 40 years--the DVC isn't for you. My husband and I have taken trips without the kids already (long weekends here and there), and we know we will want to keep vacationing in WDW even after the kids have lost interest in vacationing with their parents. It's not that we have so much money that we don't care about saving money, believe me that couldn't be farther from the truth, its just that our Disney vacations are a priority for our family (its really the one thing we really indulge in, and we weren't enjoying our stays at the values any more-- we were sick of food courts etc. Does that make sense??

 

[asaj]

I think if you really want to buy DVC to save money-- my thinking is that its not for you. It's not going to save you money because the maintenance fees can cost as much as a week at a value with the AAA rate. When DH and I first considered the DVC, that is what we couldn't wrap our heads around-- it wasn't going to save us any money. Then we started taking more and more trips (twice a year usually), and we got tired of staying at moderates and values. We needed more space, we wanted to feel like we were vacationing in a home. Our son's want to sleep late, and we can't handle more than 2 or 3 hours in a park, we wanted to feel like we had somewhere to retreat to where we can relax with a living room and a kitchen-- that's when we understood the appeal of the DVC. We took a tour of SSR and were sold immediately (the golf course also helped). Surprisingly, when we bought, we didn't run numbers to see if it would save us money in the long run, we didn't even consider that-- we just couldn't keep taking trips with our kids in a one room hotel room. It was too hectic. I, like others who have posted, truly believe if you are content vacationing in the moderates and values, and do not see yourself wanting to travel to Disney consistently for the next @ 40 years--the DVC isn't for you. My husband and I have taken trips without the kids already (long weekends here and there), and we know we will want to keep vacationing in WDW even after the kids have lost interest in vacationing with their parents. It's not that we have so much money that we don't care about saving money, believe me that couldn't be farther from the truth, its just that our Disney vacations are a priority for our family (its really the one thing we really indulge in, and we weren't enjoying our stays at the values any more-- we were sick of food courts etc. Does that make sense??

Yep, makes lots of sense. We tried our first value resort this last week, and it was not for us. We will stay in mods or deluxes from this point forward. We did really appreciate the kitchens and laundry machines in the DVC accomodations, and that's kind of what got us started on the whole thing.

 

[tjkraz]

If you see a big flaw in my thinking, please let me know.

Well, I do think your logic is inherently flawed in that you're not looking at the big picture. After those 10 years of $3300 annually, you then have nearly FORTY more at about $700 annually ($60 x 12), in 2006 dollars, of course.

You can't have your provebial cake and eat it too.

The question is whether you see 30-40 years of Disney trips in your future. Sure, you can talk yourself out of it by rationalizing that your expenses will actually go up in the first 10 years. Now do a calculation of how much you will spend cash vs DVC over the next 40+ years if your habits remain consistent.

There are a lot of factors involved in making such a commitment. Based upon many of the things you've said, I suspect you are probably making the right decision in not buying. The fact that you are ambivalent over whether you will be making annual trips to WDW over the next several decades takes you out of the DVC target market, IMO.

 

[asaj]

Well, I do think your logic is inherently flawed in that you're not looking at the big picture. After those 10 years of $3300 annually, you then have nearly FORTY more at about $700 annually ($60 x 12), in 2006 dollars, of course.

You can't have your provebial cake and eat it too.

The question is whether you see 30-40 years of Disney trips in your future. Sure, you can talk yourself out of it by rationalizing that your expenses will actually go up in the first 10 years. Now do a calculation of how much you will spend cash vs DVC over the next 40+ years if your habits remain consistent.

There are a lot of factors involved in making such a commitment. Based upon many of the things you've said, I suspect you are probably making the right decision in not buying. The fact that you are ambivalent over whether you will be making annual trips to WDW over the next several decades takes you out of the DVC target market, IMO.

Agreed. If I knew for sure that we'd want to go every single year, or close to it, then I'd probably buy in. Just not sure what we'll want to do after our daughter is older.

Thanks again for all of the advice.

 

[Parkhopper13]

I would be more than happy to share my spreadsheets with you if you are having trouble working out the financial side of things. Obviously, DVC is not for everybody, but don't forget about potential grandchildren in the futue and the ability to rent points the years you do not want to go. Even if you plan on traveling every other year 15+ years in the future, the savings from inflation can be tremendous. Like I said, if you'd like my spreadsheets, they account for inflation, investment return, taxes, and cost of any resort you plug in. Send me a PM and I'll send them to you. Good luck on your decision.

 

[Kris517]

Like the other poster, I too not regret buying sooner as we looked in to DVC YEARS ago and passed up due to the thinking of not wanting to pay dues, thinking there will always be a Disney resort discount etc....

Well, I remember when my DH and I used to stay at Coronado for $79 a nite...now you are lucky to get a value resort at that price. We are so addicted to the size of the rooms at DVC as now we have children and you can't beat having a kitchen (what a lifesaver). It is so nice to be able to sit in the living room or out on the porch and have the children sleeping in a separate room!

