Josh is the voice of reason on FP+

[john398]

I know I used Touring Plans subscription last time and was able to do everything I wanted by following there guidance, has anyone used Touring Plans lately since FP+?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Maybe you just need some Visualization. This can easily be done with a 4 hour break in the middle of the day on Wednesday around spring break(March 19th to be exact). This is even with being 30 late to rope drop....if you make rope drop this is a breeze:

Time Ride Wait
9:30 AM Buzz Lightyear 5
9:40 AM Buzz Lightyear 8
9:56 AM Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure 19
10:26 AM Buzz Lightyear 21
10:53 AM Space Mountain 35
11:35 AM Space Mountain (use FASTPASS+) 10
11:54 AM Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor 14
12:34 PM Dumbo, the Flying Elephant 51
1:34 PM Enchanted Tales with Belle (use FASTPASS+) 6
2:07 PM Break
6:11 PM it's a small world 24
6:50 PM Haunted Mansion (use FASTPASS+) 5
7:14 PM Big Thunder Mountain Railroad 41
8:04 PM Pirates of the Caribbean 21
8:41 PM Swiss Family Treehouse 1
8:53 PM Jungle Cruise 35
9:45 PM Wishes Fireworks (10:00pm performance) 15

You can do the meet and greats during the break or swap out your FPs for Characters and wait in line for the rides.

Thank you for the breakdown...for the most part that is workable. I would not get in a 50 min line for dumbo, nor am I a fan of my husband and I having to spend so much time apart to ride thunder (since that would be sb, and Dd can't enter the line), but aside from that it is workable. Thanks.

 

[glamdring269]

I think the issue with that will be the same as it was with ADR's. People will book multiple parks and then decide which one they want to use, leaving the others unused. I think a fair way to do it would be the additional park(s) is same day FP+.

That could very well be a problem. But I also think it's a problem with the current system regardless. By not having a first come/first serve "live" (paper) system you basically set up the system to waste if people don't show up.

Does anyone know if they 'overbook' time slots like airlines do seats under the assumption that some % of people will not show up? Granted there was waste in the paper system but there were also several times I remember handing my paper FP ticket to someone about to get in the standby line just because I couldn't use it. Talk about making people happy... can't do that anymore though.

 

[Magpie]

Thank you for the breakdown...for the most part that is workable. I would not get in a 50 min line for dumbo, nor am I a fan of my husband and I having to spend so much time apart to ride thunder (since that would be sb, and Dd can't enter the line), but aside from that it is workable. Thanks.

Keep in mind - that 50 minute wait for Dumbo is not spent in line. It's spent in an air-conditioned playground for the kiddies. Some parents have reported having difficulty dragging their kids out of the tent to ride the elephant, when wait times are shorter.

 

[skater]

There has been a queue on both sides of Spaceship Earth for a long time and I have seen it lines up on both sides during peak times. This was before the new FP system.

I don't tend to go during peak times. So, my point is that during a fairly slow or moderate time, SE, POTC, and a couple other attractions had long waits - something I'm not used to seeing.

 

[becca-becca]

We went in mid June(peak) and had 3 2yr olds in our party. Like I stated we waited in virtually no lines. Winnie The Pooh broke down and that was our only long wait. Would I expect the level of ease on all trips, no....but I also know that if I have long lines and ride on very few rides, I won't go. I also am in the camp of purchasing more FP and will pay for an onsite hotel and not use it for access. Worse comes to worse we hit two parks only and pay for VIP for our next trip if the situation stays the same, but it will mean instead of going to WDW as one of yearly vacations every few years...it will be the last for a long time. I don't think WDW or anyone else for that matter will care if that happens, but I do think it is a shame that something that worked well for most was changed to something that works well for few(at least at this time). Do I think that can change, sure and I hope it does.

I do not equate our trip success on how many rides, but how satisfied we feel and how much fun we have. The same way I do on any trip. When you have experienced something that was so great and then it changes, just makes you feel disappointed that it may not be that way again. If on our next trip to Hawaii we find out that the beaches are closed for the next 20 years b/c of a toxic spill and now all visitors much share one lagoon and you have to schedule your day there and can only go 3 times during your week trip..it may make us not want to go back. Yes we are still in paradise, we can hike, horseback ride, helicopter rides and luau...but the beaches(while not the only part) are a big part of our trip so we will just go elsewhere for our next trip if we can't have access like we used to.

