Just Back/Finger ID a Scam?

[mikey13v]

WOWOWOW!

Maybe i can explain a little bit of these worries..

Finger Prints vs. Bioscan vs. Biometrics - The turnstyle machines have absolutely no capability to record your fingerprints. Have you ever even had your finger prints taken? They always wipe the sweat off your fingers first - if Disney truly did FINGER PRINTS - they would be so inaccurate that they would be of no use to the government, or any other "black market" there may be for finger prints. DOOO DEEE DOOO DOOO.... DOOO DEEE DOO DOOO.... :rolleyes

What the "Finger thing" does is measures sizes of your fingers, and assigns a "number" to the size that is recorded. This "number" is NOT 100% unique, and very possibly could match another person in WDW at any given time, assuming your bone structure is that similar to someone else. What BioMetrics DOES do is makes sure that the same person uses the ticket by keeping "random Joe" from buying "black market tickets" - ones used by someone else previously.

But I swapped tickets with my (insert person here - Generally speaking, there are a couple possibilities here.

• You may have purchased your tickets within the same transaction and/or used them within a close period of time. I'm not 100% sure on how exactly the linking works, but I do know for a fact that the Biometrics DOES take into account groups of people, and that people often don't sign their cards. Meaning yes, you can theoretically switch tickets with another member of your group and still get into the parks. The system is not designed to penalize people for grabbing the wrong ticket from mom, the group leader, or who-ever you are traveling with that happens to be holding the tickets. It is designed to stem the illegal re-sale of used tickets.
  
  
• Another possiblity is that Bio's are shut off due to a large line. Sometimes they shut them off temporarily to increase the flow into the parks during peak times. Other times CM's will just override the bio request by the touch of a button. It's actually quite simple.

But my passes keep demagnatizing from the aliens trying to read my biometrics - I assure you that your tickets demagnetizing are probably due to something a lot more simple that you may realize. Tickets becoming demagnetized are often due to them rubbing together, rubbing together with credit cards, magnetic strips from it and something else touching, being in close proximity to a cell phone, pager, or other electronic device with a magnetic field, even a phone that is off via the magnet in the phone's speaker, a purse magnet that keeps the purse closed, or so many other possiblities.

They checked my 30 year old ID for my AP, but my 20 year old friend just walked right in - This could be the CM's descretion, but is most likely due to something that the turnstile said. Sometimes the CM may be just overriding the Biometrics, or the CM could be overriding a demagnatized card. One reason requires and ID, the other just the press of a button. No big deal, they probably don't care about your age, how pissed off you look in your DMV photo, or any of that. They are just complying with what the turnstile screen on their side says.

I'm pissed off because it took me 20 minutes to get into the park after I chewed on my pass - I'm not going to lie on this one - a lot of times delays caused due to faulty tickets are more than likely your fault. These tickets have to be treated as a credit card, but also as something fragile. Although these tickets are VERY durable compared to the alternatives, having them near any magnetic source kills the code on the strip. Putting them in your mouth ( WHICH IS VERY...VERY DISGUSTING. The poor CM that has to touch your ticket, and 20 thousand other tickets feels the same way. Trust me, keep them OUT of your mouth, bra, or anywhere wet, sweaty, or smelly PLEASE! ), pockets, ect can kill them too. If the paper wrinkles, sometimes that can lose part of the code on the ticket, causing it to scan improperly. That, among many things can delay your park entrance. Keep them in a SAFE place in your wallet away from other cards, or keep them in the little sleeves disney gives you.


Did i miss anything?

You wrote about all these issues so "mater of factly" that it almost seems as if you must work in the credit card/admission ticket card manufacturing industry. Of coarse you may have a reliable source, an official report, or an article with sources that you can cite.

There sure seems to be a lot of ideas and opinions on these issues, and many of them make sense, but you can't rely on them. I personally like to hear these ideas and opinions, I think it can be helpful. When opinions are stated to be fact, and they turn out not to be, they are very unhelpful.

Disneys computer system controls so much information, and it seems that there is a lot of flexibility to allow CM's and managers to manipulate its protocols to accomadate guests in need of a fix. I believe that this flexibility of their system allows room for more errors as well. I have had experiences with my Key to the World card having incorrect admission on it, and by the rules of our package there should be no way possible that one card could have something different than another in our group, but it did.

My AP's seem to hold up really well, and I've never had the encoding on the card become damaged, but the Key to the World cards (hard plastic) seem to be much easier to damage. I've seen people take all the precautions to protect them and still have problems.

As far as the biometric scanners, I don't think that the truth of its operation will ever be made public. If people don't KNOW how to beat it, they may not try. It seems to be about as effective as the security bag checks; violators will get through, but they might be afraid to try.

