JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[cabanafrau]

Lord knows it's hard to verify the accuracy of anything on the internet about this case, but what I read said the report said "no prints were found on the flashlight" and that when "no prints" appears in a report, it means no usable information. The report did not specify that it was wiped clean and there is no reason to believe that is the case.

That's where questioning of a witness can prove valuable. If that kind of information isn't put forward in the direct examination, cross examination should flesh out those details.

ETA: If regular people on a discussion board are asking those questions about the evidence and the conclusions put forward, do we seriously believe it hasn't occurred to the production staff of these television shows? Curious they never seem to put forth any of these issues as even worthy of questioning.

 

[Tasha228]

I don't know if there is still a tag fairy but if so I hope they are reading this!

I agree. And, yes, there IS still a tag fairy. That quote in blue in my signature? I didn't put it there.

 

[sunshinehighway]

OMG I'm watching the CBS show and what they are doing to the audio as evidence would never ever hold up in court. Those noises when not altered are the dispatcher typing. I believe when you call 911 the audio is initiated and ended by the operator that's why many times when people hang up you hear the click and then the 911 dispatcher saying talk to me are you still there etc. I whole hearted believe that those "voices" were typing.

On top of that none of them agreed on what was said until someone else came up with something and fought for it. Originally the one guy said it was "Jesus, Jesus" and other convinced him it was "What did you do?". Come on that is just idiotic that it could have initially been either or that it sounded completely different from the speakers and the over the ear headphones. That audio tech should be ashamed of himself agreeing to manipulate an audio file like that. Lengthening an audio file does not make it easier to understand it makes it a 1000x harder because you are slowing it down to something that is not natural for us to process. The audio file that length would not have been noticible words.

The 911 operator sounds like she just wants her minute of fame. Why did she think anyone would want to talk to her during the investigation when they had the audio? She isn't a trained person so why does her feeling or opinion matter to the investigation? I had to call 911 when a 4 wheeler was driven over a family member and I can tell you how freaking stressful that is. I couldn'5 even remember our address I just kept saying we are the 2nd to last house on blank road!

It sounds like the ghost shows I watch. They get recordings of mostly static and random noises, yes sometimes they sound like voices. As soon as they say what they think the voice says, you suddenly can make it out. It previously just sounded garbled.

 

[wilkeliza]

Also the friend they interviewed seemed to be so anti the Ramsey family. She did exactly what they asked their circle not to and then is shocked they kicked her out of the circle? I would have too.

 

[goofy !]

anther local twist.... Gov of Colorado when the murder happened praises CBS and pretty much comes out and says that based on his knowledge and involvement, CBS got it right. very, very interesting.

Bill Owen's Facebook post:

Bill Owens
19 hrs·
CBS.com
·
For a number of reasons having to do with my then-responsibilities as Governor of Colorado I closely followed and was even to some extent involved in the aftermath of the tragic JonBenet Ramsey murder case. I have over the years talked to many of those who were part of the investigation and, based on those discussions, have my own strong views concerning who killed JonBenet. With that as background, I commend CBS for its excellent research, investigation and reporting in "The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey." To quote CBS...."You can eliminate the 'outside intruder hypothesis'" as to who killed JonBenet......"What we have here is a staged crime scene"...."Most likely John and Patsy Ramsey staged this to look like a monster predator killed their daughter." According to one of the CBS experts. "I believe the Ramsey family did not want law enforcement to resolve this case and that is why it has remained unsolved." Again, CBS is to be commended for stripping away the many myths surrounding this horrible case and presenting factually and unemotionally an unbiased account of this tragedy.

 

[kidshop]

It "followed a clip of Patsy", who has been dead for quite some time, and "was random and just stuck in there" -- yet you're confident enough of the editing job to make such a hardline judgment what the context was and what someone really meant? I'm willing to give a little more leeway.