This is WDW decision, do I think the company will go belly up b/c of this...no, but that doesn't mean it still wasn't a mistake and it may change things for them and not just in good ways. Just b/c Disney puts their stamp on it doesn't make it better or right...they are not exempt from making mistakes as a big corporation(as many have pointed out look at the car industry). Do I know for a fact this was a mistake, no b/c it is too early to tell. Doesn't change the fact that I am relieved we took our trip before this mess and that we won't pay the kind of money we did for another until the dust settles.

I totally agree with this. I am not a fan of the FP+, but, since I have not done it yet I will wait until August to completely decide as our trip is set and cannot be changed without messing up our DVC points. However, I despise the idea of tiering. I understand this is my opinion. But, unless they improve this system, August will probably be our last trip for a long time. We are DVC owners and we will just come and stay in our DVC rooms and go to other parks.

In the recent years since Universal built HP, I do not think Disney has done much to compete. The Fantasyland addition was their answer and the result: The Ariel ride is basically an Ariel coated version of Finding Nemo at Epcot. Why could they not have come up with some exciting new concept? It does not have to be a thrill ride, just something different. I do not get what they are thinking. The restaurant is nice and the Bell storytime is neat but the first time I left the new addition after it had opened I walked out thinking, "Wow, what a letdown". And then to add FP+ and the tiering--it's enough to drive us elsewhere and we have loved our Disney vacations.

Disney charges a very large price for their tickets and it just seems like the value of the vacations there are becoming less and less.

 

[Iowajes]

It seems like you are having trouble understanding that there really are families out there different than yours. Shocking, I know. There really are people out there who want to see everything when they visit (sometimes multiple times) because they do not get to go multiple times a year, every year, every second year, or even more than once in their lifetime. They really do exist, I promise.

Even if it is a once in a lifetime trip, it is unrealistic to think you can go to a popular crowded place and do/see everything. Everything is just not possible unless you have a very long vacation.

This is true for everything- when you go on a cruise, you can't do everything, when you go on a land vacation somewhere else, you have to pick the most important things to see.

What is it about Disney World that makes people feel they should be able to do everything? Is it because it is all contained inside one gate?

Disney World has too much to do at once BECAUSE they want to be a multi-trip destination. It is designed so that there is too much to experience and they try to get you back.

 

[AmyB2006]

Keep in mind - that 50 minute wait for Dumbo is not spent in line. It's spent in an air-conditioned playground for the kiddies. Some parents have reported having difficulty dragging their kids out of the tent to ride the elephant, when wait times are shorter.

LOL. My kids don't even want to ride Dumbo, they just want to go on the playground.

 

[skater]

Even if it is a once in a lifetime trip, it is unrealistic to think you can go to a popular crowded place and do/see everything. Everything is just not possible unless you have a very long vacation.

This is true for everything- when you go on a cruise, you can't do everything, when you go on a land vacation somewhere else, you have to pick the most important things to see.

What is it about Disney World that makes people feel they should be able to do everything? Is it because it is all contained inside one gate?

Disney World has too much to do at once BECAUSE they want to be a multi-trip destination. It is designed so that there is too much to experience and you have to go back.

But before the current system, you could do a lot more. I miss having the freedom to do more. Simple as that.

 

[skater]

LOL. My kids don't even want to ride Dumbo, they just want to go on the playground.

It is a great playground! I took my son (11 at the time) to Disney by himself last year. Even he was pulled in the lure of that playground . Since it wasn't busy, I let him play for a long time.

 

[Iowajes]

But before the current system, you could do a lot more. I miss having the freedom to do more. Simple as that.

Not everyone could- there were some people who really knew how to use the system and could do a lot, and others who did less. If you didn't have a FP runner, it could be very tough to get some rides at decent times.

Or, perhaps as the economy recovers attendance is increasing- there wasn't capacity in the old system for everyone to continue doing "more".

Really, they need more rides. (But then you still won't be able to do them all...)

 

[redkel]

I think the original point was that you can still have a good time, ride rides, meet characters, etc. at MK with a TOURING PLAN. Josh's site, after all -- is all about touring efficiently.

