JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[mi*vida*loca]

Especially when they are taught to gyrate their hips in the way that they are. Or look over their shoulder in a "come hither" look. Oh, or the pouty lips.

Some things are just wrong. I don't care how much money you have or if you wanted to be a beauty queen but didn't make it. It is just wrong.

The facial expressions in some of their professional photos with a face full of makeup and bright red matte lipstick

 

[EMom]

I don't know who killed her nor do I know many details about this case. But I'll repeat what I said 20 years ago. The poor child is better off dead than living in the freak show world of kiddie beauty pageants.

That is an incredibly sick and cruel thing to say. I am no fan of child beauty pageants and even when encouraged by my child's dance teachers to enter DD in them, I politely turned down the "opportunity" as I just thought the pageants creepy and worried about the potential risk to my child. That said, you are essentially saying it is better for a child to be DEAD than participate in such pageants. Ridiculous. While I'd never put my child in one and God knows I have lots of issues with them, they simply aren't the worst things on earth. Plenty of dearly loved, well adjusted children participate in them. I think JonBenet was an extrovert, who loved to ham it up on stage. No one was forcing her to perform. She enjoyed herself. Even Patsy Ramsey later questioned her judgment in allowing JonBenet to participate in such pageants, because she realized it had made her child publicly visible to a group of people who perhaps could have had ill intentions. Hindsight is 20/20.

But to say it is better for a 6 year old, beloved child to be dead than to participate in a child beauty pageant is twisted.

 

[lovin'fl]

Very interesting clip.

http://www.today.com/video/jonbenet...burke-ramsey-opens-up-to-dr-phil-761181763824

 

[wilkeliza]

Very interesting clip.

http://www.today.com/video/jonbenet...burke-ramsey-opens-up-to-dr-phil-761181763824

I feel bad for her brother. He is never going to escape it and he will always be JonBenet's brother and not just Burke. It is clear that he has suffered socially because of that.

Was he a normal kid before the murder? I know someone mentioned earlier that Burke saw a therapist but that doesn't automatically make me throw up warning signs because I've met enough rich kids in therapy to realize their families are more likely to put them in it just for normal childhood things.

 

[lovin'fl]

I read there were some things going on with him before the murder. Some speculate on signs of Asperger's. Which is interesting in that they are literal and can't understand deception so would tell LE (and anyone who asked questions) honestly what happened.

 

[wilkeliza]

I read there were some things going on with him before the murder. Some speculate on signs of Asperger's. Which is interesting in that they are literal and can't understand deception so would tell LE (and anyone who asked questions) honestly what happened.

Asperger's would also explain why he can talk about the night now and smile while talking about it. I imagine it would make him less likely to lie so no reason to think that is something to make him more likely to have killed JonBenet. Seeing a therapist or specialist for Aspergers does not make me any more suspicious of him than any other child because being on the spectrum does not necessarily equate to being any more or less likely to kill someone.

 

[Kellykins1218]

Not sure where you get this idea that Aspergers kids don't lie. They may not understand cues or be able to tell when others are lying or being sarcastic but they absolutely can and do lie.

 

[Magpie]

I feel bad for her brother. He is never going to escape it and he will always be JonBenet's brother and not just Burke. It is clear that he has suffered socially because of that.

Was he a normal kid before the murder? I know someone mentioned earlier that Burke saw a therapist but that doesn't automatically make me throw up warning signs because I've met enough rich kids in therapy to realize their families are more likely to put them in it just for normal childhood things.

And not just "rich kids".

Therapy can be good for anyone having a hard time dealing with any issue, child or adult. A therapist is just someone you can talk to, who doesn't have an agenda beyond helping you figure out how to get along better. When my son was getting really stressed in middle school, he saw a therapist who gave him some techniques for dealing with his anxiety (he has a "learning disability - not otherwise specified" which made school a challenge). My daughter sees the therapist at her university, for help dealing with school stress and her tendency to be a perfectionist. Heck, even I saw a therapist when I was a kid, way back in the seventies and eighties! I think therapists can be good for anyone (after all, we're all stressed about something) and they don't have to be expensive either. The ones at the university are free.

