Judge rules on Segway Fairness settlement

[tarkus]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/bu...-against-disney-but-permits-future-suits.html

 

[KYMickey]

Well, the judge did close to the right thing anyway. At least he threw out this stupid lawsuit, too bad he didn't ban any future lawsuits. I'm also very happy he threw out the proposed settlement because there was just to appease the people who were suing Disney in the first place!

Chalk one up for Disney and the American legal system.

 

[Expert_Glider]

Disability Rights Advocates for Technology (DRAFT) press release.


FEDERAL COURT TOSSES OUT DISNEY SETTLEMENT

Judge Opens Door to a Remedy for Disabled
Disability Rights Advocates Vow to Pursue Open Policy for Segways

Contact: Chris Black
Tel: 202 333 3853
Mobile: 202 302 4748
christine_black@msn.com

ORLANDO, FL. – In a striking victory for the disabled, a federal District Court judge tossed out a proposed settlement which would have banned personal Segway use forever in all Disney properties in the United States.

"This is a victory for disability rights and we are heartened by the court’s findings,’’ said Jerry Kerr, President of Disability Rights Advocates for Technology (www.draft.org), the non‐profit organization which organized opposition to the proposed ban. "But Disney’s policy on Segways still stands. We call on the Walt Disney Company to voluntarily change its policy and recognize the rights of disabled people to use the assistive device which best meets their needs.’’

US District Judge Gregory A. Presnell tossed out the proposed settlement after four months of deliberation after holding a two‐day fairness hearing on the proposed ban last June. DRAFT members and disabled war veterans were among those who testified against the settlement. In addition, the civil
rights division of the U.S. Justice Department and 23 state Attorneys General filed friend of the court briefs objecting to the settlement.

DRAFT did not bring the original law suit against the Walt Disney Company. DRAFT got involved when the original three plaintiffs agreed to a settlement which would have banned all personal Segway use in perpetuity in all Disney properties. Disney uses Segways for its own employees and for paid Segway
tours for park visitors but banned the use of private Segways ostensibly for safety reasons.

The Segway has found a loyal following among many disabled people. DRAFT has presented more than 350 Segways to military service members who suffered disabling injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last three years. One of those recipients, Major Daniel Gade, a former member of the White House
domestic policy staff who lost a leg in combat, testified at the fairness hearing.

Judge Presnell said the section of the federal Americans with Disabilities Act cited by the original plaintiffs was not sufficiently broad enough to expressly allow Segways but in his opinion he recognized that the important psychological advantages of a disabled person using a Segway which allows a user to stand upright instead of a wheelchair.

"This case is not about necessary accommodation,’’ said the ruling. "The real question, it seems, is the extent to which the ADA can (or should) promote equal treatment and human dignity by requiring acceptance of new technologies. As Major Gade and others testified, the Segway is quickly changing the way disabled Americans are perceived and treated in our society. The importance of this interest simply cannot be overlooked.’’

Judge Presnell left open the possibility that another law suit or action by another branch of government might be sufficient to overturn the Disney ban. The Justice Department is working on regulations which are expected to classify the Segway as a legitimate assistive device when used by the disabled to improve their mobility.

David Ferleger, lead counsel for DRAFT and a legal advocate for the disabled for more than 35 years, said the original lawsuit contained fatal flaws which could be addressed in another legal action.

"It is gratifying to see the court recognize the tremendous importance of technology to people with disabilities and to recognize that federal law specifically protects the dignity of disabled people,’’ said Ferleger.

David Ferlenger, the ADA counsel, can be reached at: Office 215 887 0123
Mobile: 215 498 1777

 

[tarkus]

Well, the judge did close to the right thing anyway. At least he threw out this stupid lawsuit, too bad he didn't ban any future lawsuits. I'm also very happy he threw out the proposed settlement because there was just to appease the people who were suing Disney in the first place!

Chalk one up for Disney and the American legal system.

I would read the decision with care.

Disney lost this case. Period no way to sugar coat it.

Yes they will appeal but many , including to United States Department of Justice has expressed major concerns about Disney's attempt to circumvent Federal Law .

That was a major topic for Sally Conway at the National ADA Symposiums.

We are also happy that no money was paid to the plaintiffs, that in part is how DRAFT ended up involved.

The Judge saw thru Disney's attempt to create a Class Action in perpetuate when Disney did not have a "class".

To be sure Disney lost this case.