Dr Phil must have edited it that way for a reason. Yes, the show jumped from an old clip of Patsy at the grave to John and Phil in the studio. It was at the end as they were wrapping up. Maybe you should try to watch it.

 

[LisaR]

anther local twist.... Gov of Colorado when the murder happened praises CBS and pretty much comes out and says that based on his knowledge and involvement, CBS got it right. very, very interesting.

Bill Owen's Facebook post:

Bill Owens
19 hrs·
CBS.com
·
For a number of reasons having to do with my then-responsibilities as Governor of Colorado I closely followed and was even to some extent involved in the aftermath of the tragic JonBenet Ramsey murder case. I have over the years talked to many of those who were part of the investigation and, based on those discussions, have my own strong views concerning who killed JonBenet. With that as background, I commend CBS for its excellent research, investigation and reporting in "The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey." To quote CBS...."You can eliminate the 'outside intruder hypothesis'" as to who killed JonBenet......"What we have here is a staged crime scene"...."Most likely John and Patsy Ramsey staged this to look like a monster predator killed their daughter." According to one of the CBS experts. "I believe the Ramsey family did not want law enforcement to resolve this case and that is why it has remained unsolved." Again, CBS is to be commended for stripping away the many myths surrounding this horrible case and presenting factually and unemotionally an unbiased account of this tragedy.

No, CBS expert, the case remains unsolved because the police mucked it up from the start and destroyed any chance of finding the murderer even if it did happen to be a Ramsey family member.

 

[goofy !]

No, CBS expert, the case remains unsolved because the police mucked it up from the start and destroyed any chance of finding the murderer even if it did happen to be a Ramsey family member.

We were talking about this at lunch at work the other day and somebody remarked that the killer could show up with a video of him committing the murder and they still would not be able to prosecute it since the Boulder Sheriff was soooo competent that night. (not - but then I got pulled over by the Boulder County Sheriff last week coming home from work, so I am going to rag on them )

A post earlier in this thread really struck me. If Jon and Patsy's life mission was to protect Burke, why didn't she offer a fake deathbed confession? It would have been the ultimate way to clear Burke.

 

[RitaE]

Each time I revisit this case I have to remind myself that this was the 1990's and pre-Crime Television that made us all expert Investigators days but even still I think

OMG how could they have not emptied that house and then searched and photographed every floor, closet, room, and under each bed at the first opportunity?

I rather think the Ramsey family didn't have to do much of anything to hinder the investigation. The DA's office and Police Department seemed to spend so much time fighting with each other that the Ramsey family almost seemed peripheral to all the drama. And so often it seems like when they'd calmed down and stopped beating each other up, the FBI or some Denver or something Consultants would step in to get them heated up again.

 

[Disneychick75]

Who vetted the information presented in the program? Did it follow the court rules for evidence that can be presented legally in court? Who was given the opportunity to challenge said evidence? What credentials do you have that allow you to decide they could have covered up the crime? Have you personally inspected the raw evidence and examined the chain of evidence and any expert evaluation of the evidence.

You read way back that he left and thought it was odd? I've read right in this thread within the past week or so that it has been proven he didn't leave the home at all? Is your opinion more valid because it's older, or is mine more up-to-date with the facts as they're known now?

I've heard he hit her when she walked behind the backswing of his club. Once again, whose opinion carries more weight?

Burke was biased? Yes, I'm sure he is, as are you, I and every other person on this thread. What does that have to do with the case or whether or not his bias impacts his recollection of the events? If you are odd does that mean you're guilty of a crime? It's been suggested he has Asperger's. If so, that information hasn't been publicly released. Are people with Asperger's more likely to commit murders? Shouldn't the public have the right to know if he is on the spectrum?

How do you know definitively someone could not get through that window? Is that the only possibility of an intruder getting in that home? Are you positive the home was absolutely secured while the family was out that evening?

