Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread--Part 7

[redrosesix]

That is so interesting! The two different defences, I mean. I look forward to what your brother has to say.

Dang, If it were not for the kids, I could approach this academically.

But my heart bleeds for the children right now.

Here's what I have so far, and this is where there may be a huge difference between Canadian and US law (I'm not sure) but the contract wouldn't be valid in terms of the children here because children are considered individuals constitutionally here. Their parents could sign for them if they were acting in a movie or something on their own, but they wouldn't be able to sign for them in a contract from which they also benefit (it's a conflict of interest position) -- they'd have to have a GAL or at the very least their own representation ie one lawyer for each kid. The contract would also have to specify how much each child would earn in return for their services. But this doesn't let Jon off the hook -- it just means Mady or Cara could choose not to film, could do interviews where they complain about TLC, etc. without any penalty.

And yes, the petition makes it sound like the kids are working, because Jon and Kate agree to provide their services.

As for Jon, he may have a case if he can show that there was insufficient consideration to make the contract valid eg. I can offer to sell you my house for $1 but the courts wouldn't uphold the contract if you accepted because it is not the fair market value of my house. If TLC arbitrarily prevented him from doing additional work, same as Kate, so that he did not receive the income that he had expected, he might have a case.

The other point he made is that this doesn't mean that Jon and Kate necessarily did anything wrong when they signed the contract, because contracts are nullified every day. If the two parties have a good relationship, they simply go back to the contract and adjust it so that it's legal.

Williams and Connolly, is the D.C. law firm that TLC has hired and from various articles I have read they are brutal and do not take frivolous lawsuits. I think Mr. Sleazy is out of his league.

Oh yes, this is soooo true.

The plaintiff nor the defendant need to be anonymous to the jury in order to get a fair trial.


If that were the case--then celebrities would never get a fair trial....and they do. As do extremely high profile cases.

They only need to be an impartial jury ie. they haven't already made up their minds about the case and will consider only the evidence presented in court, not what they've heard or read before the trial.

 

[ma2jr]

They still get re-run money...

 

[redrosesix]

I think their rep is "scorched earth." Translation (IMO): utterly ruthless, could care less, and anything for a buck, frivolous or not.

The suit they filed seems more "spaghetti" to me. As in: chuck the spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks.

Whatever. I think this case will perhaps make law. It is clear that PA is still investigating and has not yet ruled on the violations of child labor law.

I am imagining (fantasizing) the Gosselin Law. For the Protection of Children of Reality TV against their idiotic, selfish and self-serving parents and various money grubbing Cable networks.

I don't know. The hypothetical Gosselin Law sounds pretty good to me right now, but it might come too late for the Gosselin children.

That sounds good to me -- I think you Americans should start lobbying Paul Peterson and the other groups to make some statements right now, before filming resumes.

ETA: Re your wish for a GAL, I pulled this of the A Minor Consideration website:
Motion to Dismiss First Amended Petition is Denied

THE COURT HAVING TAKEN THE MATTER UNDER SUBMISSION ON 8/20/09 NOW RULES:

Motion to Dismiss First Amended Petition is Denied. Probate Code Section 1510(a) permits “a relative or other person on behalf of minor” to file a Petition for Appointment of Guardian. There is no statutory requirement such a petitioner must be an “interested person” or enjoy any type of relationship with the minor or minors named in the petition. As the paramount concern in guardianships is the best interests of children, the legislature has not restricted the class of individuals who may petition seeking to protect those interests. In issuing this ruling the Court does not evaluate the underlying merits of the petition.

Any determination will occur as part of the orderly procedural process accorded all guardianship petitions.

As provided by Probate Code Section 1513(a) the Court now invites the Department of Social Services to conduct an investigation and file with the court a report and recommendation concerning the proposed guardianship of the estates of the named minors. Such report is to be filed with the court on or before October 29, 2009.

The August 31, 2009 hearing date currently scheduled on this matter is continued to be heard at 1: 30 pm in Department L73 on October 29, 2009.

So I guess even you could get a GAL appointed Walden

 

[madge]

They still get re-run money...

maybe. it's unclear about that aspect of the contract .. unless something was disclosed this afternoon.