I've done 4 trips to WDW in the last 20 years. I had a touring plan for each one and can honestly say that -- regardless of FP, rode a ton of rides..multiple times and never waited more than 30 minutes for anything (standby or FP line). Those trips were as an adult couple, a couple with a toddler child and then a couple with elementary age children. I must say that they did include RD each day and a couple of times - late nights. They also included riding during parades and fireworks at times also. We are park hoppers as well.

We love to do everything...see it all and do it all, and we travel with big expectations. But -- we're realists also: you can't control everything, things happen, be adaptable, yada yada.

To each their own. I would never tell you that you should keep spending your money someplace when you don't feel you're getting your money's worth. It's your money. Vacation at Disney or not. If you don't -- hopefully there's a shorter line for me next time I go, because my family really enjoys it.

I have read a lot of posts about FP+ from folks who haven't used it yet. Sorry if I don't take your word as gospel on the subject. I have also read a lot of well thought out posts and explanations of how to tour effectively using the new system from people who frequent The World and have experimented using FP+. Thank you to those folks. I appreciate the tips and recommendations. Keep them coming!

Since my family doesn't vacation often, it's important for us to do our research and always have a plan. We do this whether we're going to the OBX or having a staycation. Well, since I'm a type A, penny pincher -- I have a plan for every trip to the store as well...but I digress.

Just like the original FP rollout, I see tweaks and adaptations in the future for the FP+ system. Most of Disney's systems/policy changes like ADR's and FP enforced return times, etc. were made in response to demand and abuse by guests.

Change is hard, but once Disney starts mining data from FP+ usage -- I think we'll see some updated policies and enhancements to accommodate what's really happening vs what they expected to happen.

Your mileage may vary. Batteries not included. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. No purchase necessary.

 

[Laketravis]

Wow. This thread grew faster than my 8 year old.

I like Josh's writing style, I like his wit, I like his logical approach to WDW.

I like Josh. Heck, you can even find a picture of me in his blog if you look back far enough.

But my takeaway from his blog is he has confirmed what people on these forums have already been saying:

1. Get to the parks early
2. Save your FP's for the afternoon or evening

His pictures are proof that even on busy days you'll (only?) have a couple of good hours before the waits are long.

Hopefully in the future that will still be the case (and is essentially the subject of many debates on these boards).

Josh will no doubt keep posting his reports and provide plenty of pictures. We can also count on him to highlight both the positives and the negatives in a balanced manner.

 

[notfrostyjosh]

A couple of things.

This is not an EMH morning. It's the Saturday of Martin Luther King Jr. weekend and by attendance, one of the 25 busiest days of the year. In the afternoon, they are only about 6,000 people away from discussing the possibility of a phased closure. That's still about 15,000 people away from actually needing a phased closure, but a phased closure is rarely a concern. I purposefully waited until a busy, non-recommended Saturday to show how much you can expect to accomplish first thing in the morning, even when the afternoon is "insane." I'm sure there will be plenty of "NEVER AGAIN IN JANUARY" threads incoming, but this is one of the least busy four week periods of the year at the Parks.

If this was today (the 22nd, a most recommended day on easywdw, overall crowd level '4,' highest crowd level of the day on touringplans) touring would be even easier and we would see much shorter afternoon waits. This is what we're talking about:

This is basically dead.

It's true that I do move faster than your average family. But I also meander a lot, take a lot of pictures, change lenses, pose for pix with my adoring fanz etc.

For example:

Larger: http://imgur.com/ohmyDd1

Each pic with red text is a stop.

And while I might move faster than your average family of eight, the cheat sheet timing is more conservative. Even families with 2 year olds, grandpa, and a "stop and strike a pose for the scrapbook" aunt should be able to complete each step within the time allotted. I'm ahead of the timing as I point out, but a couple minutes here and there for strollers etc. isn't going to throw you off too far. and it's already factored into the timing. Because I'm a little quicker personally, I end up about 30 minutes ahead of schedule. But also, on my particular touring day, I take 25 minutes in between Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean and both Pirates and Jungle Cruise are still walk-ons.

