JonBenet Ramsey

[Bluestars]

Only a seated jury in a murder case against someone who has been charged can do that, so while some DA can have that opinion, I doesn't mean anything. Especially to those (including me) who still see the parents as suspects.

I agree. If you haven't found the murderer, how can you say that ANYONE has been cleared? Nobody can say that the parents didn't have some part in this, because nobody will ever know what happened.

The most incriminating evidence to me is the kidnapping note and the parents appearing more concerned about protecting themselves than in finding the "killer." It sounds to me like an accidental murder that was covered up by multiple people. Who knows what provoked it.

 

[Bluestars]

I know that the circumstances have been discussed over and over, but I can't help but wonder why the parents don't remember giving JonBenet pineapple when their fingerprints are on the bowl she ate it from and it was sitting in the kitchen. It is said that she consumed pineapple four hours before she was murdered.

Also, there is this:

Fiber Evidence. Fibers matched to the red sweater Patsy was wearing that night were found in places key to the crime: the paintbrush caddy she kept her art supplies in, the blanket used to wrap JonBenet's body, on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth, and tied into both knots of the ligature used to strangle JonBenet. Patsy denies she ever went near these places wearing that sweater. In the interviews with Boulder prosecutors in August, 2000, prosecutor Bruce Levin summed up the evidence: MR. LEVIN: "I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those."
Bed Not Slept In? According to veteran Colorado journalist and former editor-in-chief of The Denver Post Chuck Green, "some investigators say that Patsy Ramsey was wearing the same clothes on the morning of the murder as she wore the previous night, and that her side of the Ramsey bed hadn’t been slept in."

 

[snowwhite325]

I know that the circumstances have been discussed over and over, but I can't help but wonder why the parents don't remember giving JonBenet pineapple when their fingerprints are on the bowl she ate it from and it was sitting in the kitchen. It is said that she consumed pineapple four hours before she was murdered.

Also, there is this:

Fiber Evidence. Fibers matched to the red sweater Patsy was wearing that night were found in places key to the crime: the paintbrush caddy she kept her art supplies in, the blanket used to wrap JonBenet's body, on the sticky side of the duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth, and tied into both knots of the ligature used to strangle JonBenet. Patsy denies she ever went near these places wearing that sweater. In the interviews with Boulder prosecutors in August, 2000, prosecutor Bruce Levin summed up the evidence: MR. LEVIN: "I think that is probably fair. Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is, can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death. And I understand you are not going to answer those."
Bed Not Slept In? According to veteran Colorado journalist and former editor-in-chief of The Denver Post Chuck Green, "some investigators say that Patsy Ramsey was wearing the same clothes on the morning of the murder as she wore the previous night, and that her side of the Ramsey bed hadn’t been slept in."

I read the book that the Ramseys wrote about the whole ordeal and in it Patsy said that when she woke up the morning of December 26th she put on the closest thing to her and that was the outfit from the night before. The family was supposed to leave for a cruise that day and she had some last minute things to do before she was going to take a shower and get dressed.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

This topic has been discussed in great lengths for years on Websleuths (www.websleuths.com/forums) and the general concensus by the more seasoned sleuthers seems to be that the Ramseys were involved on some level.

I haven't read more than a few magazine articles on the subject but after surfing the Websleuths forums I want to get the book written by the former Boulder Police Dept detective who left the force over the whole case and fully believes the Ramseys were involved.

Anyone read that book?

 

[DisneyMomOK]

This topic has been discussed in great lengths for years on Websleuths (www.websleuths.com/forums) and the general concensus by the more seasoned sleuthers seems to be that the Ramseys were involved on some level.

I haven't read more than a few magazine articles on the subject but after surfing the Websleuths forums I want to get the book written by the former Boulder Police Dept detective who left the force over the whole case and fully believes the Ramseys were involved.

Anyone read that book?

Steve Thomas, one of the inept cops that compromised the case in the first place, was censured by the Federal Judge who dismissed a defamation lawsuit against the Ramseys. http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1048518253788 The only real exam of the case by a jurist found the Ramseys victims and dismissed a lawsuit filed against them by an individual they had long suspected of involvement. The Judge examined the evidence and determined in a 93 page decision that an intruder had killed JonBenet.

 

[daisyduck123]

JonBenet would have turned 18 yesterday.

Haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned.....

Her birthday was not on Christmas Day.

Yesterday is the anniversary of her death.

 

[moon]

I read the book that the Ramseys wrote about the whole ordeal and in it Patsy said that when she woke up the morning of December 26th she put on the closest thing to her and that was the outfit from the night before. The family was supposed to leave for a cruise that day and she had some last minute things to do before she was going to take a shower and get dressed.