Dr Lee and and Dr. Werner Spitz both reviewed the autopsy results and said they saw no evidence of molestation.
My credentials are about the same as all of the other posters here.
Patsy's friend was interviewed on the special and she said that Patsy told her that Burke was mad and swung the club at JonBenet.
Like a lot of other threads on the DIS, we all have our own opinions. My opinion is what it is just as you have yours. Sadly, probably neither of us will ever know what happened to that precious little girl.

 

[wilkeliza]

Each time I revisit this case I have to remind myself that this was the 1990's and pre-Crime Television that made us all expert Investigators days but even still I think

OMG how could they have not emptied that house and then searched and photographed every floor, closet, room, and under each bed at the first opportunity?

I rather think the Ramsey family didn't have to do much of anything to hinder the investigation. The DA's office and Police Department seemed to spend so much time fighting with each other that the Ramsey family almost seemed peripheral to all the drama. And so often it seems like when they'd calmed down and stopped beating each other up, the FBI or some Denver or something Consultants would step in to get them heated up again.

I love how they made a big deal that John brought her body into the living room and laid her on the floor (because there was a couch, chair, table available) but didn't make a big deal that the officer moved her body under the Christmas tree which seems even more weird.

 

[cabanafrau]

Dr Lee and and Dr. Werner Spitz both reviewed the autopsy results and said they saw no evidence of molestation.
My credentials are about the same as all of the other posters here.
Patsy's friend was interviewed on the special and she said that Patsy told her that Burke was mad and swung the club at JonBenet.
Like a lot of other threads on the DIS, we all have our own opinions. My opinion is what it is just as you have yours. Sadly, probably neither of us will ever know what happened to that precious little girl.

There's a lot to be explained about what "reviewed the autopsy results means".

 

[cabanafrau]

anther local twist.... Gov of Colorado when the murder happened praises CBS and pretty much comes out and says that based on his knowledge and involvement, CBS got it right. very, very interesting.

Bill Owen's Facebook post:

Bill Owens
19 hrs·
CBS.com
·
For a number of reasons having to do with my then-responsibilities as Governor of Colorado I closely followed and was even to some extent involved in the aftermath of the tragic JonBenet Ramsey murder case. I have over the years talked to many of those who were part of the investigation and, based on those discussions, have my own strong views concerning who killed JonBenet. With that as background, I commend CBS for its excellent research, investigation and reporting in "The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey." To quote CBS...."You can eliminate the 'outside intruder hypothesis'" as to who killed JonBenet......"What we have here is a staged crime scene"...."Most likely John and Patsy Ramsey staged this to look like a monster predator killed their daughter." According to one of the CBS experts. "I believe the Ramsey family did not want law enforcement to resolve this case and that is why it has remained unsolved." Again, CBS is to be commended for stripping away the many myths surrounding this horrible case and presenting factually and unemotionally an unbiased account of this tragedy.

Completely overlooking the fact that his pipeline of information likely came from genuine, true blue official sources -- who allowed not only contamination, but complete chaos of the crime scene and even the search of the crime scene.

 

[cabanafrau]

Dr Phil must have edited it that way for a reason. Yes, the show jumped from an old clip of Patsy at the grave to John and Phil in the studio. It was at the end as they were wrapping up. Maybe you should try to watch it.

No need. I've seen my share of reality TV to qualify me to know how editing can really punch up the volume of a story.

 

[LisaR]

Dr Lee and and Dr. Werner Spitz both reviewed the autopsy results and said they saw no evidence of molestation.
My credentials are about the same as all of the other posters here.
Patsy's friend was interviewed on the special and she said that Patsy told her that Burke was mad and swung the club at JonBenet.
Like a lot of other threads on the DIS, we all have our own opinions. My opinion is what it is just as you have yours. Sadly, probably neither of us will ever know what happened to that precious little girl.

I know everyone is different when it comes to personal and private matters, but if my kid has anger issues, so much so that he's purposely hitting his sister with a golf club, that simply isn't something I'm going to blab to friends. That's a private matter that I want to share with as few as possible. Patsy struck me as someone who was all about her image and reputation. Seems odd that she'd share something like that that would likely cause the gossip mill to turn among their social circle.