Be Big,
AMAC

 

[Snowgod]

Also of note, The Johnson and Johnson Company has discontinued production of their Stair climbing wheel chair. This is important because the agreement that they had prevented the segway from being marketed as an assistive device. Now the Segway can be sold as a medically assistive device. This will change the whole legal process that allows Disney to deny access.

 

[tarkus]

The ruling:

http://www.draft.org/Portals/0/Disney/Documents/ault decision oct6.pdf

Be Big,
AMAC

 

[melancholywings]

I'm iffy on this. I can see how the segway is amazing for those who need it through a disability, but I also think so long as Disney provides resonable accomidations - such as allowing the use of other mobility devices that Disney's rule is fair.
Do insurance companies cover the cost of a segway? Do they recognize it as a neccesary medical device?

 

[KYMickey]

Do insurance companies cover the cost of a segway? Do they recognize it as a neccesary medical device?

The answer is NO to both of your questions! If the people who are trying to sue Disney really want to be of help to the disabled community they should work on getting the Segway certified as a handicapped mobility device. If they did that they would open a lot of doors for people instead of just one when they think they can make some money and points!

 

[Cheshire Figment]

The answer is NO to both of your questions! If the people who are trying to sue Disney really want to be of help to the disabled community they should work on getting the Segway certified as a handicapped mobility device. If they did that they would open a lot of doors for people instead of just one when they think they can make some money and points!

I agree with you completely.

However, there is no agency that "certifies" a device as a mobility device. There are certain standards which the Department of Justice has set, but it is up to the manufacturer of the device to certify that it meets these standards and is designed to be a medical device.

The manufacturer of the Segway has publicly stated that it is not a medical device and they have no intention to have it certified as such.

And two of the posters in this thread have had their only posts in either disABILITIES, Community, or this Forum and all they have done is pushed for Disney to allow the Segway as a mobility device, and they are active in DRAFT which has this as an agenda.

And Disney now does have a four wheel stand-up mobility device available for rental in the parks; I have seen them in use.

 

[Expert_Glider]

Cheshire Figment - I agree with you completely.

However, there is no agency that "certifies" a device as a mobility device. There are certain standards which the Department of Justice has set, but it is up to the manufacturer of the device to certify that it meets these standards and is designed to be a medical device.

There is no requirement for a mobility device to be "certified". Most people that do not understand the law place their "hat" on FDA approval, The Segway does not have FDA approval, nor does it need to....a crutch, cane or walker does not have FDA approval (or many 'Scooters'). A service dog doesn't have it either - there goes that argument!.

The manufacturer of the Segway has publicly stated that it is not a medical device and they have no intention to have it certified as such. So what?

And two of the posters in this thread have had their only posts in either disABILITIES, Community, or this Forum and all they have done is pushed for Disney to allow the Segway as a mobility device, and they are active in DRAFT which has this as an agenda. Of course I do...to educate others that may not understand the life-changing experience that happens to people with a qualifying disability using a Segway.

And Disney now does have a four wheel stand-up mobility device available for rental in the parks; I have seen them in use.

Try walking a mile in "their" shoes!

 

[Expert_Glider]

Cheshire Figment....

This is your opportunity to learn something (maybe) you didn't know:

http://www.draft.org/LinkClick.aspx...the+Segway+-+August+2009.pdf&tabid=75&mid=502

 

[tarkus]

I agree with you completely.

However, there is no agency that "certifies" a device as a mobility device. There are certain standards which the Department of Justice has set, but it is up to the manufacturer of the device to certify that it meets these standards and is designed to be a medical device.

The manufacturer of the Segway has publicly stated that it is not a medical device and they have no intention to have it certified as such.

And two of the posters in this thread have had their only posts in either disABILITIES, Community, or this Forum and all they have done is pushed for Disney to allow the Segway as a mobility device, and they are active in DRAFT which has this as an agenda.

And Disney now does have a four wheel stand-up mobility device available for rental in the parks; I have seen them in use.

Not all my post, but many have been about this topic,
So whats the problem, dont like an agenda that is different than yours.

YOU HAVE AN AGENDA, EVERYBODY DOES.
You are just intolerant of any other than yours.

DRAFTS IS TO ADVANCE the LIVES OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES.
How horrid.

If you dont care for dissenting comments then boot me off. I would expect that.

Be Big,
AMAC

 

[KYMickey]

The manufacturer of the Segway has publicly stated that it is not a medical device and they have no intention to have it certified as such.

This should immediately close all discussion on the issue!

If the manufacturer says the device is not a medical device and does not want to certify it is such then if an individual wants to use it in that capacity it is his own decision. No one person or company should be forced to accept it as such if the manufacturer does not intended to be used for that purpose.