That sounds really strange to me.

 

[snowwhite325]

That sounds really strange to me.

I agree but that is what they wrote in the book...I have the movie Perfect Murder Perfect Town and they handle it the exact same way

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

JonBenet would have turned 18 yesterday. It's perhaps a good time to reflect back on her case and how the media and public treated it. Her parents were vilified. Countless shows, talking heads, etc. pronounced them guilty (or at least suspicious). How many posters on the DIS knew they did it. When it started to become clearer that the parents weren't involved, some people were so committed to their opinions of their guilt they couldn't give them up. Others turned to new suspect they knew must be guilty. The new suspects were also tried in the media and by the talking heads; we now know they didn't do it either.

Have we learned anything from how we reacted to the Ramsey case? Have the TV shows and talking heads toned downed their declarations of "guilt?" Have we as posters decided to take more of a wait-and-see attitude rather than jump to conclusions?

I checked out www.websluths.com and I have to say that is one bunch of scary people. The thing that scares me is that often people read something and it takes on a life of its own as being true. While posters on that site are posting their own opinions, I am afraid that not just for this case but others, people will read and take what these speculations as true. I think that the Ramsey's were somehow involved but gosh when you go to that site I think of Salem Ma in the late 16oo's. Who has that much time on their hands that they can obsess about these cases?

 

[AndyLL]

JonBenet would have turned 18 yesterday. It's perhaps a good time to reflect back on her case and how the media and public treated it. Her parents were vilified. Countless shows, talking heads, etc. pronounced them guilty (or at least suspicious). How many posters on the DIS knew they did it. When it started to become clearer that the parents weren't involved, some people were so committed to their opinions of their guilt they couldn't give them up. Others turned to new suspect they knew must be guilty. The new suspects were also tried in the media and by the talking heads; we now know they didn't do it either.

The touch DNA really didn't show anything that wasn't already known. The 2006 DNA already showed a 3rd party.

While it makes it likely a 3rd party was involved it does not mean the parents were not involved.

The parents were vilified because they would not talk to the police. Since the killer knew details about Ramsey's job and bonus talking to the police might have helped find the killer.

It seems likely that the Ramsey's themselves believed that the killer was a family member which would explain why they stonewalled the police. Why should the media take blame for believing the same thing.

Lacy's clearing them publicly was a publicity stunt to try to make up for her earlier handling of Karr.

The new DA rightly believes that no one is cleared.

 

[AndyLL]

In this case I believe the new DNA. Also, I CAN believe the keller would hve made one of 2 "tries" at the note before being satisfied. Keep in mind you're not talking about a normal, well balanced human being here. This is a person who assaulted then killed an innocent child. If you're depraved enough to murder then why not rewrite the note??

How did the note writer know the exact amount of John Ramsey's bonus?

Not just the death but the facty that the family was villified and that there has really been no justice nor resolution in this case. I find it hard to say how I would act if my child was killed.

They deserved to be villified. They were more interested in protecting themselves then solving the murder.

 

[fairykin]

Prayers left in memory of a child who died a cruel death. No child deserves that. Prayers for shelter and safety for all children in situations of crisis around the world.

 

[ksumn1]

Don't know how the note writer knew the exact amount of the bonus. Not my job to know...it was the PD's. It's been so long ago that I don't remember all th evidence etc. I simply stated the idea that a person who murders a child could or would rewrite a note befor murdering them. Given that this is not a "normal" person, their behavior would not be normal or expected.

Although there were suspicions about the Ramsey's involvement the media convicted them based on assumptions and what evidence the PD gathered. And when I say villified I mean the ENTIRE family. Mom, Dad, little brother. I don't know what happened. I know the family did some very strange things. I also know there were inconsistencies in their stories that SHOULD have been investigated.

I don't want to argue the case, evidence or what did or did not happen. It's not my job to do so. That's up to the police. I simply feel IMHO that although the family acted strangely, they were villified in the press by speculation which was not backed up by SOLID evidence that was enough to convict them for. If not proven guilty in court, they are presumed innocent in the eyes of the legal system. You have your opinion, I have mine.

I also know that there have been cases where the parents were "assumed" guilty when they were not. Standard procedure to clear those closest to the victim first. But if I felt I was not going through a normal police questioning and was being targeted for something I knew I did not do...I would call a lawyer. Of course, were I guilty I would probably call one as well so in public opinion your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. And I also know that there are cases wher it sadly turns out that he parent did murder the child. Look at the Calee Anthony case. Is the Mom guilty. Possibly and IMHO most likely. But until it's proven in court she's still innocent.