 

[gwynne]

Dr Lee and and Dr. Werner Spitz both reviewed the autopsy results and said they saw no evidence of molestation.
My credentials are about the same as all of the other posters here.
Patsy's friend was interviewed on the special and she said that Patsy told her that Burke was mad and swung the club at JonBenet.
Like a lot of other threads on the DIS, we all have our own opinions. My opinion is what it is just as you have yours. Sadly, probably neither of us will ever know what happened to that precious little girl.

Everyone has their opinions.
Me? I'm a little suspicious of information from "friends" that are discussing what Patsy told them to a TV show. Most real friends don't gossip about their dead friends.

 

[usnuzuloose]

I am seeing commercials for a new Movie about Jonbenet murder from life time. Was this made into a movie before?

 

[mi*vida*loca]

"The real story here is not that a child was murdered. The real story here is what was done to us by an injust system."


I took his statement to mean the story is no longer about his little girl being murdered. It's 20 years later and people are still dragging his family through the mud, especially law enforcement. That is now the story.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Where did I say that it was determined that Patsy wrote the note? I didn't. However, I believe she could not be ruled out.

And what in my post qualifies as a "theory on the internet"? AFAIK those are facts. I'll sum them up and correct me if they are theories and not facts.

Fact: The ransom note was written on a pad belonging to Patsy, using one of her pens.

(comment) The thought of a kidnapper breaking into a house to write a three page ransom note is beyond bizarre. He never worried about being found and took his sweet time to write a really wordy letter.

Fact: Patsy was wearing the same dress as the day before

(comment)kinda strange.

Fact: They didn't wake Burke up to ask if he had heard something which may help find his sister.

Fact: They didn't cooperate with police.

(comment)I'm sure it was under the advise of their lawyers, but when this happened JonBenet was supposedly still alive. I can't Imagine any parents listening to lawyers and not fully cooperating with police so they can find their child as soon as possible!

So, were the points of my post facts, or "theories of the internet"?

It's the way you present them that makes them sound like the theories of the internet.
You stated things in skewed way. That's fine but own that. Don't make it seem like your just objectively starting facts.
Also, Patsy didnt wear a dress the night before before. Yes, she had on the same clothes.
Burke being on the 911 call is just speculation. Nobody was really proven that to be true. It's hardly a fact.
The Ramseys were told very early on that they being targeted as suspected. They knew the police were out to get them. The police even leaked false information to the media and going on tv making veiled but obvious statements about the Ramseys. . So yeah, the weren't exactly helpful to the police
Yes not waking up Burke seems weird but it's less weird when you consider it was before 6am. Burke was up and sent off with family friends very early, 7 I think. It's not like they were pretending he was sleeping and hiding him in his room all morning.

 

[wilkeliza]

Yes not waking up Burke seems weird but it's less weird when you consider it was before 6am. Burke was up and sent off with family friends very early, 7 I think. It's not like they were pretending he was sleeping and hiding him in his room all morning.

On the Burke thing, I don't actually think not waking him up is a big deal. They went in saw he was safe and went about looking for JonBenet and making the call. I'll never forget the night my mom died when I was only 12. Most of my family thought I was still asleep when she finally passed but actually everyone's cries woke me up. I wasn't ready to face reality so acted like I was still sleeping because my grandma was stroking my hair and just making me feel loved. I distinctly remember my grandma who was comforting me as I slept telling my dad not to wake me just let me live in a world a little longer where my mama was still alive. I could see the Ramsay's thinking something similar. Why wake Burke and make he face this cruel reality that his sister was kidnapped? Just let him sleep a little longer in a world where things like that don't happen. If we are to believe Burke he did the same thing I did even though I was older. I faked being asleep so I didn't have to face what was going on and Burke did too.