 

[noodleknitter]

My mom had to show her ID 3 times last trip, as she was in an ECV and would get separated from us. She is 72 years old. I don't think she looked guilty of anything!

 

[Ted and Holly]

Although Disney might not release exactly how their particular solution works, hand geometry biometrics are not unique to WDW turnstiles.

If you are interested, some info can be found here:
http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/hand_geometry.html

And a prototype, full hand system here:
http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/hand_proto.html

As I said, I see more issues with people not knowing what to do than with the system itself.

With "security" being the buzzword, expect to see more identity verification technology popping up all over the place.

Ted

 

[TSR6]

You wrote about all these issues so "mater of factly" that it almost seems as if you must work in the credit card/admission ticket card manufacturing industry. Of coarse you may have a reliable source, an official report, or an article with sources that you can cite.

I am my own source, speaking from my knowledge and experiance with the system.

My AP's seem to hold up really well, and I've never had the encoding on the card become damaged, but the Key to the World cards (hard plastic) seem to be much easier to damage. I've seen people take all the precautions to protect them and still have problems.

True. The KTTW cards do seem to have a higher failure rate. More importantly is that they are much harder to replace than paper tickets. Paper tickets can be replaced at any Ticket Sales or Guest Relations location, where as the KTTW cards can only be replaced at a hotel's Guest Services desk.

 

[tink1978]

I didn't know that you had to sign them either....I went in January and they never said I had to. I did have a problem with the finger scan once, but I scanned it again and it worked....they never asked to see my ID or sign my card.

 

[HoustonMouseketeer]

I think Disney should implant RFID chips into everyone entering the parks. Then they could scan you as you walked throught the turnstyle.

Disney is just trying to keep honest people honest by the biometrics. Dishonest people will find a way to get through without paying.

 

[TexasAggie]

Another way to look at this is Disney is protecting you! What has happen to the sell of old tickets by people who say they have days left on their tickets that do not expire after a certain time. If I know that the tickets have been finger scanned by someone else, then my fingers scan should not work.

 

[#1_Donald_Duck_Fan]

I have to agree that the finger scan thing is very flawed. Also its complete BS if I pay for the ticket and there are still days on it and I want to give it to a friend or sell it on ebay if I wasn't able to come back down (yeah right me not go down to Disney ) I should be able to do it, I did pay the money after all. And how do they differ between mine and my DGF prints since we handle eachothers tickets over and over. So both our prints are all over those tickets

see ya
Mike

 

[NYDisGuy]

Another way to look at this is Disney is protecting you! What has happen to the sell of old tickets by people who say they have days left on their tickets that do not expire after a certain time. If I know that the tickets have been finger scanned by someone else, then my fingers scan should not work.

If they are tickets before January 2005 then they wont have the finger scan because it was never required. The system is flawed in that sense because if I have tickets from 2002 I can still sell it on ebay (used or not) because my finger structure was never recorded and the cm's wont id if there is an error because it has to do with the finger scan itself and not the card. It will be a good idea in 5-10 years when all the old cards are gone and they have a better and quicker biometric system.

 

[noodleknitter]

They don't look for prints on the tickets. That would be ridiculous. Didn't you actually read any of the thread about how they work?

 

[DebbieB]

I have to agree that the finger scan thing is very flawed. Also its complete BS if I pay for the ticket and there are still days on it and I want to give it to a friend or sell it on ebay if I wasn't able to come back down (yeah right me not go down to Disney ) I should be able to do it, I did pay the money after all. And how do they differ between mine and my DGF prints since we handle eachothers tickets over and over. So both our prints are all over those tickets

see ya
Mike

The price you paid for the ticket was with the condition that only you would use it for all the days. If the price was the same for all the days, then I would agree with you. But a 5 day base ticket is $212 and a 10 day base ticket is $223. You are getting 5 extra days for $11 but the condition is that only you will use them. If they let you use 5 days and your friend use 5 days another time, together you would pay $223 vs $424 you should have paid.

 

[byoung]

I'll try switching with Dw on next trip.

 

[jimmybop]

Also its complete BS if I pay for the ticket and there are still days on it and I want to give it to a friend or sell it on ebay if I wasn't able to come back down (yeah right me not go down to Disney ) I should be able to do it, I did pay the money after all.

If you look at the back of your tickets, the first word under the black bar is "Nontransferable" (along with other legal terms). When you buy a ticket and enter the parks you enter into a contract with Disney in how the tickets can be used.

 

[TSR6]

I think Disney should implant RFID chips into everyone entering the parks. Then they could scan you as you walked throught the turnstyle.

Bend over!

