JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[erin1715]

I have to say, all of these shows on TV lately about this case is complete overkill, no pun intended. They are all out to make money off of the 20 year anniversary of JBR's brutal murder. Nobody has said anything new. Nothing new has been discovered. It's enough with all these shows. I don't even think rehashing the OJ trial was as overdone as this has been.

 

[Kellykins1218]

Wow, some of the people on here are taking this all way too personally. Friends of the family or what?

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I have to say, all of these shows on TV lately about this case is complete overkill, no pun intended. They are all out to make money off of the 20 year anniversary of JBR's brutal murder. Nobody has said anything new. Nothing new has been discovered. It's enough with all these shows. I don't even think rehashing the OJ trial was as overdone as this has been.

Of course it was. It is the anniversary. The same thing happened with the OJ Trial. Or the Manson trials. The American public is somehow enthralled with these cases.

 

[pryncess527]

No, you are not quoting experts who actually examined her. You are quoting experts who were paid by the media to review the coroner's report and then give their opinion on the evidence. That would taint their review to skew it towards what the media wanted to print.

This bears repeating. So much of what gets attributed to "experts" in this case, comes from people who did not have any direct contact with the evidence, were not actually part of the case, and have no business commenting. Many of them also couch their comments in words that make it clear they are just guessing and not positive, yet the viewer comes away acting like it was sworn testimony delivered with 100% certainty. Experts rarely assert 100% certainty.

 

[cabanafrau]

Was talking with some people here at work who tell me that things got really bad between the police and the prosecutor, so much so that the prosecutor brought in a special investigator to bring fresh eyes to the case. Apparently the special investigator, an actual police detective by the way, found several key pieces of evidence pointed away from the family. The prosecutor then decided not to pursue the family, convinced they didn't do it. Eventually a special prosecutor was brought in and attempted to both shut out the special investigator AND destroy all of his evidence and files. That is beyond the bounds of anything remotely close to good investigation or appropriate prosecution.

 

[Pixie Dust ✨]

Wow, some of the people on here are taking this all way too personally. Friends of the family or what?

You don't need to know the family personally to be upset by the idea that innocent people may have gone 20 years being thought of as the scum of the earth because of a shoddy & conspiratorial investigation that was propagated by internet users who think they're detectives.

Thinking that a mother may have lived through this & died of cancer with half the world convinced she abused and killed her baby girl haunts me.

I would rather look like a fool if they're ever found to be guilty than mistakenly contribute to a witch hunt.

 

[cabanafrau]

This bears repeating. So much of what gets attributed to "experts" in this case, comes from people who did not have any direct contact with the evidence, were not actually part of the case, and have no business commenting. Many of them also couch their comments in words that make it clear they are just guessing and not positive, yet the viewer comes away acting like it was sworn testimony delivered with 100% certainty. Experts rarely assert 100% certainty.

Actually it is common to hear experts assert things with 100-percent certainty -- paid experts on the witness stand there to sway a jury. It's pretty interesting to watch them twist and limbo through cross examination. They either get indignant and stick to their guns come hell or high water, or they have to grudgingly back off the 100-percent.

That's precisely what people don't understand when they watch talking head "experts" in these programs. They stand up there, paid to make a pronouncement without having to face any questioning into their assertions, or their background, education and reasoning behind their conclusions. The head of psychiatry at a really good hospital here in our metro area testifies as an expert all of the time. He is also a professor of psychiatry at a university. He knows his stuff. He also is renowned for being very facile in how he applies facts and context in his opinions. It's truly a marvel to watch. Lots of attorneys come in to watch if they're in the building and have a few minutes to watch him during cross.

 

[msjprincess]

Was talking with some people here at work who tell me that things got really bad between the police and the prosecutor, so much so that the prosecutor brought in a special investigator to bring fresh eyes to the case. Apparently the special investigator, an actual police detective by the way, found several key pieces of evidence pointed away from the family. The prosecutor then decided not to pursue the family, convinced they didn't do it. Eventually a special prosecutor was brought in and attempted to both shut out the special investigator AND destroy all of his evidence and files. That is beyond the bounds of anything remotely close to good investigation or appropriate prosecution.

