Jon and Kate Plus 8 Official Thread - Part 5

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I guess being on the road, tanning, teeth whitening, shopping, starbucks, she kinda wasn't thinking about the crooked houses:goodvibes That was a big project and with that many people invilved it would have been nice of her to speak up than wait till the day of. I bet those guys had families they wanted to get home to and not be put in the middle of a marital dispute.They just wanted to put up those houses.
Sorry to hear about your past relationship, it sounds like you are much better off:lovestruc

This just strikes me as funny. It's not like many people don't tan, grocery shop, get coffee and get their teeth cleaned. None of those things take much time, and there is nothing wrong with someone doing all of the above. Kate does a lot of things differently from me, but I don't consider doing any or all of those things a bad thing.

Do we know just when Kate realized where the houses were going to go? She did say she hadn't walked down to the spot, but I have no idea just when she learned where it was. Maybe Jon did some clearing a few months back, and finished it the day they were coming. I think they have stayed away from each other for months. Kate did say she thought things would be better when they got the house Jon wanted, but instead, he didn't even want her in the house, so she went on tour. Maybe that's when he worked on the area.

I can't imagine having the houses as far away as those woods (and man, when you google earth it, it was a ways to the woods). If some freak got on the land and went to that area, they wouldn't even have been able to hear them scream from the house. I dont' know too many mother's or father's who can be outside the entire time the kids want to play. I would never place my 5 year olds play house so far away from the main house.
 
I must have missed a bunch of the reportings on how much Kate was gone. She didn't go on tour with the first book, but her and Jon did have some speech time. She went on tour with the second book and was gone for that..but it's not like she worked for years and traveled. It was actually a pretty short time, wasn't it? I remember seeing a posting someone made with the actual tour time out, and I thought then..this isn't so much. Now it's being made to sound like she was never home, when in fact she was home and with their kids a lot.

I always thought even when I was pro Jon, that he was very immature and it was like Kate had another child. He could be rough with the kids, he did some arm grabbing and wasn't always pleasant to them. He made it clear that he didn't like being there with all the kids and would rather work. He should have said no, I don't want to be a sahd, but I"m thinking he was thinking about the money Kate was pulling in while those books made the best sellers list. He gave pretty good to Kate, just did it more quietly. As I've said in the past, neither of them were very respectful and I think they will be much happier apart. I think the kids will be too.
Jon would have had to be pretty stupid if he thought his outings wouldn't have been caught on camera, which just shows me again, that he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and was a bit immature. Even if there was an 'agreement' that he could cheat, how stupid to be caught out the way he was.
 
Yes, I think they were already separated a long time ago. Everything that's come out since the divorce announcement points to that, despite TLC's efforts to cover that up -- they both carried on with the charade for the sake of the show (which he clearly wanted out of).

I know that it's been said before, but I'll bother to say it again -- sure, Jon's behaviour wasn't acceptable (not because they were still a "married couple" at the time, but because he did it in public for people to talk about and for his children to see) but neither was Kate's (because years from now those kids can look back on all of those episodes and see how their mother talked to their father -- they might forget how bad things were at home, will probably block it out, but the episodes will live on forever) Neither one of them, and JMHO especially Kate have really fathomed the effect that this show will have on their kids, now or in the future.

Kate playing the victim now really doesn't work.

Will they edit the episodes they re-run? They have already done that I have heard, like with gum-gate. They don't show it like it originally aired. I don't know if the dvd's are original, I guess those would live forever.

I will say it again that what Jon said himself is the reason for his change. He let Kate call the shots all those years...now he stands up for himself. We don't know what happened, kate could very well be at fault. So far, every one has denied Jon has had an affair; Jon, Kate and Deanna.

If Kate had even once treated Jon with respect and love, maybe I could buy the 'poor me all alone' charade. But she didn't and I don't.
 
This just strikes me as funny. It's not like many people don't tan, grocery shop, get coffee and get their teeth cleaned. None of those things take much time, and there is nothing wrong with someone doing all of the above. Kate does a lot of things differently from me, but I don't consider doing any or all of those things a bad thing.