 

[redrosesix]

maybe. it's unclear about that aspect of the contract .. unless something was disclosed this afternoon.

I'm certain either Kate or both of them have said they get royalties on DVD sales, but I've never seen anything definitive on re-runs.

 

[redrosesix]

One last post for the day - I have sewing to do -- famous last words LOL

For anybody who feels strongly enough, here's a site for an electronic petition to cancel the show:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/cancel-jon-kate-plus-8

 

[madge]

I'm certain either Kate or both of them have said they get royalties on DVD sales, but I've never seen anything definitive on re-runs.

that's what I thought, too.

I don't think they can syndicate, but I can't remember why. It's been a long day. LOL

 

[3prettyprincesses]

A little OT here but, I just saw a commercial for the Table for 12 family. Apparently they're still on and new episodes start next Monday. It was a quick blurb for a screening of the kid's movie Astro Boy. Reminds me soooo much of J&K+8...they went into a private screening of the movie which doesn't even come out to the theaters till Oct. 23rd. I really hope this family doesn't follow in J&K's footsteps.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Anyone watch ET tonight? They showed Jon picking up the kids from the bus and then showed Kate pulling into the driveway at the house last night. It's Jon's custody time. They showed Jon outside talking to the paps, they asked him why Kate was at the house and he said Kate came to the house to work out???? He said she was supposed to work out in the afternoon, but she came later and stayed really late. Then he shrugged his shoulders and said "I took the high road."

Is that weird or what? Kate went there to work out? Jon let her? I wonder if they spoke.

 

[madge]

Anyone watch ET tonight? They showed Jon picking up the kids from the bus and then showed Kate pulling into the driveway at the house last night. It's Jon's custody time. They showed Jon outside talking to the paps, they asked him why Kate was at the house and he said Kate came to the house to work out???? He said she was supposed to work out in the afternoon, but she came later and stayed really late. Then he shrugged his shoulders and said "I took the high road."

Is that weird or what? Kate went there to work out? Jon let her? I wonder if they spoke.

I didn't watch .. (it's officially basketball season in Kentucky -- Big Blue Madness, baby! ) but I have a question ..

when does all this become a point of "who cares?" to the general public. I mean, seriously .. when do these clowns stop being the news? and I know that the simple answer is when we stop watching, but I don't think it's as simple as that... because Jon and Kate won't go away.

 

[redrosesix]

Anyone watch ET tonight? They showed Jon picking up the kids from the bus and then showed Kate pulling into the driveway at the house last night. It's Jon's custody time. They showed Jon outside talking to the paps, they asked him why Kate was at the house and he said Kate came to the house to work out???? He said she was supposed to work out in the afternoon, but she came later and stayed really late. Then he shrugged his shoulders and said "I took the high road."

Is that weird or what? Kate went there to work out? Jon let her? I wonder if they spoke.

Missed it...dang

That is so weird. Is this part of the epiphany?

But, but, but. That doesn't explain Kate.

I didn't watch .. (it's officially basketball season in Kentucky -- Big Blue Madness, baby! ) but I have a question ..

when does all this become a point of "who cares?" to the general public. I mean, seriously .. when do these clowns stop being the news? and I know that the simple answer is when we stop watching, but I don't think it's as simple as that... because Jon and Kate won't go away.

I don't know Madge. The comments I'm seeing on the articles and the blogs these days are more about the kids now. Yes, there's a lot of hatred towards the parents, especially Jon, but so many comments of "I don't care why he did it -- I'm glad the kids are off the show." Makes me think the current battle between Jon and TLC is just going to create more interest. But not the kind that will bring the show back.

And there seems to be a real backlash against the idea of MJ's kids being put on the Jackson family reality show starting in Dec. and IMO that might make the public look differently at all kids in reality shows. At least that seems to be the gist of the comments I'm reading.

 

[kidshop]

Missed it...dang

That is so weird. Is this part of the epiphany?

But, but, but. That doesn't explain Kate.



I don't know Madge. The comments I'm seeing on the articles and the blogs these days are more about the kids now. Yes, there's a lot of hatred towards the parents, especially Jon, but so many comments of "I don't care why he did it -- I'm glad the kids are off the show." Makes me think the current battle between Jon and TLC is just going to create more interest. But not the kind that will bring the show back.

