Josh is the voice of reason on FP+

[ArwenMarie]

No matter how bad FP+ ends up it isn't the plague or famine. It will be ok. No one will die as a result. Worst case scenario? The about 1% of the planet that goes to Walt Disney World will have to wait in a few lines. Won't someone think of the children?!?!

I have never seen a bigger outcry over something so small in the grand scheme of life. If Disney ever does something that makes me not want to go I will....just not go. I'm optimistic that my trip in February will be great, FP+ or no FP+.

What do you expect on a board called the DISboards? This isn't the WorldPeaceBoards or the CleanWaterBoards.

 

[morethananyonex]

Game the system?

Yeah that's my stumbling point too. I know some people didn't like FP-, but they lose me when they refer to people who simply used the system in that manor.

Gaming/cheating/abusing the system should refer to those who used fake FP, handed the CMs one real and the rest invalid, and things of that nature. Using the system to the fullest is not gaming the system anymore than booking 3 FP+ for the busiest time of day on the busiest rides is gaming the system.

 

[Angel Ariel]

By that, I mean beating the system but by being smart about it and figuring out how the system works and how you can use it in the most efficient way for whatever you value. Not by cheating but by working within the system or winning the "game" that is the system. I'm not putting any negative connotation on it. Does that make sense?

I appreciate that you don't intend a negative connotation, but generally speaking there is an inherent negative connotation with the phrase "gaming the system" which is where others are getting the negative connotation from. It is more unusual to hear the phrase and to have it *not* include a negative connotation

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Yeah that's my stumbling point too. I know some people didn't like FP-, but they lose me when they refer to people who simply used the system in that manor.

Gaming/cheating/abusing the system should refer to those who used fake FP, handed the CMs one real and the rest invalid, and things of that nature. Using the system to the fullest is not gaming the system anymore than booking 3 FP+ for the busiest time of day on the busiest rides is gaming the system.

I always considered myself to be "gaming" the system before, so I don't mind that label. I knew that Disney did not mind my use, so I really didn't care if anyone else might. We fully leveraged our knowledge, gathered FP- all day long and used them whenever we wished with no concern for the printed return time. It was awesome, but we knew that it would eventually be changed, and it was. First with time enforcement, then with this new system. I don't mind that, either. We have found a way to make this work to our advantage. We move forward.

 

[MsMagical]

Yeah that's my stumbling point too. I know some people didn't like FP-, but they lose me when they refer to people who simply used the system in that manor.

Gaming/cheating/abusing the system should refer to those who used fake FP, handed the CMs one real and the rest invalid, and things of that nature. Using the system to the fullest is not gaming the system anymore than booking 3 FP+ for the busiest time of day on the busiest rides is gaming the system.

So, I apologize if my turn of phrase offended. It wasn't intended. When I think of gaming the system, I don't think of cheating it, I think of working within in it to win whatever it is that is valued most. I do not believe that knowing the fp system and working within it was cheating at all. I believe it was smart. Just wanted to clarify that. Again, sorry if I confused or offended. I meant no disrespect at all. I respect being smart about playing within the system to get the most of out of it.

 

[skater]

So, I apologize if my turn of phrase offended. It wasn't intended. When I think of gaming the system, I don't think of cheating it, I think of working within in it to win whatever it is that is valued most. I do not believe that knowing the fp system and working within it was cheating at all. I believe it was smart. Just wanted to clarify that. Again, sorry if I confused or offended. I meant no disrespect at all. I respect being smart about playing within the system to get the most of out of it.

Okay

 

[morethananyonex]

So, I apologize if my turn of phrase offended. It wasn't intended. When I think of gaming the system, I don't think of cheating it, I think of working within in it to win whatever it is that is valued most. I do not believe that knowing the fp system and working within it was cheating at all. I believe it was smart. Just wanted to clarify that. Again, sorry if I confused or offended. I meant no disrespect at all. I respect being smart about playing within the system to get the most of out of it.

No problem. A lot of us jump on a phrase like that because during these conversations FP- users have been referred to as anything from abusers to thieves, so we're quick to defend ourselves.

I apologize too for misunderstanding what you meant.

 

[MsMagical]

I appreciate that you don't intend a negative connotation, but generally speaking there is an inherent negative connotation with the phrase "gaming the system" which is where others are getting the negative connotation from. It is more unusual to hear the phrase and to have it *not* include a negative connotation

I know. I think I just forgot this time that I was writing it instead of saying it. When I say it, you can see respect in my body language. I mean it is smarter to read the system and figure out the best way to use it than to put no thought in at all. As I said, I was usually pretty lazy about it but I definitely did my share of working within fastpass to minimize my wait times. No judgement here. I like it when people are clever enough to see a system and how to navigate it.