If Burke was a socially awkward child, before his sister died (versus as a result of having his sister die), then having him see a therapist would be perfectly reasonable and very responsible of his parents.

(My mom called my therapist our "surrogate grandma", and she really did fill that role for us. Plus, she saw us for free in exchange for using me in some paper or other. Apparently I was an interesting child! )

 

[LisaR]

Not sure where you get this idea that Aspergers kids don't lie. They may not understand cues or be able to tell when others are lying or being sarcastic but they absolutely can and do lie.

Absolutely! The idea that they don't lie is hilarious to me. You should have known my son with aspergers when he was little. That kid couldn't tell the truth to save his life. Thankfully, that isn't an issue now that he is older. Had he found himself in the same situation as Burke at 9, it is very likely he would have invented some crazy, messed up story and stuck with it even as proof came in that it couldn't be true.

As for therapy, I would venture to guess that most kids with aspergers see a therapist at one point or another. Most don't go on to kill anyone.

By nature, those with aspergers are not violent. If Burke had exhibited violent tendencies, I am fairly certain it would have come out that he killed an animal or was causing trouble in school and maybe even suspended or kicked out. Also, if he was truly that violent to viciously murder his sister, it seems odd that he would have managed to keep those emotions in check all these years and not had problems with others.

 

[Hrhpd]

I read there were some things going on with him before the murder. Some speculate on signs of Asperger's. Which is interesting in that they are literal and can't understand deception so would tell LE (and anyone who asked questions) honestly what happened.

Wow! "They?" What an insult to people diagnosed on the autism spectrum. People with disabilities are as different and unique as you and I and you cannot pigeon hole them and say everyone on the Autism spectrum does not know how to lie.

Do you think all people with Down syndrome are happy all the time and want to hug everyone too?

My thoughts: The police really, really, really wanted it to be the Ramseys yet they cleared the family. If they swallowed their pride enough to admit the family really wasn't under an umbrella of suspicion then I am definitely going to believe them that they were not involved.

I thought Burke was cleared almost immediately because as a frail 9 year old, he didn't have the strength necessary to cause the damage done by the garrotte.

 

[wilkeliza]

And not just "rich kids".

Therapy can be good for anyone having a hard time dealing with any issue, child or adult. A therapist is just someone you can talk to, who doesn't have an agenda beyond helping you figure out how to get along better. When my son was getting really stressed in middle school, he saw a therapist who gave him some techniques for dealing with his anxiety (he has a "learning disability - not otherwise specified" which made school a challenge). My daughter sees the therapist at her university, for help dealing with school stress and her tendency to be a perfectionist. Heck, even I saw a therapist when I was a kid, way back in the seventies and eighties! I think therapists can be good for anyone (after all, we're all stressed about something) and they don't have to be expensive either. The ones at the university are free.

If Burke was a socially awkward child, before his sister died (versus as a result of having his sister die), then having him see a therapist would be perfectly reasonable and very responsible of his parents.

(My mom called my therapist our "surrogate grandma", and she really did fill that role for us. Plus, she saw us for free in exchange for using me in some paper or other. Apparently I was an interesting child! )

Sorry I only said rich kids because the lower income area I grew up in there wasn't necessarily a way to see a therapist for just "normal" childhood issues. I'm sure my mom would have loved to send me to help deal with the fact I was bullied as a kid but I didn't even know what one was until my brother was sent to one through his pediatrician for having severe anxiety and depression. It took the diagnosis from our Pediatricians before he could see one on insurance. I should have known better than to pigeon hole an entire group and didn't mean to come across as therapy for kids being a bad thing just meant it isn't a cheep thing. Heck I see 2 seperate therapist now as an adult so definitely not against them.

With aspergers I appologize as well. It seems it was taken the wrong way. It would explain some of the things people see as being odd now like his non-typical social interactions and missed social queues when speaking about the night everything happened.