I don't see how any sensible person would put forward a case arguing it is a medical device after seeing this information!

 

[schmitty]

What can a segway do that other disney approved medical devices can not do?

 

[Expert_Glider]

What can a segway do that other disney approved medical devices can not do?

1) A person with a disability on a Segway can see better - IE: at eye level.

2) They can also be seen better by others.

3) The Segway has zero turning radius making it far more manuverable than other mobility devices.

4) The Segway has a very small footprint - about the same space as an adult human standing.

5) The Segway excels in navigating confined spaces such as hallways, restrooms and elevators.

6) The Segway comes closer than any other mobility device to replicating walking.

7) The Segway can travel up to 24 miles on a single charge allowing a full day of usage without requiring a re-charge.

8) The Segway was designed to safely interact with pedestrians in crowded environments.

9) People with disabilities don't "look" disabled when using a Segway. (This bothers some people).

10) Segways are easier to transport than other larger mobility devices.

11) Segways take up less physical space than other mobility devices.

12) Segways can handle a wide variety of slopes and terrain better than other mobility devices. IE: Hills, grass, dirt, gravel etc...

13) Standing on a Segway is far healthier than sitting. Better for many body functions...circulation, respiration, bone density, muscular tone, etc...

14) The Segways control system requires a very low level of manual dexterity. Hand controls on many mobility devices are not usable by some with disabilities.

15) The Segways speed is infinitely variable from zero to the speed setting utilized. Many mobility devices are either full-on or full-off, making manuvering in confined or crowded spaces difficult. IE: You have to "trigger" the throttle to modulate the speed.

 

[schmitty]

1) A person with a disability on a Segway can see better - IE: at eye level.

2) They can also be seen better by others.

3) The Segway has zero turning radius making it far more manuverable than other mobility devices.

4) The Segway has a very small footprint - about the same space as an adult human standing.

5) The Segway excels in navigating confined spaces such as hallways, restrooms and elevators.

6) The Segway comes closer than any other mobility device to replicating walking.

7) The Segway can travel up to 24 miles on a single charge allowing a full day of usage without requiring a re-charge.

8) The Segway was designed to safely interact with pedestrians in crowded environments.

9) People with disabilities don't "look" disabled when using a Segway. (This bothers some people).

10) Segways are easier to transport than other larger mobility devices.

11) Segways take up less physical space than other mobility devices.

12) Segways can handle a wide variety of slopes and terrain better than other mobility devices. IE: Hills, grass, dirt, gravel etc...

13) Standing on a Segway is far healthier than sitting. Better for many body functions...circulation, respiration, bone density, muscular tone, etc...

14) The Segways control system requires a very low level of manual dexterity. Hand controls on many mobility devices are not usable by some with disabilities.

15) The Segways speed is infinitely variable from zero to the speed setting utilized. Many mobility devices are either full-on or full-off, making manuvering in confined or crowded spaces difficult. IE: You have to "trigger" the throttle to modulate the speed.

1-4, 8 lots of other devices also have these traits. Im assuming the one Disney created has these traits.
5. A segway will be just as cumbersome as a wheelchair in a tight bathroom like the one at Animal Kingdom by the safari.
6. There are several devices that mimic walking much more accurately than the leaning forward on a segway.
7. Battery tests are crap. 24 miles down hill? Tail wind? average speed? Way to many variables. Most battery powered devices last a full day.
9 I agree with this because segway isnt marketed towards people with disabilities. Fact is people judge a persons disability by how they look. A person using a electric wheelchair will most likely look more disable than a person using a segway.
10 and 12 are negated because you are at Disney. You dont need to worry about transporting or going up lose dirt hills.
11 because it is designed for standing on compaired to a wheelchair.
13. You arent sitting in a wheelchair the entire time at disney. You will have to get up and move to get onto rides. You wont lose bone density at disney.
14. Segways are much harder for many people to handle than an electric wheelchair. Honestly the only people I have not seen be able to use hand controls on wheelchairs are people with no arms.
15. Lots of new wheelchairs are more sophisticated than that. Its not 1992 anymore.

The main problem I have with Disney and this issue is not about letting segways in but forcing people to pay to use Disney issued devices. If you bring in a segway you should be allowed to use a disney device free of charge.
Anything can be considered a safety devices. Heelys or a skateboard could be assistive technology for some. Im not disputing the use of it being used as assistive technology but the need of it at disney when there are many other options available.