That was Lou Smit. He said he went into the case thinking the Ramseys did it because of the evidence he had heard beforehand. But after doing his own investigation he thought it was an intruder. He's the one who climbed through the basement window after Boulder police said there was no way an adult could fit in that window.

 

[msjprincess]

I watched the CBS show and it was laughably bad, IMHO. They lost me in the beginning when they "enhanced" the 911 audio and used some very vivid imaginations to declare what had been "said." It reminded me of those ghost hunter shows when they listen to the audio and all you can hear is a bunch of static, yet they declare that the spirit said as clear as day, "Get out of my house or die!" As if it's a fact.

And the gray haired, bearded FBI guy is an apologist for the police dept. In 20 years, no one has claimed anything other than the police stupidly sent John Ramsey and a friend to go search the house, supposedly to keep his mind occupied. whatever that means. FBI guy makes it sounds like Ramsey knew the police were about to start searching, so he bolted downstairs, straight to the body and beat them to the punch. Talk about spin.

I also thought the rumor that John Ramsey was missing for over an hour had long been debunked, yet they state it as fact.

That photographer "friend" cannot get on TV too many times. She whines that the Ramseys cut her off. I'd have cut her off too, since she's pretty clear that talking to the police was the least of what she did right after the murder. She yakked to every reporter who showed up on her doorstep. When it's clear the police are targeting you and the media is helping them paint you as killers on a daily basis, I'd ask my friends to not talk to the media either. With friends like Chatty Cathy, who continues to say Burke "hit JonBenet in the head with a golf club" even though the truth is she walked up behind him when he was hitting golf balls and was accidentally hit by his backswing, who needs enemies? Of course they cut her off.

The list goes on and on. It's the Boulder PD all over again. Reach a conclusion and then make the facts fit, no matter how much evidence you have to ignore to accomplish that. Probably every single one of the 6 experts is about to peddle a book.

Yes that was one of the fake leaks.

 

[cabanafrau]

That was Lou Smit. He said he went into the case thinking the Ramseys did it because of the evidence he had heard beforehand. But after doing his own investigation he thought it was an intruder. He's the one who climbed through the basement window after Boulder police said there was no way an adult could fit in that window.

The actions of the police in this case are sickening. Apparently there is a claim from an officer who says they were in the house that morning and they put their hand on their gun because they realized they were "in the house with a murderer". For me, if their judgment was so poor that they thought they needed their hand on their sidearm in that situation they have no business being entrusted with one.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes that was one of the fake leaks.

So a fake leak that is still being relied upon decades later?

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Many times, it seems, conflicting "experts" testify with 100% certainly during a trial. Once the jury gets the case, it comes down to, who was more believable. In fact, it ends up being who was more believable to more of the jury.

Because each jury member brings with them their life experiences. They bring their own background. And they may come to very different conclusions than what might be expected.

You may hear an expert and think, "what a joke." They might hear the same expert and hand on every word.

 

[msjprincess]

The actions of the police in this case are sickening. Apparently there is a claim from an officer who says they were in the house that morning and they put their hand on their gun because they realized they were "in the house with a murderer". For me, if their judgment was so poor that they thought they needed their hand on their sidearm in that situation they have no business being entrusted with one.

I know, it's crazy. https://www.romper.com/p/who-is-lin...ive-at-the-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-scene-18234




"I see John Ramsey carrying JonBenét up the last three steps from the basement, and my mind exploded," Arndt told ABC News. "And everything I that I had noted that morning, that stuck out, instantly made sense."

She continued, "JonBenét was clearly dead, and she's been dead for awhile. I ordered him to put JonBenét down, I knelt next to her and I leaned down to her face, and John leaned down opposite me and his was just inches from mine and we had a non-verbal exchange that I'll never forget."

Arndt said in the interview that she instructed John to call 911, and she tucked her gun closely to her and consciously counted the 18 bullets in it.

The interviewer asked Arndt, "You were afraid because you thought the killer was still be in the house?"

"I knew it," she replied.