 

[Magpie]

Sorry I only said rich kids because the lower income area I grew up in there wasn't necessarily a way to see a therapist for just "normal" childhood issues. I'm sure my mom would have loved to send me to help deal with the fact I was bullied as a kid but I didn't even know what one was until my brother was sent to one through his pediatrician for having severe anxiety and depression. It took the diagnosis from our Pediatricians before he could see one on insurance. I should have known better than to pigeon hole an entire group and didn't mean to come across as therapy for kids being a bad thing just meant it isn't a cheep thing. Heck I see 2 seperate therapist now as an adult so definitely not against them.

With aspergers I appologize as well. It seems it was taken the wrong way. It would explain some of the things people see as being odd now like his non-typical social interactions and missed social queues when speaking about the night everything happened.

Aw, I wasn't offended at all. It's just one of those things I find myself writing repeatedly, sometimes in response to parents saying things like, "My kid doesn't need therapy!"

My mum was definitely very lucky to be able to find a therapist for me in the States, as she was a single mother on a limited income. Once we moved to Canada, though, we could get help for free through the local hospital (personally, I don't think I really needed a therapist at that point, but she sure did!).

 

[erin1715]

I watched the A&E special today and am watching the dateline special now.

I came away feeling like John Ramsey was sincere and Burke had nothing to do with it. Patsy sent up some red flags to me, but mostly because I felt she came off as cold and unattached. What mother can give a coherent CNN interview 6 days after burying their child? I have to think you'd be so mentally distraught after not only knowing your child was murdered but also seeing her battered body that you would need to be sedated. I don't think I could function for a long time after that let alone give a public interview. But the evidence doesn't point to the family after seeing A&E.

I was also disturbed that LE professionals refer to JBR's undergarments as "panties". They can't use underwear? Panties has a sexual connotation IMO.

 

[disney4us2002]

I don't think panties have anymore sexual connotation than underwear. I usually refer to girls as wearing panties and boys as wearing underwear but to each their own. I watched the whole NBC special and still feel as undecided as before. I find the idea of an intruder in the house multiple times or for long periods kind of absurd, but I also cannot wrap my head around a parent killing her child. What would be the motivation? It's mind-boggling to me and 20 yrs later I think we still just have no idea.

 

[LisaR]

I watched the A&E special today and am watching the dateline special now.

I came away feeling like John Ramsey was sincere and Burke had nothing to do with it. Patsy sent up some red flags to me, but mostly because I felt she came off as cold and unattached. What mother can give a coherent CNN interview 6 days after burying their child? I have to think you'd be so mentally distraught after not only knowing your child was murdered but also seeing her battered body that you would need to be sedated. I don't think I could function for a long time after that let alone give a public interview. But the evidence doesn't point to the family after seeing A&E.

I was also disturbed that LE professionals refer to JBR's undergarments as "panties". They can't use underwear? Panties has a sexual connotation IMO.

I only watched the Dateline special. I thought Patsy was higher than a kite in that CNN interview. She seemed very much sedated to me especially comparing her to later interviews where she seems so much more alert and coherent.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I watched the A&E special today and am watching the dateline special now.

I came away feeling like John Ramsey was sincere and Burke had nothing to do with it. Patsy sent up some red flags to me, but mostly because I felt she came off as cold and unattached. What mother can give a coherent CNN interview 6 days after burying their child? I have to think you'd be so mentally distraught after not only knowing your child was murdered but also seeing her battered body that you would need to be sedated. I don't think I could function for a long time after that let alone give a public interview. But the evidence doesn't point to the family after seeing A&E.

I was also disturbed that LE professionals refer to JBR's undergarments as "panties". They can't use underwear? Panties has a sexual connotation IMO.

I only watched the Dateline special. I thought Patsy was higher than a kite in that CNN interview. She seemed very much sedated to me especially comparing her to later interviews where she seems so much more alert and coherent.

Patsy could have been heavily medicated. I read an article about what happened between the Rasmeys and the Whites in the aftermath of the murder. They had a bit of a falling out. The article was from the White's side and that's one of the things it said Patsy was on medication at the time of interview.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Regarding beauty pagents I don't see them any different than my friends' kids photos of dance or cheer with their skimpy outfits and make up for competitions. But we don't have pagents up here that I'm aware of so maybe there is a difference. I would expect that most of them are local with no one watching but parents and grandparents.