 

[melancholywings]

The manufacturer of the Segway has publicly stated that it is not a medical device and they have no intention to have it certified as such.

Then I think the mouse is in the right to have rights to not allow it. If the manufacturers didn't developed or intended it to be a medical device (which would include testing and approvals) then Disney shouldn't have to be forced to acknowledge it as one and be forced to take the risk and liability for it - when they have provided a resonable alternative.

I don't think the argument is 'Can a segway improve a person's life?' but what constitutes as resonable and fair to both parties.

 

[Expert_Glider]

Then I think the mouse is in the right to have rights to not allow it. If the manufacturers didn't developed or intended it to be a medical device (which would include testing and approvals) then Disney shouldn't have to be forced to acknowledge it as one...

Myth - A mobility device must be FDA approved to qualify under ADA.

This is a common misconception. FDA approval has nothing to do with ADA protections. Canes, crutches, walkers, braces, and many ECV’s and scooters are not FDA approved, but are covered under the ADA.

Service dogs are covered under the ADA as well but lack FDA approval.

The 1973 Rehabilitation Act as amended in 1998, in the definitions contained in that act, applicable to every section of that act, including section 504, defined an assistive technology device as "any item, piece of equipment, or product system, whether acquired commercially, modified, or customized, that is used to increase, maintain, or improve functional capabilities of individuals with disabilities."

It is an all encompassing definition and includes all items from Segways to wheelchairs. There is absolutely no definition or mention of any other type of assistive device, including a wheelchair or scooter in the entire 1973 Rehabilitation Act as amended in 1998, nor does there need to be.

FDA approval has nothing to do with legal protections afforded mobility devices under the ADA.

 

[Dznefreek]

Originally Posted by Expert_Glider
1) A person with a disability on a Segway can see better - IE: at eye level.

2) They can also be seen better by others.

3) The Segway has zero turning radius making it far more manuverable than other mobility devices.

4) The Segway has a very small footprint - about the same space as an adult human standing.

5) The Segway excels in navigating confined spaces such as hallways, restrooms and elevators.

6) The Segway comes closer than any other mobility device to replicating walking.

7) The Segway can travel up to 24 miles on a single charge allowing a full day of usage without requiring a re-charge.

8) The Segway was designed to safely interact with pedestrians in crowded environments.

9) People with disabilities don't "look" disabled when using a Segway. (This bothers some people).

10) Segways are easier to transport than other larger mobility devices.

11) Segways take up less physical space than other mobility devices.

12) Segways can handle a wide variety of slopes and terrain better than other mobility devices. IE: Hills, grass, dirt, gravel etc...

13) Standing on a Segway is far healthier than sitting. Better for many body functions...circulation, respiration, bone density, muscular tone, etc...

14) The Segways control system requires a very low level of manual dexterity. Hand controls on many mobility devices are not usable by some with disabilities.

15) The Segways speed is infinitely variable from zero to the speed setting utilized. Many mobility devices are either full-on or full-off, making manuvering in confined or crowded spaces difficult. IE: You have to "trigger" the throttle to modulate the speed.

Someone owns a Segway Franchise . . . . .

All these facts are great but as long as WDW is complying with current ADA laws it is a moot point . . . . I also think it is just another case of people wanting to say "look at me ". . . . .

 

[melancholywings]

Myth - A mobility device must be FDA approved to qualify under ADA.

This is a common misconception. FDA approval has nothing to do with ADA protections. Canes, crutches, walkers, braces, and many ECV’s and scooters are not FDA approved, but are covered under the ADA.

Service dogs are covered under the ADA as well but lack FDA approval.

The 1973 Rehabilitation Act as amended in 1998, in the definitions contained in that act, applicable to every section of that act, including section 504, defined an assistive technology device as "any item, piece of equipment, or product system, whether acquired commercially, modified, or customized, that is used to increase, maintain, or improve functional capabilities of individuals with disabilities."

It is an all encompassing definition and includes all items from Segways to wheelchairs. There is absolutely no definition or mention of any other type of assistive device, including a wheelchair or scooter in the entire 1973 Rehabilitation Act as amended in 1998, nor does there need to be.

FDA approval has nothing to do with legal protections afforded mobility devices under the ADA.

This doesn't change my opinion that both parties have rights in this case and both have to make concessions for the better good of all, when the safety of all is the concern. Allowing the use of ECV's and wheelchairs is a resonable concession, being forced to allow all mobility devices when alternatives are present is not resonable.

Also the tone of your reply (intentional or not) comes off snarky which is doing little to promote or serve to educate others to your point of view.