And there seems to be a real backlash against the idea of MJ's kids being put on the Jackson family reality show starting in Dec. and IMO that might make the public look differently at all kids in reality shows. At least that seems to be the gist of the comments I'm reading.

MJ would NOT want his kids on a reality show on tv! We have already had the Jackson family show and it did not turn out well, no sense in ruining another generation. I think I will revise my will so that no one under any circumstance can put my kids on tv in any capacity until they turn 18 and can decide for themselves. (I'm only half-joking)

 

[madge]

Makes me think the current battle between Jon and TLC is just going to create more interest. But not the kind that will bring the show back.

like the money, I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceburg with this contract thing.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

like the money, I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceburg with this contract thing.

Oh, I agree. I went back and re-read TLC's petition against Jon. Did anyone notice that they said they control which family members are filmed? Please tell me that didn't apply to the children.

I also noticed that they are claiming $30,000 in compensatory damages which they expect Jon to repay as well as the lawyer fees for TLC. Not to mention any $ he made doing appearances.

Another thing I noticed was that they demanded Jon be there for filming on Sept. 24th (which he didn't do). TLC also claims they tried to contact Jon to discuss the new show's direction. On Sept. 29th TLC released that statement about changing the show to Kate+8. Now, based on that timeline, Jon must have already been thinking (trying?) to get the kids off the show before TLC made their announcement on the 29th? He was supposed to be there for filming with the kids on Thursday, Sept. 24th. He doesn't film nor do the kids. Then on the 29th TLC changes the show and Jon finds out apparently by reading it online. I smell something fishy here. Isn't it suspect too that TLC is claiming that Jon's lawyer contacted them and gave them 1 hour to release Jon from his contractual obligations? Or else Jon would demand the filming of his children cease. Where is the proof of this? Was it written? Was it verbal? I highly doubt it was verbal which makes me think it was written. If so, then why haven't we heard about that document? Somebody is lying or with-holding information here.

 

[redrosesix]

Oh, I agree. I went back and re-read TLC's petition against Jon. Did anyone notice that they said they control which family members are filmed? Please tell me that didn't apply to the children.

I also noticed that they are claiming $30,000 in compensatory damages which they expect Jon to repay as well as the lawyer fees for TLC. Not to mention any $ he made doing appearances.

Another thing I noticed was that they demanded Jon be there for filming on Sept. 24th (which he didn't do). TLC also claims they tried to contact Jon to discuss the new show's direction. On Sept. 29th TLC released that statement about changing the show to Kate+8. Now, based on that timeline, Jon must have already been thinking (trying?) to get the kids off the show before TLC made their announcement on the 29th? He was supposed to be there for filming with the kids on Thursday, Sept. 24th. He doesn't film nor do the kids. Then on the 29th TLC changes the show and Jon finds out apparently by reading it online. I smell something fishy here. Isn't it suspect too that TLC is claiming that Jon's lawyer contacted them and gave them 1 hour to release Jon from his contractual obligations? Or else Jon would demand the filming of his children cease. Where is the proof of this? Was it written? Was it verbal? I highly doubt it was verbal which makes me think it was written. If so, then why haven't we heard about that document? Somebody is lying or with-holding information here.

I could be mistaken, but didn't one of the articles say that Heller telephoned them?

I missed the part where they said they tried to contact Jon in advance of their announcement. Well, add to that something that Kate said in the last Today show interview that I didn't even notice until I watched it again today -- she was in negotiations with TLC to cut Jon out of the show. She said she didn't make the final decision, but she knew all about it before it happened (which makes sense, because she is the Kate in Kate + 8) I think she said Jon didn't know, though -- I'll have to go and watch that again.

I still think Jon made the first move by trying to negotiate his way out, otherwise they wouldn't have had a LKL show lined up when they made their announcement that he was ended filming on his property. And that is likely why he didn't film the previous week.