Do we know just when Kate realized where the houses were going to go? She did say she hadn't walked down to the spot, but I have no idea just when she learned where it was. Maybe Jon did some clearing a few months back, and finished it the day they were coming. I think they have stayed away from each other for months. Kate did say she thought things would be better when they got the house Jon wanted, but instead, he didn't even want her in the house, so she went on tour. Maybe that's when he worked on the area.

I can't imagine having the houses as far away as those woods (and man, when you google earth it, it was a ways to the woods). If some freak got on the land and went to that area, they wouldn't even have been able to hear them scream from the house. I dont' know too many mother's or father's who can be outside the entire time the kids want to play. I would never place my 5 year olds play house so far away from the main house.

I agree. I couldn't believe he wanted to put those houses that far away...I am a pretty easy going parent, but no way would I want my 5 year olds playing that far from the house alone.
 

I can't imagine having the houses as far away as those woods (and man, when you google earth it, it was a ways to the woods). If some freak got on the land and went to that area, they wouldn't even have been able to hear them scream from the house. I dont' know too many mother's or father's who can be outside the entire time the kids want to play. I would never place my 5 year olds play house so far away from the main house.

I agree. I couldn't believe he wanted to put those houses that far away...I am a pretty easy going parent, but no way would I want my 5 year olds playing that far from the house alone.

I re-watched the episode and the spot he cleared was far away. It was literally all the way down the path past the barn and in the woods. That's too far IMO for both the tups and Cara & Mady. Here's a link to see just how far:

http://www.dlee.us/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dlee-jonandkatehouse.jpg

The tups were running down that path past the barn and into the woods. It looks pretty far from the house if you ask me.
 
I must have missed a bunch of the reportings on how much Kate was gone. She didn't go on tour with the first book, but her and Jon did have some speech time. She went on tour with the second book and was gone for that..but it's not like she worked for years and traveled. It was actually a pretty short time, wasn't it? I remember seeing a posting someone made with the actual tour time out, and I thought then..this isn't so much. Now it's being made to sound like she was never home, when in fact she was home and with their kids a lot.

You didn't miss anything. ;)

Kate and Jon used to travel together as you said for the first book and for speaking engagements. Jon didn't want to do that anymore, so Kate went on tour for the second book alone. The second book tour lasted several months and that is about the extent of it. She was not gone that entire time as she would go home to be with the kids when it was possible.
 
I don't think anyone here is disputing Kate being right about where the houses should go. The load of crap is her being afraid to say something to Jon, Playing the meek little timid wife who is afraid to voice her opinion.

And as far as Jon being rough with the kids and the arm pulling, have you ever seen the early video's of kate lifting the babies by the arms? I guess not, cause that was even more disturbing.
 
/
About John wanting out of the show - he may hate the cameras, but he is enjoying the $$ and the perks doing the show provides - the car, his clothes, motorcycle, hair plugs, vacations, etc. I think he is in for a rude awakening if he goes back into the workforce.
 
I think things had changed enough between Jon and Kate that she was indeed afraid to approach him about the houses. He will not talk to her and that is being unreasonable. I think she was trying to keep the peace and let him do it where he wanted but in the end, just could not. His choice was not thought out very well.

Tina, I think Jon will get paid for being Jon now--or at least for awhile. Sorta like Tom Arnold or some other no talent, has been. He may make more money than he deserves and she as well. Neither will go back to being regular people. They'll ride this one for a long time, I'm afraid.
 
This just strikes me as funny. It's not like many people don't tan, grocery shop, get coffee and get their teeth cleaned. None of those things take much time, and there is nothing wrong with someone doing all of the above. Kate does a lot of things differently from me, but I don't consider doing any or all of those things a bad thing.

Do we know just when Kate realized where the houses were going to go? She did say she hadn't walked down to the spot, but I have no idea just when she learned where it was. Maybe Jon did some clearing a few months back, and finished it the day they were coming. I think they have stayed away from each other for months. Kate did say she thought things would be better when they got the house Jon wanted, but instead, he didn't even want her in the house, so she went on tour. Maybe that's when he worked on the area.