DVC has been great for us. Before, we never could have afforded to stay at the Beach Club or Boardwalk and now we can. That said, we go to Disney a minimum of three times a year and we recently added on more points9for the second time).

Keep in mind each resort has it's own percs and feeling to it. Yes it is nice to be able to walk to Epcot from the Beach Club but I love the feeling of the Wilderness Lodge at Christmas....or the peaceful quiet of Saratoga.

We bought in to SSR due to the percs that Disney is offering and the contract has "more years" on it than the original resorts. So far, we have never had an issue of making reservations at any other resort so the "home resort" issue has not been a problem yet (I hope never!)

Hope this helps!

Krista

 

[the who #3]

enhancement is a key word. i did spend a lot of money each of 11 years at wdw and inflation was, of course, a factor. as the years passed we have stayed off prop. 1 time and found that we were not pleased with that. one time was disney value pop, which we liked, but we like to have a little more luxury and found ourselves going back to akl, poly, and bc. these are much more pricey, but still a little crowded. with dvc we have the luxury and a lot more room. space is a very valuable commodity.

i, myself, am a grandmother who wants to stay as young as possible with my grandchildren. when i am too old to walk the parks and ride the rides, i will enjoy shopping, watching the fun, the shows, the fireworks, and who knows what else disney will come up with before then.

my youngest grandchild is almost 5, and she along with my grandson will always love having a great place to vacation. there are many other locations in our nation and others to use the dvc pts.

if at some time in my life i can not afford to keep my dvc, i can give it to my daughter or grandchildren, or sell it. i have been told that it is not that difficult to resale.

if i change my way of thinking in the years to come, i will post again at that time. as of now, i think i am saving money, once again space is a valuable commodity. i don't think i can afford 2 rooms at a luxury resort.

 

[asaj]

I am still pondering things, but I think I have a plan of action. We have already decided to go back to WDW next year, so I think I will try to rent a week at BCV. If I was to join DVC, I think it'd be at BCV, as opposed to SSR. So, if we like it when we rent, then I will see if I can purchase through Disney, if not, I'll go the resale route. That gives us a year to think about it, and to get some things paid off, and also, we get to try the resort out before making any decisions. We stayed at BC a few years back, and liked it a lot, but that was just in a regular room.

So, I think we will test the waters, think about it a little longer, and then decide. You all have raised some great points about being able to use the vacations when my daughter has kids of her own, and so forth. I also think my wife and I will continue to go, so it probably would not go unused. Just not 100% sold on SSR, I think we'd like BCV better.

Thanks again,
Andy

 

[byoung]

We bought and will keep going 3 or 4 times a year. This year got 19 nights in a studio with our 200 points with points left over.

 

[Granny]

I am still pondering things, but I think I have a plan of action. We have already decided to go back to WDW next year, so I think I will try to rent a week at BCV. If I was to join DVC, I think it'd be at BCV, as opposed to SSR. So, if we like it when we rent, then I will see if I can purchase through Disney, if not, I'll go the resale route. That gives us a year to think about it, and to get some things paid off, and also, we get to try the resort out before making any decisions.

I think this is an excellent plan of action for you. It's a big purchase, and you want to have total confidence if you make it. I also like the idea of getting "some things paid off" as I do believe that DVC is a luxury purchase that should not stretch anyone too far.

Good luck!

 

[meghanet]

DVC will definitely save you money. When you break it down, right now at the $101 price per point and the time left on a SS membership each point is worth just over 6 dollars. With the $86 per point price it would be even less. So if you stay at OKW during a low season you would spend 8 points a night. That's $48 a night, which is less than you can ever get a value resort for. This includes the maintenance fees.

To my husband and I this was a big no brainer, especially given the fact that some people rent their points for $12 a point which would be twice what it is actually worth. (Basically if you rented out your points every year for $12 you'd double your money.) There's really no way to lose.

Also, realize you don't always have to spend them at WDW. It's actually less points to go to the beach. I sat down and looked at the last 3 years of travelling I've done and crunched the numbers (I just happend to have stayed at a lot of the resorts that are not Disney resorts that are a part of the DVC) and I would have saved so much if I had the membership. My only regret is not getting it sooner.

 

[tomandrobin]

If your child already loves Disney, more then likely will continue to Love Disney in the future. The one thing we have learned since joining DVC is that Disney isn't just for the kids. My wife and I just came back from a 5 day trip, kid free, for the Food and Wine Festival. Our kids are 13,15 and 21 and you should hear all the whinning when the wife and I go without them.

The point is, DVC is about family vacations, but its also about "you" vactions. You can bank points and go everyother year for exended vacation stays. You can go on short get away trips. The flexiblity DVC offers is great.

I would say buy where you want to stay, SSR, BWV, BCV, OKW or VWL. Buy if you plan on visting Disney once a year or more. Buy if you like staying in Moderate or Deluxe accomadations.

Don't buy if you don't see yourself going to Disney over and over. Don't buy if you plan on staying in value or off-site resorts.

Good luck in your decision!