The Ramseys were never charged in their daughter's case and, as their attorney mentioned, were officially exonerated.

http://thecabin.net/stories/091399/wor_0913990010.html#.V9__HlsrIdU



"We had a nonverbal exchange that I will never forget. ... And as we looked at each other, I remember, and I wore a shoulder holster, tucking my gun right next to me and consciously counting out the 18 bullets."

She was asked why, and replied:

"'Cause I didn't know if we'd all be alive when people showed up."

 

[Miskey]

Simply put, it's my opinion that the Boulder police department was incompetent and lazy and what they did to the Ramsey's was reprehensible, bordering on criminal.

As far as people that continue to blame the Ramsey's, well, I put them in the same basket I put the people that insist Sandy Hook was a hoax

 

[msjprincess]

So a fake leak that is still being relied upon decades later?

Apparently

 

[cabanafrau]

I know, it's crazy. https://www.romper.com/p/who-is-lin...ive-at-the-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-scene-18234




"I see John Ramsey carrying JonBenét up the last three steps from the basement, and my mind exploded," Arndt told ABC News. "And everything I that I had noted that morning, that stuck out, instantly made sense."

She continued, "JonBenét was clearly dead, and she's been dead for awhile. I ordered him to put JonBenét down, I knelt next to her and I leaned down to her face, and John leaned down opposite me and his was just inches from mine and we had a non-verbal exchange that I'll never forget."

Arndt said in the interview that she instructed John to call 911, and she tucked her gun closely to her and consciously counted the 18 bullets in it.

The interviewer asked Arndt, "You were afraid because you thought the killer was still be in the house?"

"I knew it," she replied.

The Ramseys were never charged in their daughter's case and, as their attorney mentioned, were officially exonerated.

http://thecabin.net/stories/091399/wor_0913990010.html#.V9__HlsrIdU



"We had a nonverbal exchange that I will never forget. ... And as we looked at each other, I remember, and I wore a shoulder holster, tucking my gun right next to me and consciously counting out the 18 bullets."

She was asked why, and replied:

"'Cause I didn't know if we'd all be alive when people showed up."

Wow. Wonder if she was the same brain trust who asked him to do the search?

Should not be allowed a gun, or a badge IMO. Maybe covering her mistakes explains why the police dug their heels in so hard.

 

[stitch'sgirl]

The actions of the police in this case are sickening. Apparently there is a claim from an officer who says they were in the house that morning and they put their hand on their gun because they realized they were "in the house with a murderer". For me, if their judgment was so poor that they thought they needed their hand on their sidearm in that situation they have no business being entrusted with one.

Was that the officer that said she counted the bullets in her firearm and counted the people in the house to make sure she had enough bullets in case she had to take everyone down?

 

[msjprincess]

Wow. Wonder if she was the same brain trust who asked him to do the search?

Should not be allowed a gun, or a badge IMO. Maybe covering her mistakes explains why the police dug their heels in so hard.

Yes she is

At 1:01 p.m., in an attempt to break the mounting tension in the house, Arndt said, she instructed John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White to search the house again and look for anything suspicious, even though it had already been gone through by officers earlier in the morning. According to ABC News, Arndt said she told them not to touch anything and they then headed for the basement. Soon after, there were screams from the basement for an ambulance.

 

[cabanafrau]

Was that the officer that said she counted the bullets in her firearm and counted the people in the house to make sure she had enough bullets in case she had to take everyone down?

That's what msjprincess quoted above from an interview. I didn't know that until I read it above because I was told about the officer from someone I work with. I haven't watched the programs about the case.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes she is

At 1:01 p.m., in an attempt to break the mounting tension in the house, Arndt said, she instructed John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White to search the house again and look for anything suspicious, even though it had already been gone through by officers earlier in the morning. According to ABC News, Arndt said she told them not to touch anything and they then headed for the basement. Soon after, there were screams from the basement for an ambulance.

She may have also been one of the officers involved in or supervising the search. Coincidentally, when that body was found the mistakes made in preservation of the scene became even more consequential. All of that points to police officers coming to a realization they needed to shield their own behinds. Deflection is an excellent means of doing so.