I have to agree that the finger scan thing is very flawed. Also its complete BS if I pay for the ticket and there are still days on it and I want to give it to a friend or sell it on ebay if I wasn't able to come back down (yeah right me not go down to Disney ) I should be able to do it, I did pay the money after all. And how do they differ between mine and my DGF prints since we handle eachothers tickets over and over. So both our prints are all over those tickets

see ya
Mike

They don't even look at finger prints at all. You put your ticket in the machine, then use the box to measure your fingers. Two complete sepperate processes.

And as far as being able to re-sell the days, it's not like that. When you purchased the tickets, it's like renting the use of a certain item for yourself. You can't just re-rent it out to other people. Tickets are Non-Transferable once they are used, due to Florida law that prohibits the re-sale of partially used event / theme park tickets. You purchased a certain amount of days of use, not a number of entries that can be re-sold.

If they are tickets before January 2005 then they wont have the finger scan because it was never required. The system is flawed in that sense because if I have tickets from 2002 I can still sell it on ebay (used or not) because my finger structure was never recorded and the cm's wont id if there is an error because it has to do with the finger scan itself and not the card. It will be a good idea in 5-10 years when all the old cards are gone and they have a better and quicker biometric system.

If you have used the tickets since 2002, or the first time they are used at WDW, they will record bio's onto those tickets. Even old ticket media will have bio's recorded on their next "first use."

 

[#1_Donald_Duck_Fan]

So all of you are fine with being out the money if you end up not using a day or so, say because your sick or whatnot. And you arn't renting the park your buy park entrance for the day there is a difference

 

[#1_Donald_Duck_Fan]

They don't look for prints on the tickets. That would be ridiculous. Didn't you actually read any of the thread about how they work?

Sorry I miss read some of the things I skimmed on the subject I don't really have alot of time to go through every thing on it right now I've had nonstop transplant appt. And please you don't need to get a attitude.

 

[NYDisGuy]

If you have used the tickets since 2002, or the first time they are used at WDW, they will record bio's onto those tickets. Even old ticket media will have bio's recorded on their next "first use."

The main thing they are looking for is the finger scan. If I was a complete stranger and took your ticket from 2003, and your name is John Smith and mine is something completley different, it wont matter. My finger will be registered to the card and that will be all that matters. The bio's mean nothing unless you try to use the card and the finger scans do not match, then they will ask for your id to make sure you are the original card owner. And to support what im saying from other posts on here, people using other peoples cards and getting in, obviousley a girl isnt a guy but the cm isnt checking for that.

 

[EjandMD]

So you mean to tell me that if you have season tickets to the Tampa Bay Bucks and you want to sell the third game to your friend and charge them "Face Value" (as to not scalp) you can't I don't know that doesn't sound right.

I agree with those who want to sell their tickets if they wish. Additionally, in law it's called caviet empter (buyer beware, I'm sure I slaughtered the phrase). If you want to buy them off of ebay and run the risk so be it.

I have always taken my ques from my cm friends who worked there, they were always able to tell me what was a crock and what was a legitimate concern.

 

[taximomfor4]

So all of you are fine with being out the money if you end up not using a day or so, say because your sick or whatnot. And you arn't renting the park your buy park entrance for the day there is a difference

Yes, I am fine being out the money if I end up not using a day or so...after the first few days, that "lost" day would only lose me about $2. If I got sick and hadd more days than one left, I might consider adding the No Expiration option for the next trip.

I figure, since I am buying WDW's ticket, I will abide by their rule. If I don't like their tickets or their rules, I won't go. Oh, and just adding that we were one of the families who had to show an ID when the scan didn't work.

 

[tjmw2727]

So you mean to tell me that if you have season tickets to the Tampa Bay Bucks and you want to sell the third game to your friend and charge them "Face Value" (as to not scalp) you can't I don't know that doesn't sound right.

I agree with those who want to sell their tickets if they wish. Additionally, in law it's called caviet empter (buyer beware, I'm sure I slaughtered the phrase). If you want to buy them off of ebay and run the risk so be it.

I have always taken my ques from my cm friends who worked there, they were always able to tell me what was a crock and what was a legitimate concern.

The difference is that if you buy tickets to a sporting event you are probably well aware of the possibility of a scam, your more careful and if you are scammed you don't expect the team to let you in anyway or reimburse you.

OTOH, That is exactly what people expected from Disney. Many families didn't understand that they weren't buying from a legitimate ticket seller and wanted recovery at the gates.

The other thing that would be impossible to determine on most of the MYW tickets is face value. If you sold the 9th or 10th day of a MYW ticket for more than $2 or $3.00 that could be considered scalping right?

TJ