 

[btk2333]

Everyone had the same opportunity to have a similar day to the one I had We didn't employ any complicated touring strategies or schedules, FPs didn't run out for headliners in the morning (not til mid-late afternoon/early evening, IIRC). Maybe we were an "extreme" that day, I don't know, but not because we did anything extreme to make it that way. Before your post, I would have said we were average guests that day as we didn't go out of our way to maximize anything.

I don't think you did anything wrong or manipulated the system. But the system Disney had set up allowed for the extremes. My personal belief is that Disney no longer wants the extremes to be quite so far apart. As a result- they are changing the system to push everybody closer to the average. This understandably upsets people who were at the extreme (not saying you did anything wrong or considered yourself extreme, you just knew the system and this gave you the advantage). The question long term is whether knowing the new system will also give you an advantage- I believe it will, just not as much of an advantage as people had before.

 

[FireDancer]

Game the system?

Game or beat it. Use it in ways Disney doesn't want you to use it.

Example: Using expired media to pull current fastpasses along with your current media so you double dip.

 

[jbish]

Everyone who still goes to Disney World will be happy that there will be less of us there. Maybe, it will get to a point where no rides will need fastpass plus; because, the parks will be empty.

I find this to be such an interesting thing to say (and others who have said similar). Do you really believe this will happen? There are more and more people that come "on line" to being Disney fans, whether they start having kids (who become little fans of their own starting with Disney Junior and working through the animated features), or come to appreciate Disney as adults, that will be planning their first ever trip to WDW. I've personally helped two families plan their first trips ever and am in the process of helping another family. The first two families had a great time and made wonderful memories.

For those that are moving on and not going to Disney anymore, hey, do what you need to do. Don't know why you keep coming to the Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies Board if you aren't planning on going to any of the parks in the near future just to bad mouth the system that you clearly don't like and won't be using for a while.

FWIW, I don't think the parks will be "empty" anytime soon. (Too bad - I would love to go to an empty WDW!)

 

[lugnut33]

Game or beat it. Use it in ways Disney doesn't want you to use it.

If a person had two sets of ticket media (for example two AP's) two magic bands, and two MDE accounts, essentially a person could get 6 FP+ per day. There is no way for them to track you as you leave, therefore you enter with one band, leave, change bands, and enter again with another band. Both bands are then active in the parks.

Just speculation on my part and nobody should EVER do that.

 

[skater]

Game or beat it. Use it in ways Disney doesn't want you to use it.

Example: Using expired media to pull current fastpasses along with your current media so you double dip.

I think we've beat that dead horse enough. You've heard all the arguments, and nothing I say will change your mind. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[jessiebug]

I just got back from my second trip using FP+ and I still dont like it. we missed 2 of our FP and we were not allowed to get new ones to replace the ones we missed. we were there this past weekend and there was over 105 min wait for thunder mnt, and this is the slow time of the year. Every ride we went on had longer wait times than usual for this time of year. it felt like I was there in the summer again for how long of a wait time it was. They could make this a lot better if they made it so whenever you use the FP+ you get 3 that you can reserve ahead of time AND have kiosks where you just scan your MB and get FP for other rides later in the day! Like you can only scan the MB for extra FP's after 1pm and can only get 1 FP per day per ride! I just think they could make this much better then how they have it now.

 

[john398]

If a person had two sets of ticket media (for example two AP's) two magic bands, and two MDE accounts, essentially a person could get 6 FP+ per day. There is no way for them to track you as you leave, therefore you enter with one band, leave, change bands, and enter again with another band. Both bands are then active in the parks.

Just speculation on my part and nobody should EVER do that.

I guess tats why some theme parks wanted to use biometrics for people entering the park, Are there photos on AP still? or is it they just use their magicbands?

 

[skater]

I find this to be such an interesting thing to say (and others who have said similar). Do you really believe this will happen? There are more and more people that come "on line" to being Disney fans, whether they start having kids (who become little fans of their own starting with Disney Junior and working through the animated features), or come to appreciate Disney as adults, that will be planning their first ever trip to WDW. I've personally helped two families plan their first trips ever and am in the process of helping another family. The first two families had a great time and made wonderful memories.

For those that are moving on and not going to Disney anymore, hey, do what you need to do. Don't know why you keep coming to the Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies Board if you aren't planning on going to any of the parks in the near future just to bad mouth the system that you clearly don't like and won't be using for a while.