 

[LisaR]

I walked away from the Dateline special wondering more about Bill McReynolds (Santa Bill).

Google seems to provide some interesting information about him and his wife. Now, this case has been talked about all over the internet and I honestly don't have a clue if any of this stuff is true so take this for what it is worth which is probably nothing.

Bill McReynolds talked for quite awhile at JBR funeral. He said some things that raised red flags for some and sent out the creep vibe to others. This was noted on Dateline. He had been in the Ramsey home many times. He was cleared because he had heart surgery in August and they didn't feel he would have been strong enough to commit the crime. He was strong enough to play Santa, though. He was also well enough to vacation in Spain with his wife less than a month later.

His own 9 y/o daughter and her friend were kidnapped on 12/26/74 (exactly 22 years to the day before JBR) and his daughter had to watch her friend get sexually abused.

Janet McReynolds was his wife. She wrote a play 20 years before JBR was murdered and two years after her daughter was kidnapped about a girl who was sexually abused in a basement and later died in a hospital. She was also a huge movie/TV buff and the ransom note seemed to have a number of Hollywood references.

All of that probably means absolutely nothing, but I read most of it on the internet so it must be true!

 

[RainbowBrite]

I walked away from the Dateline special wondering more about Bill McReynolds (Santa Bill).

Google seems to provide some interesting information about him and his wife. Now, this case has been talked about all over the internet and I honestly don't have a clue if any of this stuff is true so take this for what it is worth which is probably nothing.

Bill McReynolds talked for quite awhile at JBR funeral. He said some things that raised red flags for some and sent out the creep vibe to others. This was noted on Dateline. He had been in the Ramsey home many times. He was cleared because he had heart surgery in August and they didn't feel he would have been strong enough to commit the crime. He was strong enough to play Santa, though. He was also well enough to vacation in Spain with his wife less than a month later.

His own 9 y/o daughter and her friend were kidnapped on 12/26/74 (exactly 22 years to the day before JBR) and his daughter had to watch her friend get sexually abused.

Janet McReynolds was his wife. She wrote a play 20 years before JBR was murdered and two years after her daughter was kidnapped about a girl who was sexually abused in a basement and later died in a hospital. She was also a huge movie/TV buff and the ransom note seemed to have a number of Hollywood references.

All of that probably means absolutely nothing, but I read most of it on the internet so it must be true!

I also wonder about Santa Bill. I have also read the things you posted here about the McReynolds family. The mother of a friend of JonBenet's said that JonBenet told her she was going to get a "special visit from Santa" after Christmas. I have no idea what that means, but I do know that someone called 911 from a Christmas party where Santa Bill was playing Santa a few days before the murder. When the police showed up they were told the kids were playing with the phone and everyone was fine.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I walked away from the Dateline special wondering more about Bill McReynolds (Santa Bill).

Google seems to provide some interesting information about him and his wife. Now, this case has been talked about all over the internet and I honestly don't have a clue if any of this stuff is true so take this for what it is worth which is probably nothing.

Bill McReynolds talked for quite awhile at JBR funeral. He said some things that raised red flags for some and sent out the creep vibe to others. This was noted on Dateline. He had been in the Ramsey home many times. He was cleared because he had heart surgery in August and they didn't feel he would have been strong enough to commit the crime. He was strong enough to play Santa, though. He was also well enough to vacation in Spain with his wife less than a month later.

His own 9 y/o daughter and her friend were kidnapped on 12/26/74 (exactly 22 years to the day before JBR) and his daughter had to watch her friend get sexually abused.

Janet McReynolds was his wife. She wrote a play 20 years before JBR was murdered and two years after her daughter was kidnapped about a girl who was sexually abused in a basement and later died in a hospital. She was also a huge movie/TV buff and the ransom note seemed to have a number of Hollywood references.

All of that probably means absolutely nothing, but I read most of it on the internet so it must be true!

I didn't watch Dateline.
Who decided he wouldn't have been strong enough?
That's somewhat ridiculous. My father had triple bypass and was back at work 3 month later and he has a somewhat physical job.