I just feel horrible about the whole situation. No child deserves the fate that JonBenet had happe to her. She should be in high school, going to prom and preparing for life. Instead, she's in a grave.....all that potential wasted.

And in my previous post, I mistakenly posted the ROTFL smilie. I did not mean to post that smilie, I meant to post the confused one. I did NOT mean to make light of the situation. It came off as very inappropriate and I aplologize.

 

[DisneyMomOK]

The parents were vilified because they would not talk to the police. Since the killer knew details about Ramsey's job and bonus talking to the police might have helped find the killer.

It seems likely that the Ramsey's themselves believed that the killer was a family member which would explain why they stonewalled the police. Why should the media take blame for believing the same thing.


The new DA rightly believes that no one is cleared.

US District Judge Julie E. Carnes debunked your statement in her 2003 decision. She cited the Ramseys' willingness to cooperate until it was obvious the PD was ignoring evidence to railroad them.

Also, when the Ramseys sued the cop and his publisher, St. Martin's Press, for libel, the cop and the publisher settled; in oher words, the cop's book could not be supported with facts.

 

[Piecey]

Im not sure who did it, but its sad that the media could destroys life's with out proof

Agreed.

Patsy Ramsey was born here, went to high school here (graduated with my dad) and hadn't been around here for years... but still the media came HERE trying to dig crap up.

It was pathetic.

 

[AndyLL]

US District Judge Julie E. Carnes debunked your statement in her 2003 decision. She cited the Ramseys' willingness to cooperate until it was obvious the PD was ignoring evidence to railroad them.

Carnes is an Atlanta lawyer who ruled in a lawsuit... not in the crime.

The Ramsey's did not interview with the police until april 30th... 4 months after the crime; and that was written questions. They hired a PR firm within days of the crime.

In no way can it be conluded that the Ramsey's cooperated with the investigation.

Also, when the Ramseys sued the cop and his publisher, St. Martin's Press, for libel, the cop and the publisher settled; in oher words, the cop's book could not be supported with facts.

All it means is that money can win court cases.

The Ramseys accused Wolf in a book with no 'facts' but Carnes dropped that lawsuit.

So the Ramsey's are willing to sue anyone that accuses them publicly but seem to be allowed too accuse anyone they want without repercussions.

It's nice to have money to hire the best lawyers in the country when you're under investigation.

 

[themilesfamily]

Here's what doesn't make sense to me.

There was a long (rambling) ransom note found. It was written on a pad of paper from the Ramsey's kitchen. They also found a "practice" page or two where the person started writing the note and then started over again.

If this was an intruder/outsider, when and why would he write this note? I can't imagine he'd do it first - sit in the kitchen, an entire household of people sleeping upstairs, and write a practice draft or two and then a long ransom note, all the time risking being caught, before going up to kidnap the child.

Some investigators now believe that the intruder actually broke into the house while the Ramsey's were out at a Christmas party that evening. He may have had hours in the house before they got home. Hours to write a note, investigate the layout of the house, etc.

Some believe he may have hidden under a bed when the Ramsey's came home and come back out during the night. They found a dust ruffle in one of the crime scene photos that was disturbed in such a way that it looked like someone had slid out from underneath the bed. The rest of the dust ruffle was intact -- and just one portion of it was pushed out. Of course they can't go back now and look for DNA/hair/skin in that area -- that evidence is long gone.

And what about the stun gun marks and the garrote around the neck I mentioned in an earlier post? No one has commented on that.

edited to add: JonBenet was sexually assaulted, strangled by a cord and hit on the head. Her mouth was covered with duct tape. The cord and duct tape could not be matched to anything in the Ramsey home. Where did those items come from?

 

[SereneOne]

Carnes is an Atlanta lawyer who ruled in a lawsuit... not in the crime.

The Ramsey's did not interview with the police until april 30th... 4 months after the crime; and that was written questions. They hired a PR firm within days of the crime.

In no way can it be conluded that the Ramsey's cooperated with the investigation.



All it means is that money can win court cases.

The Ramseys accused Wolf in a book with no 'facts' but Carnes dropped that lawsuit.

So the Ramsey's are willing to sue anyone that accuses them publicly but seem to be allowed too accuse anyone they want without repercussions.

It's nice to have money to hire the best lawyers in the country when you're under investigation.

It is my understanding that they, well just John now, are penniless.

 

[DisneyMomOK]

Carnes is an Atlanta lawyer who ruled in a lawsuit... not in the crime.

She is a Federal District Judge, that was formerly a Prosecutor. A little bit higher up the food-chain.

 

[RainbowBrite]

Completely OT, but that's a great picture in your signature.

Thank you so much