I can't imagine having the houses as far away as those woods (and man, when you google earth it, it was a ways to the woods). If some freak got on the land and went to that area, they wouldn't even have been able to hear them scream from the house. I dont' know too many mother's or father's who can be outside the entire time the kids want to play. I would never place my 5 year olds play house so far away from the main house.


i don't know the gosselin's property layout but we live on 10 acres and happen to be in the process of building and placing a "clubhouse" for our son so i will share that it can be tremendously beneficial to have that type of thing "far away" from one's home as a tremendous benefit safety wise for a child. in our case, setting the playhouse "far away" provides us the security of having our home in between the only access to our property (so we can observe anyone approaching the access to the area as well as having our neighbors property backing up to it so their houses are in between their entrances and the structure) , as well as keeps our child from playing near any area that is frequented by traffic (on multiple acreage it's not uncommon for postal service, fed express, fuel tankers, pest control to come barreling up on what they perceive to be open land for parking). as far as communication our child will have an open line walkie talkie type device (similar to a baby monitor) in the structure as well as on his person at all times (5 mile radius-we've checked it out with vehicals traveling as well as on property). to prepare the land it not only entails clearing but leveling and determining the soil composition (you put a structure on bare soil with certain atributes and you are looking at inviting wet or dry rot, infestation of insects or ground dwelling rodents, and general excellarated decay of the structure)-it's not something a person just decides in a day (that is unless they have no concern to weather the structure will be utilized by the child or available for utilization beyond a very short time period).

can't speak to how well the gosselines communicate on this type of issue but we had to make extensive preplanning before deciding on placement-if it's a snow prevelant area you have to look at overgrowth (don't want the structure to collapse first winter), undergrowth (don't want tick or other insect prone undergrowth around the structure), water access and mowing access (keep the bad growth down, encourage the good-plus hosing down for general cleaning as well as -god forbid- fire safety).

i'm guessing not much planning on the gosselin's part went into this whole playhouse thing because if it had been left to them as would be the norm with a private party embarking on this, there would have been more than a quick thought given to placement, and a greater need for consideration and planning of placement than could have been quickly changed in one day.


p.s.-i don't tan (real or spray) nor do the majority of people i know (we grew up with too many other native californians who made that mistake in their younger years and ended up with skin cancer or premature ageing-the spray tanners were a source of ridicule there as they are where we live now), only do teeth cleaning twice a year and even when i worked 12 hours per day/7 days a week managed to do that around the kid's/family demands, getting coffee is the exception not the norm (as it seems to be with most of those i know despite us presently living in the "get coffee" capital of the u.s.), and grocery shopping? given that we (like the gosselins) utilize a freezer for our meat products that only leaves non perishables (produce, dairy and those grains we choose not to freeze) that necessitate regular purchasing (household goods are less expensive to purchase and store in monthly or moreso amounts) so a grocery trip can enjoined (as i did today) with a number of errands such that at best a once a week few hour trip at best is needed (and given that we are a 45 minute round trip from the closest store, could we get our perishables via the internet as we do many other items at a reduced cost from direct purchase/fuel costs-i might never need to shop but once per month:rotfl:).
 
He did say he really enjoys bulldozing down trees. Now they have a campsite. win win.
Me thinks Jon was being a wee bit facetious when he said that.... but perhaps you were too!

In the show Jon said that he'd been working on the site off and on since the Winter. Kate said that she was aware of the site, but hadn't walked down to see it firsthand until the day the truck arrived... and then she freaked out. You're right that Jon wasn't in a mood to "negotiate" where the houses were going and abruptly cut Kate off. Quite honestly, given her track record of undercutting Jon on the spur of the moment and usurping activities, I think the first thought that'd go through my mind would have been "Oh, great... her she goes again!!!" The pièce de résistance to the whole episode was when she stepped in and told the Crooked House people "Don't listen to him... I'm in charge and we're putting the houses over there!" While I agree that in the end the site near the house was probably better, this is a case of arriving at the "correct" solution in a very "incorrect" manner.

I thought that was just a rumor! Well I guess not then. I wonder too who made that decision. :confused3
I'm guessing that as Healthtex has watched the "J&K" brand go into free-fall in the last week and they're not too wild about the thought of paying to produce a bunch of inventory that they fear won't move.
 