If you showed up at 11am at Magic Kingdom on this particular day, you'd be pretty screwed whether we're talking about FASTPASS or FP+. FASTPASS return times for Peter Pan would be out to 3pm or 4pm, Space Mountain would have a 100 minute wait and FASTPASS out to 6pm etc. If Jr. wanted to re-ride Big Thunder Mountain at 1pm, you would initially wait 75 minutes or have had to pull a legacy FASTPASS by 11:30am. Then you'd have to wait 100 minutes in line or pull a legacy FASTPASS for a return time of 3pm.

etc. etc.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Keep in mind - that 50 minute wait for Dumbo is not spent in line. It's spent in an air-conditioned playground for the kiddies. Some parents have reported having difficulty dragging their kids out of the tent to ride the elephant, when wait times are shorter.

I know what the queue for dumbo is now. My daughter has developmental delays and is not mobile yet, so she wouldn't be able to run around like the other kids.

We are working with early intervention and ot and I hope it isn't something I have to think about by the time we go to Disney next, but I can only plan ahead for where she is now as I have no idea when she will reach those milestones.

 

[skater]

Not everyone could- there were some people who really knew how to use the system and could do a lot, and others who did less. If you didn't have a FP runner, it could be very tough to get some rides at decent times.

Or, perhaps as the economy recovers attendance is increasing- there wasn't capacity in the old system for everyone to continue doing "more".

Really, they need more rides. (But then you still won't be able to do them all...)

But anybody could learn the system, right? But I guess for someone new, it could be great to walk in with 3 fp's. And yes, they really do need more rides . I love Disney and will be back (have an upcoming trip) as much as possible. I'm not sure what my breaking point is. I'm just feeling a little disappointed right now.

 

[Momtomouselover]

I enjoyed reading Josh's post and I think it will work for some families or individuals. However, even he mentioned you are still missing out on a few rides at the end but no big deal. I'll even give him that although to some (we already discussed scaredy cat kids who want to repeat, other kids who like re-rides, adults who like repeat rides, etc.) those last few rides were the difference between a good and a great day.

My big issue is that we used to be able to do that (#of rides, great day) without hitting RD (or even earlier like Josh) by effectively using FP. Or if we were hitting RD we got the additional rides and a GREAT day!! Now, if we don't hit RD or change to a less busy time of year to visit we get less for the same or more money. Will I stop visiting? Probably not but I won't go as often or I will try to reduce how much I spend to get a better value. Why should I be happy about it though? I see two benefits. One I don't have to RD TSMM and two on those days I was planning on little time in the parks I could hit three rides or one headliner (Epcot, DHS) in a relatively short time then go. Overall not a god trade off for my family and touring style and for when we typically visit.

 

[Lindaland]

It does have other things to offer, but for what they are charging if I am not getting on a significant number of rides it isn't worth it. I am not paying that kind of money to watch parades/fireworks and to eat.

We didn't spend the money it costs and time it took to get to FL to wander around looking at each other.

Everyone's money is the same!! WE ALL SPEND GOOD MONEY!!! My trips are never free, but I also don't think I am going to WDW for very cheap either. If you're that concerned about money and how much "value" you are getting out of your vacation. WDW is the last place you should go.

Is there some algorithm or formula I'm not aware of that lays out how many rides you are entitled to ride per dollars spent?

Love this!

I am disappointed with FP+ because for us, we would be getting a lesser experience than in the past while paying more for the experience.

Do you feel this way when you go to the theater?? Grocery shopping? Buying anything in the last few years?? Prices have gone up everywhere, not just at WDW and in may ways the experience is "less than" what it once was.

Many of us who have concerns about FP+ are well aware that WDW is "sooo much more than just rides."

Based on your later posts, I would say you were not accurate in that statement....



Why is it that people here just have to jump on every positive thread and insist on telling people why they are wrong. Everyone travels differently, and what works for one family, wont work for another, that doesn't make them wrong.

 

[Tigger's ally]

Again, I don't understand why some people refuse to look past their own vacation experiences and realize there are many ways to visit WDW. People shouldn't be talked down to because they have the nerve to suggest riding rides is important to them in a theme park.

You are beginning to see the problem. Disney had to decide what was best for the vacationing population going forward. Can you imagine trying to make any decision after reading these boards for the last six months?

 

[Laketravis]

Okay - did anybody else notice that Josh just posted some great clarifications?

Thanks Josh!