 

[hbkfan637]

To me though, that's no different than home movies that people take and post on youtube or acting like that in every day life. My kids have seen my DH and I fight, I've said some not so nice things to DH in front of my kids, I've freaked out over things, have home videos and pictures of "private" things like bath time and stuff like that, made my kids sit through family photo shoots in parks and things instead of letting them run wild (they did get to once we were done), my kids have had cameras in their face since they minute they came out, and I've dragged them many a place to give them what I didn't have growing up. I know I'm not mom of the year, but I don't think I'm an awful mom either. Now I know my experiences don't rival the Gosselins simply because my family's not on tv, but mom freaking out in the store with kids from you class present is just as bad if you're on tv or not IMO - the kids would talk either way.

I agree that the shows are like home videos. The show is also heavily edited so while J&K viewers look back on a moment where it seemed like Kate was berating Jon, the same moment could be completely different in the kids' memory (like both their parents arguing). Even Jon has said that TLC edits Kate to make her look mean and made it seem like they never resolved their problems.

The separation paperwork was filed the day the BIG ANNOUNCEMENT EPISODE aired.

So they are legally separated.

I think Kate filed for divorce, not for a separation. I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a difference.

My view is a bit different, surprised?

TLC is a business, bottom line and Jon did not fulfill his end of the bargain. They have every right to take him to court. And the David and Goliath image that Mark Heller is trying to put out there doesn't work since J & K had representation when they signed. The first contract I can believe that they didn't know what they were doing but not the most recent one. He should have taken legal avenues to end this but it only became an issue for Jon when he couldn't pursue other interests such as the Divorced Dads Club.

I think the difference for TLC was that Jon has been a loose cannon for so long now. Reports of a different woman weekly, partying, smoking, affairs with 20 somethings that use drugs and the photographic evidence of such is all over everywhere. Now we have "claims" of Jon tampering with cell phones, computers, stealing money and smoking pot. Of course they don't want him giving interviews, look what happens every time he does...it just gets worse. I think TLC should have put a gag order on Kate as well though just because these are private matters and none of our business.

I agree! TLC is a business and Jon broke his contract.

They still get re-run money...

I heard that reality stars do not get money off re-runs. Actors and actresses do because they are unionized through SAG.

And there seems to be a real backlash against the idea of MJ's kids being put on the Jackson family reality show starting in Dec. and IMO that might make the public look differently at all kids in reality shows. At least that seems to be the gist of the comments I'm reading.

I think how MJ went to extreme measures to keep his kids out of the spotlight when he was alive is why there's a backlash - not because they are kids doing a reality show.

 

[redrosesix]

Apparently, TLC has opened up the home page on their official facebook page for comments:
http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=srp&sfxp=&o=69&q=jon+%26+kate#/JonandKatePlusEight

It had been closed to comments since May, but they reopened it yesterday (I'm assuming after they made their lawsuit against Jon public) So what does that mean? Are they realizing they might lose in the court of public opinion even if they think they have a winnable case?

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

Anyone watch ET tonight? They showed Jon picking up the kids from the bus and then showed Kate pulling into the driveway at the house last night. It's Jon's custody time. They showed Jon outside talking to the paps, they asked him why Kate was at the house and he said Kate came to the house to work out???? He said she was supposed to work out in the afternoon, but she came later and stayed really late. Then he shrugged his shoulders and said "I took the high road."

Is that weird or what? Kate went there to work out? Jon let her? I wonder if they spoke.

That is weird.

Hopefully, it is a sign of some kind of truce between these two.

 

[DMRick]

I'm all caught up...thanks for not going too fast.

Separation of stuff is really up to arbritation, and sometimes it's not equitable, depending on how it goes. Sometimes the person with physical custody does get to keep their house until the last child is 18. Sometimes the non custodial even has to do upkeep. It all depends on the agreement. With J & K, I doubt it will go easy, but I hope the kids get to stay in teh house for now, if it's affordable.

I do hope that someone legal tells these guys to to shut up and stop giving all the info to the public.

 

[madge]

Oh, I agree. I went back and re-read TLC's petition against Jon. Did anyone notice that they said they control which family members are filmed? Please tell me that didn't apply to the children.

I thought the same thing. whatever happened to the idea that if the kids didn't want to be filmed, then they didn't have to?