JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[cabanafrau]

So the person threatened her and then fed her pineapple? She quietly ate without alerting someone before the torture began. None of it makes sense.

We don't know the circumstances of her eating the pineapple whatsoever. If it was served to her by her killer it's entirely likely she had no idea she was about to be tortured or killed. It's not impossible she got out of bed and came downstairs and retrieved the pineapple independently, subsequently stumbling into the killer by complete coincidence. We don't have enough information to sort it out, so of course things don't make sense. The entire proposition of making sense out of the murder of a child in the middle of the night is pretty tough to wrap your brain around to begin with. We don't even know if the person who murdered her did so as their primary intent or as a subsequent result of their primary intent.

 

[ELSA711]

We don't know the circumstances of her eating the pineapple whatsoever. If it was served to her by her killer it's entirely likely she had no idea she was about to be tortured or killed. It's not impossible she got out of bed and came downstairs and retrieved the pineapple independently, subsequently stumbling into the killer by complete coincidence. We don't have enough information to sort it out, so of course things don't make sense. The entire proposition of making sense out of the murder of a child in the middle of the night is pretty tough to wrap your brain around to begin with. We don't even know if the person who murdered her did so as their primary intent or as a subsequent result of their primary intent.

Well, based on how horrific it is. I don't think some random thief could do something like this on a whim. It's just so terribly sad IMO. I know she isn't the only little girl who hasn't seen justice, but the entire case is just crazy from start to finish.

 

[wilkeliza]

Did it come out that the pineapple being in the small intestine wasn't really as big of a deal as the original investigation made it out to be and that it could have been eaten even earlier in the day.

Does any one know did the Ramsey's have a live in Nanny or maid?

 

[cabanafrau]

Well, based on how horrific it is. I don't think some random thief could do something like this on a whim. It's just so terribly sad IMO. I know she isn't the only little girl who hasn't seen justice, but the entire case is just crazy from start to finish.

Actually a random thief panicking about being seen and looking to shut up a witness and prevent being identified could easily explain the murder. Criminals frequently do anything to avoid being caught. Panic, hit the child in the head, panic more, attempt to come up with a plan to hide the body, during the process of hiding child there are signs of consciousness, duct tape the mouth, panic some more, realize you now have to make absolutely sure the now injured child cannot identify or describe you ever, decide to strangle, child is able to grasp at garrote several times during strangulation and possibly shows signs of life once garrote loosened, so it is tightened repeatedly until convincing signs of death. Strangling is not as quick as the movies might make you think. Torturing the child may have been the result but not the reason the garrote was tightened and loosened more than once. Gruesome and hideous? Definitely. Absolutely doesn't mean it wasn't a random thief.

 

[wilkeliza]

Actually a random thief panicking about being seen and looking to shut up a witness and prevent being identified could easily explain the murder. Criminals frequently do anything to avoid being caught. Panic, hit the child in the head, panic more, attempt to come up with a plan to hide the body, during the process of hiding child there are signs of consciousness, duct tape the mouth, panic some more, realize you now have to make absolutely sure the now injured child cannot identify or describe you ever, decide to strangle, child is able to grasp at garrote several times during strangulation and possibly shows signs of life once garrote loosened, so it is tightened repeatedly until convincing signs of death. Strangling is not as quick as the movies might make you think. Torturing the child may have been the result but not the reason the garrote was tightened and loosened more than once. Gruesome and hideous? Definitely. Absolutely doesn't mean it wasn't a random thief.

The only thing that makes that less likely is the letter. The ransom letter is what is the weirdest part of all of it. If it was just a random theif who stumbled upon her in the kitchen eating pineapple then it would all add up to just killing her but then why the note.

 

[RitaE]

Did it come out that the pineapple being in the small intestine wasn't really as big of a deal as the original investigation made it out to be and that it could have been eaten even earlier in the day.

Does any one know did the Ramsey's have a live in Nanny or maid?

There were a couple of regular household employees - a housekeeper, a babysitter, I think a lawn person. But none of them were live-in.

 

[cabanafrau]

The only thing that makes that less likely is the letter. The ransom letter is what is the weirdest part of all of it. If it was just a random theif who stumbled upon her in the kitchen eating pineapple then it would all add up to just killing her but then why the note.

Police searched the home initially and didn't find her. Maybe the killer thought she might not be discovered for a good long while, particularly if there was something encouraging everyone to look elsewhere. The longer the time before discovery the more time for a killer to either potentially get away or potentially get away with it.

Or perhaps the ransom note was intended as a genuine ransom note and the kidnapping went astray and resulted in the child being killed.

 

[pryncess527]

Did it come out that the pineapple being in the small intestine wasn't really as big of a deal as the original investigation made it out to be and that it could have been eaten even earlier in the day.

Yes, i have read a number of things that could diminish the importance of the pineapple.
Digestion rates are apparently very highly personalized and it's really hard to say when she ate the pineapple, despite the large chunks. One said it had to be late, but another Boulder medical examiner said it could have been as early as 4:30. Burke was not questioned about the pineapple -- it's possible he and his sister had a snack before the White's party.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Actually a random thief panicking about being seen and looking to shut up a witness and prevent being identified could easily explain the murder. Criminals frequently do anything to avoid being caught. Panic, hit the child in the head, panic more, attempt to come up with a plan to hide the body, during the process of hiding child there are signs of consciousness, duct tape the mouth, panic some more, realize you now have to make absolutely sure the now injured child cannot identify or describe you ever, decide to strangle, child is able to grasp at garrote several times during strangulation and possibly shows signs of life once garrote loosened, so it is tightened repeatedly until convincing signs of death. Strangling is not as quick as the movies might make you think. Torturing the child may have been the result but not the reason the garrote was tightened and loosened more than once. Gruesome and hideous? Definitely. Absolutely doesn't mean it wasn't a random thief.