I don't think anyone here is disputing Kate being right about where the houses should go. The load of crap is her being afraid to say something to Jon, Playing the meek little timid wife who is afraid to voice her opinion.

And as far as Jon being rough with the kids and the arm pulling, have you ever seen the early video's of kate lifting the babies by the arms? I guess not, cause that was even more disturbing.

I did, and it has been discussed. I guess I should have said, I have seen Jon pull on the arms of the kids in anger.

I happened to believe her, that she didn't want to say anything to Jon. They admitted to a lot of arguing, some in front of the kids. I believe she thought this would make Jon blow his top. I assume, from what other's have told me, that when you are not getting along with your husband, you try to keep the peace as best you can, if you want to stop the arguing. All I got out of Kate saying that (never thought she was trying to be timid) was that she was tired of arguing and if she said something, it would be a big argument.

I guess I don't see that Jon (or Kate) has been this shrinking violet. I've heard him kick back to her. Yes, he took a lot on the camera, but that was up to him. He didn't have to. I haven't heard where Kate beat him..he looks like he could have handled himself. He had no problem getting into this, and at any time he could have refused to sign a contract, or even to be a part of this.

Most men, if they want to stay with their families seek help. I have thought for some time Jon wanted out, and I think (as in this is my opinion) he was in it for the money, and now he has some and he can go play.

Will Kate go play as well? I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
Jon had his teeth whitened too, they actually went together didn't they? Shopping? Do you mean Target, the grocery store and the party store? I go there too without my kids. Starbucks? Yup, I go there too (waaaay too many times a week!). :goodvibes She was out on the book tour, not going on vacations or hitting up bars.

What's Jon been doing when he was supposed to be home with the kids? Bar hopping and hanging out with his 'girlfriend'. How about skipping out on Kate's b-day to go to Utah with his girlfriend. When you compare the two, Kate doesn't look so bad IMO.

Back on topic...as far as the crooked houses go (I still think they are over-priced and teeny tiny inside) Kate said Jon decided where they would go originally. She probably assumed he would've picked a spot closer to the house and didn't think about it again till the day of delivery. Given their communication issues of late, they probably haven't had too many discussions about things. With all the ridiculous paparazzi staking out around their property, I'd want the crooked houses closer. I guess that makes me paranoid. Putting them way back in the woods seemed pretty far away to me. I would have made DH (in a nice and loving way of course ;)) move the site closer to the house. But that's just me. It seems like the tups will get more use out of them anyway since they're younger, so having them closer would make me feel better.

The houses should be the least of kate's concerns. Obviously the choices both Kate and Jon have made have not been in the best interest of building a strong family unit. They lost sight of what is really important if they ever had that in view to begin with. The fact that the crooked houses were part of an episode where they announce they are ending their marriages is almost comical. They were, IMOP, both focused on themselves as individuals and money and the results of that is their family is no more.

The workers who were there to deliver, install & set up the houses were there to do just that, and not be brought into a Kate drama filled soap opera of attention getting. Kate was acting like a 3 year . She had ample time to discuss with her husband the placement of the houses, she certainly never had any problems telling people what she wanted done before. As a said before I am sure those folks wanted to get home to their families that day.
 
I'm sorry, I had trouble following this post, but I think you are saying you want your five year old child's tree house far away from the house, and gave the reasons, which I don't think would apply to them, and that's fine. I agree with Kate and I wouldn't want to place ours so far away. It's an individual thing I guess.

We all know about skin cancer (if that was the point you were making), however, it hasn't stopped a multi million (or more) dollar business and a lot of people do it. I have no idea how often Kate gets her teeth whittened..are you saying it's more than twice a year? I have no idea what the norm is.

We have a half dozen Starbucks, and at any given time during the afternoon, I see woman and young kids going in and out of them..they survive nicely, so I guess other people than Kate visit them.

As for grocery's..I've made several trips this week, and I too have a freezer. But the lettuce and fresh veggies don't fare well, and I need milk druing the week, as well as other items that aren't in my freezer.

