John Kerry for President!

Im voting for Bush!

Im not going to debate anything. Just wanted to show my support for our President!:wave:
 
Originally posted by ToriLammy
WOW, if the CIC gave all the orders the Military would never, ever get anything done in a timely manner. We've been through this before. The President (CIC) delegates authority. The persons he delegates to also delegate to others - it's called the Chain of Command, maybe it's just cause I served in the military and retired from (so I did a "few" years) that I understand how the military works.

For me, it wouldn't have matter who was the President when 9/11 happened and they were in a classroom. What he did was appropriate, had Clinton, Gore or even Kerry did the same thing I would not complain. Again, chalk it up to my actual experience with the military ;)
You'd think that with all that "actual experience in the military" you would then know that ONLY the president can give a "shoot down" order to a fighter when he's tailing a commercial jet. ONLY the president can make that decision. When the jets were initially scrambled, they had only a "Follow and advise" order, meaning that they could have watched the flight crash into the Pentagon and not had orders to do anything about it.

I'm sorry, but a leader is supposed to lead, particularly in a time of crisis. There's not a soul here that would have criticised Bush for excusing himself from the classroom and taking charge of the situation. After all, that is HIS JOB, as commander in chief. But instead he sat there like a bump on a frog, reading about a freakin' goat. Wonder what Guiliani thought when he heard the towers had been hit ? He gathered his people around him, and got to work. He LED, as he was elected to do.

(Hey...I never considered...maybe he was just too riveted by the story to bother...did you think of that ? I mean, it's not like he reads much, ya' know (only girly men read books) :rotfl: )
 
Originally posted by Patch'sD
I guess Osma and his second in command flew the planes and planned the attacks.

Flew the planes, no, but they most certainly did plan the 9/11 attack.


Originally posted by Patch'sD
You list our wounded and dead? How many of the terrorists have been killed, How many cells have been knocked out of business. How many plans have been thwarted.

Obviously not enough as terrorist bombs are going off all over the world (yesterday one killed 75 people in Iraq) and our government keeps telling us to prepare for the big one.


Originally posted by Patch'sD
The war on terror does not hinge on the capture or killing of one man.

More spin that tries to cover up the fact the Bush administration failed to commit enough troops to Afghanistan, enlisted the aid of Afghans to capture Bin Laden and crew, who in turn let him slip away

It's amazing that the same group that was so hot to capture Saddam Hussein (who had nothing to do with 9/11) are the same group who put out the spin "The war on terror does not hinge on the capture or killing of one man" when it comes to Osama Bin Laden.


Maybe a little less obsession with Saddam Hussein and a little more emphasis on Osama Bin Laden would've done the job.

Originally posted by Patch'sD
By the Way, Why does Kerry, Edwards, and the rest of the Democratic Leadership keep on trying to convince the public on how good Mrs. Heinz speach was.

Oh for crying out loud, just what is it about you rightwingers and other people's wives?

Just what the hell does this have to do with anything?


Originally posted by Patch'sD
And if Kerry wants to take the High Road, Why was he out in January 04, Calling Bush the most inept President in History.

Because Bush really is?
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
You'd think that with all that "actual experience in the military" you would then know that ONLY the president can give a "shoot down" order to a fighter when he's tailing a commercial jet. ONLY the president can make that decision. When the jets were initially scrambled, they had only a "Follow and advise" order, meaning that they could have watched the flight crash into the Pentagon and not had orders to do anything about it ...

Wow ... I never knew that. Is that just for commerical passenger planes/jets or does that hold true for commercial cargo planes too? How about private planes/jets, even those little cub planes?


(Hey...I never considered...maybe he was just too riveted by the story to bother...did you think of that ? ...

LOL! :teeth: :crazy:
 

Originally posted by Saffron
Wow ... I never knew that. Is that just for commerical passenger planes/jets or does that hold true for commercial cargo planes too? How about private planes/jets, even those little cub planes?
I'm honestly not sure of the exact protocol, but I do know that Bush DID issue the order, just not until nearly an hour after the jets had scrambled. This from USA today (USA Today Story )

Fighter jets respond to hijacking reports


How the military reacted to the terrorist attacks Tuesday:

8:38 a.m. - Federal Aviation Administration notifies military defense command an airliner has been hijacked.


8:45 a.m. - American Airlines Flight 11 from Boston hits the World Trade Center's north tower.


8:53 a.m. - Two F-15 fighters take off from Otis Air National Guard Base at Cape Cod, Mass., toward New York City.


9 a.m. - Pentagon moves to "Alpha" protection level, one level up from normal.


9:03 a.m. - United Airlines Flight 175 from Boston hits the World Trade Center's south tower.