A random thief that knew the amount of the bonus. Knew where to find paper and pen, and put the items back. Okay.

 

[pryncess527]

A random thief that knew the amount of the bonus. Knew where to find paper and pen, and put the items back. Okay.

A random thief could still case a joint ahead of time and learn a surprising amount.

 

[Hikergirl]

A random thief that knew the amount of the bonus. Knew where to find paper and pen, and put the items back. Okay.

If I was looking to write a note, I'd look in an office or desk. Is that where the paper and pen were found?

 

[wilkeliza]

Yes, i have read a number of things that could diminish the importance of the pineapple.
Digestion rates are apparently very highly personalized and it's really hard to say when she ate the pineapple, despite the large chunks. One said it had to be late, but another Boulder medical examiner said it could have been as early as 4:30. Burke was not questioned about the pineapple -- it's possible he and his sister had a snack before the White's party.

That would explain why Burke's prints were on the bowl. Maybe he got them a snack and now years later doesn't remember (heck I can't remember what snacks my brothers and I ate back then). That would explain their parents not remembering.

 

[pryncess527]

If I was looking to write a note, I'd look in an office or desk. Is that where the paper and pen were found?

Yes, a desk in the hallway. and the pen was by the phone -- both very logical places to look. Esp since the desk was in a hall and not even in an office.

 

[wilkeliza]

A random thief could have still been someone who worked at the company Mr. Ramsey was CEO of. IT is possible employees knew the bonus amount or roughly the amount. I didn't read anything that said it was the exact amount of the bonus just roughly the amount of the bonus.

Wasn't the note book and pen found by the phone. I would expect there to be a pad and pen by a phone so you could easily take notes from callers.

 

[CdnCarrie]

If I was looking to write a note, I'd look in an office or desk. Is that where the paper and pen were found?

I would look by the kitchen phone.

 

[CdnCarrie]

That would explain why Burke's prints were on the bowl. Maybe he got them a snack and now years later doesn't remember (heck I can't remember what snacks my brothers and I ate back then). That would explain their parents not remembering.

I'm sure he was asked about the pineapple at the time.

 

[cabanafrau]

A random thief that knew the amount of the bonus. Knew where to find paper and pen, and put the items back. Okay.

Why not?

I'm a random thief who's gotten into a home while the family is out or while they're asleep. I'm poking around the house and find paperwork showing the bonus amount. Kid wakes up, I panic and kill her. I come up with the idea of the ransom note to attempt to keep the body concealed as long as possible.

I've hatched a kidnapping for ransom plot and have been observing the family for some time. In my forays in and out of the home I've uncovered the bonus information and think it's a slam dunk to collect because I can guarantee it's an amount they have, a significant amount of money. During the events of the night I placed the ransom note and subsequently ran into trouble with the little girl and wound up killing her. I don't bother retrieving the note because I gotta get away from there in a hurry because now it's murder.

I'm a disturbed person with fetishes and obsessions. What took place in that house that night will not make sense to anyone thinking normally and rationally, but make complete and perfect sense to serve the purposes of my festishes and obsessions. My obsessions have allowed me to both cover my tracks and confound others observing the scene and the case because I am meticulous about the things I am obsessed about to a degree the average person would never even conceive of.

Just because something cannot be explained doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

[pryncess527]

A random thief could have still been someone who worked at the company Mr. Ramsey was CEO of. IT is possible employees knew the bonus amount or roughly the amount. I didn't read anything that said it was the exact amount of the bonus just roughly the amount of the bonus.

Correct. It was "close to" the amount of his annual bonus. Seems to me that got twisted into "exactly the amount" -- but Ramsey said it was just close to the number.

 

[LisaR]

My grocery store sells plastic containers of fresh cut pineapple, the deli puts it together daily. She did not necessarily have to cut it up, nor did a potential intruder.

What I'm trying to determine is how normal this was for the family. In our case, we aren't big pineapple eaters. I have a can or two in the pantry, but we rarely have fresh pineapple in our house. I'm just curious if this was pineapple from home that the Ramsey family had purchased and cut up (or bought the container, like you mentioned) or if this was another odd piece of the puzzle. I remember it being discussed in the past, but I also know I've watched some shows that don't even mention it.

 

[LisaR]

From Perfect Murder, Perfect Town

PMPT Page 433

"The police had to piece together the findings of the various pathologists, who had explained to them that when food is swallowed, it goes first to the stomach, then passes to the duodenum, and from there to the lower small intestine. Eventually, the digested food passes into the large bowel, from which it exits. Food found in the stomach and intestines can sometimes be used to estimate the time of ingestion and to narrow the time of death.

In the Ramseys' dining room, just steps away from the kitchen, the police had found a bowl with fresh pineapple in it. Meyer noted in his report that the pineapple in JonBenét's small intestine was in near-perfect condition -- it had sharp edges and looked as if it had been recently eaten and poorly chewed.

Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that JonBenét had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she died, most likely after the family returned home that night. If she had eaten the pineapple after 10:30 P.M., that made the approximate time of death not earlier than midnight."

I thought people said the bowl of pineapple was on her nightstand? This says the bowl was in the dining room. If the pineapple was poorly chewed and in near perfect condition, is it possible the murdered forced her to eat it (possibly even while she was unconscious or drifting in and out)?