Sorry, I don't happen to think it makes Kate or anyone else a bad or neglectful mom for going out and doing errands, nor does it mean she isn't spending enough time at home figuring out where to put play houses.

i don't know the gosselin's property layout but we live on 10 acres and happen to be in the process of building and placing a "clubhouse" for our son so i will share that it can be tremendously beneficial to have that type of thing "far away" from one's home as a tremendous benefit safety wise for a child. in our case, setting the playhouse "far away" provides us the security of having our home in between the only access to our property (so we can observe anyone approaching the access to the area as well as having our neighbors property backing up to it so their houses are in between their entrances and the structure) , as well as keeps our child from playing near any area that is frequented by traffic (on multiple acreage it's not uncommon for postal service, fed express, fuel tankers, pest control to come barreling up on what they perceive to be open land for parking). as far as communication our child will have an open line walkie talkie type device (similar to a baby monitor) in the structure as well as on his person at all times (5 mile radius-we've checked it out with vehicals traveling as well as on property). to prepare the land it not only entails clearing but leveling and determining the soil composition (you put a structure on bare soil with certain atributes and you are looking at inviting wet or dry rot, infestation of insects or ground dwelling rodents, and general excellarated decay of the structure)-it's not something a person just decides in a day (that is unless they have no concern to weather the structure will be utilized by the child or available for utilization beyond a very short time period).

can't speak to how well the gosselines communicate on this type of issue but we had to make extensive preplanning before deciding on placement-if it's a snow prevelant area you have to look at overgrowth (don't want the structure to collapse first winter), undergrowth (don't want tick or other insect prone undergrowth around the structure), water access and mowing access (keep the bad growth down, encourage the good-plus hosing down for general cleaning as well as -god forbid- fire safety).

i'm guessing not much planning on the gosselin's part went into this whole playhouse thing because if it had been left to them as would be the norm with a private party embarking on this, there would have been more than a quick thought given to placement, and a greater need for consideration and planning of placement than could have been quickly changed in one day.


p.s.-i don't tan (real or spray) nor do the majority of people i know (we grew up with too many other native californians who made that mistake in their younger years and ended up with skin cancer or premature ageing-the spray tanners were a source of ridicule there as they are where we live now), only do teeth cleaning twice a year and even when i worked 12 hours per day/7 days a week managed to do that around the kid's/family demands, getting coffee is the exception not the norm (as it seems to be with most of those i know despite us presently living in the "get coffee" capital of the u.s.), and grocery shopping? given that we (like the gosselins) utilize a freezer for our meat products that only leaves non perishables (produce, dairy and those grains we choose not to freeze) that necessitate regular purchasing (household goods are less expensive to purchase and store in monthly or moreso amounts) so a grocery trip can enjoined (as i did today) with a number of errands such that at best a once a week few hour trip at best is needed (and given that we are a 45 minute round trip from the closest store, could we get our perishables via the internet as we do many other items at a reduced cost from direct purchase/fuel costs-i might never need to shop but once per month:rotfl:).
 
I'm sorry, I had trouble following this post, but I think you are saying you want your five year old child's tree house far away from the house, and gave the reasons, which I don't think would apply to them, and that's fine. I agree with Kate and I wouldn't want to place ours so far away. It's an individual thing I guess.

We all know about skin cancer (if that was the point you were making), however, it hasn't stopped a multi million (or more) dollar business and a lot of people do it. I have no idea how often Kate gets her teeth whittened..are you saying it's more than twice a year? I have no idea what the norm is.

We have a half dozen Starbucks, and at any given time during the afternoon, I see woman and young kids going in and out of them..they survive nicely, so I guess other people than Kate visit them.

As for grocery's..I've made several trips this week, and I too have a freezer. But the lettuce and fresh veggies don't fare well, and I need milk druing the week, as well as other items that aren't in my freezer.