FWIW, I don't think the parks will be "empty" anytime soon. (Too bad - I would love to go to an empty WDW!)

I don't think there will be lower crowds at Disney World, unfortunately. But expressing disappointment in the new system or even complaining about it is not the same thing as bad mouthing the system. Or maybe I don't correctly understand that term .

 

[jco_direwolf]

One thing to remember Legacy FP worked for "those in the know" because we knew how to work it. But a lot of people didn't even at the end know it was included with admission to the park.

In the last 10 years average of 3 trips per year I think every trip I told someone "go pull a FP the wait is x minutes and the fast pass are about the same". And they would tell me "oh we didn't pay for FP". They have tried for years to get people to know its included and people don't listen.

This new system allows them to include it as part of the pre-arrival marketing. And you don't have to traipse around the parks.

I'm not a fan of FP+ today. But the new system has ways to expand it that they never could have with the paper ones.

I believe, I'm smart enough to use the new system; there will be holes that I can take advantage of (like old room keys for legacy fp; and the fact that entrance to the park is no longer required to use FP+); they will change and expand the system as they get more comfortable.

That said I'm not going to get worked up about it and I'm still gojng to go visit the mouse. But then I was happy in the pre legacyFP days too

 

[rteetz]

I don't think you did anything wrong or manipulated the system. But the system Disney had set up allowed for the extremes. My personal belief is that Disney no longer wants the extremes to be quite so far apart. As a result- they are changing the system to push everybody closer to the average. This understandably upsets people who were at the extreme (not saying you did anything wrong or considered yourself extreme, you just knew the system and this gave you the advantage). The question long term is whether knowing the new system will also give you an advantage- I believe it will, just not as much of an advantage as people had before.

I agree I saw that only about 50% of guests actually use FP and that the average was around two FP per day. A good quality vacation can be done with only 3 but people have gotten too used to not standing in lines and getting as many FPs as possible.

 

[rteetz]

I find this to be such an interesting thing to say (and others who have said similar). Do you really believe this will happen? There are more and more people that come "on line" to being Disney fans, whether they start having kids (who become little fans of their own starting with Disney Junior and working through the animated features), or come to appreciate Disney as adults, that will be planning their first ever trip to WDW. I've personally helped two families plan their first trips ever and am in the process of helping another family. The first two families had a great time and made wonderful memories. For those that are moving on and not going to Disney anymore, hey, do what you need to do. Don't know why you keep coming to the Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies Board if you aren't planning on going to any of the parks in the near future just to bad mouth the system that you clearly don't like and won't be using for a while. FWIW, I don't think the parks will be "empty" anytime soon. (Too bad - I would love to go to an empty WDW!)

I don't think Disney is going to go from 17.5 million per year in a park to a few million or something. Some people need to understand that Disney has millions upon millions of guests and it would really take a lot and I mean a lot to drop attendance by hundreds of thousands and I don't think this system is going to be that thing that drops attendance.

 

[shalom]

I think FP+ makes it less likely that FPs go to waste because of the ability to change on the fly if you can't make it on time and because the three FP limit makes each one more valuable.

Agreed.

[Disney] took it away because it wasn't working for the majority of guests.

There's a rumor going around that Disney may eventually allow people to add FP+ reservations on a cash basis, but that even with paid extras they won't allow multiple FPs at the same ride. If that turns out to be the case, then my initial suspicion that WDW's partial goal with FP+ is to cut down on people using FPs to take multiple rides on the same ride without waiting probably has merit. The popular rides only offer so many possibilities in one day; people who knew how to FP efficiently could ride repeatedly, which sometimes meant people who didn't know how to work the system didn't get to ride at all.

When angry first comers complained in the days of FP-, the CM might be able to comp them some FPs or could explain the system better, but telling an angry someone to go look for FP machines at select rides on days when all the FPs are gone for that day probably isn't terribly helpful. Being able to schedule up their FP+ selections for that day and the rest of that family's trip -- Sheer Gold by comparison.

But anybody could learn the system, right?

Learning it is one thing; using it is another. The old FP system definitely favored the highly mobile. People who needed to minimize walking could not use it very effectively; people who couldn't walk fast lost out a bit at rope drop rush as well. With FP+, newbies also won't lose time trying to figure out where the FP machine is for each ride, or whether the ride even has FP. Once FP+ gets going good, it'll be a much gentler learning curve, and presumably the lines at the on-site stations will be shorter, since more people will already have bands and/or be able to schedule ahead of time.