Sorry, I don't happen to think it makes Kate or anyone else a bad or neglectful mom for going out and doing errands, not does it mean she isn't spending enough time at home figuring out where to put play houses.

nowhere in my post did i say kate or any other mom is/was neglectful for going out and running errands. i'm just responding to your post wherein it seemed to me you spoke to all these errands being the universal norm for moms. you spoke to teeth cleaning-i responded to that not teeth whitening (whitening is an elective purely cosemetic procedure not a dental health maintainance procedure so i suspect it can be done as often/seldom as desired). as for the tanning industry the same can be said of the spa/nail/massage industry-lots of dollars made, lots of people do it-again an elective cosmetic practice that in some regions/populations may be the norm but in likely as many is not. same with coffee runs-elective non necessity (very evident by the number of starbucks and other places closing shops due to the economy).

grocery shopping-i guess it depends on your usage and habits. the organic and non organic veggies we use last for a week to 2, we buy dairy that lasts for the same period of time. i admit i used to shop much more frequently but when we moved to more rural area and the store was'nt right near by my habits changed (and i will admit that our aero garden supplies enough fresh greens for a large family such that purchasing is not the norm).
 
Well, then, I guess we can't even agree to disagree. I disagree with what you are saying. I don't believe the 'viewing public' has changed very much at all. I do agree that many who didn't know much about them tuned in for the train wreck because of the publicity, but now the wreck happened and they have moved on (because they found they still aren't interested) and we are back to the regular viewing public. Just knowing of them, doesn't mean those that didn't watch before will suddenly want to watch now. This is my opinion, and I'll respect yours (I just won't agree with it LOL).

.
Doris, you're more than free to disagree with me, but that shouldn't bar me from pointing out what I perceive as holes in your position. You yourself noted that the publicity preceding a rumored "train wreck" resulted in drawing a crowd. No surprise there as it's well established that promotion and publicity draws people. That publicity was nothing compared to the publicity storm that resulted after they decided to announce their split on national TV. TLC then decides to try and capitalize on the buzz by putting out a special positioned as basically "You've heard the bombshell, now see how it all went wrong in 60 minutes" in the hopes of trying to retain some of the tsunami of viewers before the show went on official "hiatus".

Instead viewership dropped approximately 80% seven days later. Not only did TLC's hopes fail, the special drew about a million fewer eyeball sets that an average show last season and drew several million fewer viewers than the post-premier shows from this season. That's not likely due to people merely getting bored with the series, or thinking "OK the wrecks over" and switching their viewing habits to what they were before all of the controversy started. Given the large percentage of people saying "they're done" with the show in disgust after watching J&K pimp their divorce I think it's a major reason why the rating went over such a steep cliff. That's why I said said that I think we're seeing the first sings of a "backlash".

Corporate America is sensing it too with things like the de facto cancellation of future J&K books as well as the planned line of clothing. I was in our Best Buy tonight, walked down the TV Series DVD aisle and spotted a set of J&K DVDs. I laughed and thought "How long before those are in the dollar bin?" You're welcome to think that this is all just a return to when people were slowly loosing interest in the show, but it's undeniable that many people's perceptions about J&K have clearly changed in just the last few weeks.
 
I don't care if you perceive holes in my positiion LOL. But I do find it funny put that way.

I really don't agree that the publicity was 'nothing' before the announcement LOL. In fact I believe the reason so many watched that night (when they announced the divorce) was because of the publicity before the show (and all the rag mag articles about Jon), not after. And once it was announced, I think the 'new' people said, "oh, is that all" and flew the coup.
I just assumed they put the special out because they didn't want to pay back the advertisers, and it would have looked stupid to put the show they had planned to put on.

They were running about 2 million by the time last season started to wind down..so I wouldn't expect them to be any higher than that now.

So I guess we are back to agreeing to disagree, since I really don't agree with you about why the numbers are down. I think a few stayed around, a few original watchers are gone and they are where they were before February and all the hallaballo.


Doris, you're more than free to agree with me, but that shouldn't bar me from pointing out what I perceive as holes in your position. You yourself noted that the publicity preceding a possible "train wreck" resulted in drawing a crowd. That publicity was nothing compared to the publicity storm that resulted after they decided to announce their split on national TV. TLC then decides to try and capitalize on the buzz by putting out a special positioned as basically "You've heard the bombshell, now see how it all went wrong in 60 minutes" in the hopes of trying to retain some of the tsunami of viewers before the show went on official "hiatus".

Instead viewership dropped approximately 80% seven days later. Not only did TLC's hopes fail, the special drew about a million fewer eyeball sets that an average show last season and drew several million fewer viewers than the post-premier shows from this season. That's not likely due to people merely getting bored with the series, or thinking "OK the wrecks over" and switching their viewing habits to what they were before all of the controversy started. Given the large percentage of people saying "they're done" with the show in disgust after watching J&K pimp their divorce I think it's a major reason why the rating went over such a steep cliff. That's why I said said that I think we're seeing the first sings of a "backlash".

Corporate America is sensing it too with things like the de facto cancellation of future J&K books as well as the planned line of clothing. I was in our Best Buy tonight and was walking down the TV Series DVD aisle and spotted a set of J&K DVDs, laughed, and thought "How long before those are in the dollar bin?"
 
Sorry, I meant teeth whitening..which is what the original post said. You responded to my post that I responded to someone saying Kate was too busy doing all these other things to look at the area of the crooked houses. I still have no idea how many times a year Kate gets her teeth whitened.
Yes, a lot of these things, getting coffee, grocery shopping, tanning, going to the party store..in our area they are the norm. So while it may not be the norm for you, it very well could be for others. I can't imagine having enough milk for two weeks for 10 in my fridge or room for veggies. I just meant to say, and said it in too long a post...it's no big deal that Kate goes out and does errands, just because you don't need to. A family of 10 (or nine, but I assume she feeds the helper) takes a lot of stuff.

nowhere in my post did i say kate or any other mom is/was neglectful for going out and running errands. i'm just responding to your post wherein it seemed to me you spoke to all these errands being the universal norm for moms. you spoke to teeth cleaning-i responded to that not teeth whitening (whitening is an elective purely cosemetic procedure not a dental health maintainance procedure so i suspect it can be done as often/seldom as desired). as for the tanning industry the same can be said of the spa/nail/massage industry-lots of dollars made, lots of people do it-again an elective cosmetic practice that in some regions/populations may be the norm but in likely as many is not. same with coffee runs-elective non necessity (very evident by the number of starbucks and other places closing shops due to the economy).

grocery shopping-i guess it depends on your usage and habits. the organic and non organic veggies we use last for a week to 2, we buy dairy that lasts for the same period of time. i admit i used to shop much more frequently but when we moved to more rural area and the store was'nt right near by my habits changed (and i will admit that our aero garden supplies enough fresh greens for a large family such that purchasing is not the norm).
 
I'm sorry, I had trouble following this post, but I think you are saying you want your five year old child's tree house far away from the house, and gave the reasons, which I don't think would apply to them, and that's fine. I agree with Kate and I wouldn't want to place ours so far away. It's an individual thing I guess.

We all know about skin cancer (if that was the point you were making), however, it hasn't stopped a multi million (or more) dollar business and a lot of people do it. I have no idea how often Kate gets her teeth whittened..are you saying it's more than twice a year? I have no idea what the norm is.

We have a half dozen Starbucks, and at any given time during the afternoon, I see woman and young kids going in and out of them..they survive nicely, so I guess other people than Kate visit them.

As for grocery's..I've made several trips this week, and I too have a freezer. But the lettuce and fresh veggies don't fare well, and I need milk druing the week, as well as other items that aren't in my freezer.

Sorry, I don't happen to think it makes Kate or anyone else a bad or neglectful mom for going out and doing errands, nor does it mean she isn't spending enough time at home figuring out where to put play houses.

Silly person - you make to much sense...;)
 
You're welcome to think that this is all just a return to when people were slowly loosing interest in the show, but it's undeniable that many people's perceptions about J&K have clearly changed in just the last few weeks.
You added this after I responded to you, so I didn't address this.

I have no doubt that some people's perception may have changed in the last few weeks, but I also know, just from being on this thread, that many already had a bad perception of them (and their marriage and the failure of it), before the last few weeks..even several months ago. I still haven't changed my mind. I still believe some old ones left, some new ones left, but also some old ones stayed as did some new ones. Do I think the ratings will go up, other than maybe the first new show? Nope, I think the kids are going to school, they have grown up and it's not as much fun watching them now. And I think the ratings will reflect just what they reflected pre Jon's mag rag photo's.
 
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