9:25 a.m. - FAA notifies military defense command that a hijacked airliner, American Flight 77 from Dulles, is headed toward Washington.


Two F-16 fighters get orders to take off from Langley Air Force Base, about 130 miles south of the Pentagon.


C-130 transport plane at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington is asked to try to make visual contact with the hijacked jet.


9:38 a.m. - Langley F-16s take off toward Washington.



9:40 a.m. - American Airlines Flight 77 hits the Pentagon.


10:10 a.m. - United Flight 93 crashes in Shanksville, Pa.


Around that time, President Bush authorizes fighter pilots to shoot down airliners that do not respond to intercepts.
 
Originally posted by dsnylvr
Im voting for Bush!

Im not going to debate anything. Just wanted to show my support for our President!:wave:

I'm with you, dsnylvr!!! ::yes::
 
John O'Neill's ties to Richard Nixon, William Rhenquist, and this law firms ties to George Bush (and Enron) were covered extensively in the Boston Globe and The Houston Chronicle.


I'm sure they were. A LOT of ink was spent by the American Spectator and such in the 90's chroniciling the "ties" between this and that Clinton cronie. There are dozens of nonsence books on the shelves about the President now, just the way there were dozens on the shelves about President Clinton in the 90's. So how is it any different now?
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
I'm honestly not sure of the exact protocol, but I do know that Bush DID issue the order, just not until nearly an hour after the jets had scrambled. This from USA today (USA Today Story )

So what did you expect to happen within that hour?
 
Originally posted by wvrevy
You'd think that with all that "actual experience in the military" you would then know that ONLY the president can give a "shoot down" order to a fighter when he's tailing a commercial jet. ONLY the president can make that decision. When the jets were initially scrambled, they had only a "Follow and advise" order, meaning that they could have watched the flight crash into the Pentagon and not had orders to do anything about it.


"they could have" but not in 7 minutes. That's the thing, the President was not going to give the shoot down order in those 7 minutes. There are procedures and protocols, checklists and proper ways of identifying and securing information that simply was not going to happen in the 7 mintues regardless of whether he was in a classroom or zooming down the highway to Air Force One. That's the part you guys seem to ignore and continue to ignore time and time again. The "follow and advise" order - who the heck do you think they were going to advise? Bush allowed the procedures and protocols in place to be followed so he could be "advised" properly before getting up and yelling "shoot 'em all." Which appears to be the only thing some folks would have been happy with....
 
Originally posted by dsnylvr
Im voting for Bush!

Im not going to debate anything. Just wanted to show my support for our President!
Originally posted by ElizK
I'm with you, dsnylvr!!! ::yes::

Me too. FYI updates from Washington are very positive.
 
Originally posted by arminnie
Originally posted by dsnylvr
Im voting for Bush!

Im not going to debate anything. Just wanted to show my support for our President!


Me too. FYI updates from Washington are very positive.

Count me in as well! ::yes::
 
Originally posted by ThAnswr
Et tu, Galahad!

John O'Neill's ties to Richard Nixon, William Rhenquist, and this law firms ties to George Bush (and Enron) were covered extensively in the Boston Globe and The Houston Chronicle.

I'd give you a link that will link to "the rest of the story", but I can't get them to work. If anyone's interested, just google

-----John O'Neill disinfopedia----

I went in and read this from a link that was put up here earlier in response to my request. When I saw Nixons name in the article I couldn't figure out how it was relating to current time. I have more reading to do but I am too tired to think right now.
 
July 31, 2004 -- SCRANTON, Pa. — John Kerry's heavily hyped cross-country bus tour stumbled out of the blocks yesterday, as a group of Marines publicly dissed the Vietnam War hero in the middle of a crowded restaurant.
Kerry was treating running mate Sen. John Edwards and his wife, Elizabeth, to a Wendy's lunch in Newburgh, N.Y., for their 27th wedding anniversary — an Edwards family tradition — when the candidate approached four Marines and asked them questions.

The Marines — two in uniform and two off-duty — were polite but curt while chatting with Kerry, answering most of his questions with a "yes, sir" or "no, sir."

But they turned downright nasty after the Massachusetts senator thanked them "for their service" and left.

"He imposed on us and I disagree with him coming over here shaking our hands," one Marine said, adding, "I'm 100 percent against [him]."

A sergeant with 10 years of service under his belt said, "I speak for all of us. We think that we are doing the right thing in Iraq," before saying he is to be deployed there in a few weeks and is "eager" to go and serve.

The Marines — all of whom serve at nearby Stewart Air Force Base — wouldn't give their names.

:confused: I thought the military loved John?
 
A different perspective from a local paper http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2004/07/31/campaign.htmTown of Newburgh – Virginia Yambay was picking up a hot plate at Perkins for her grandmother who is on dialysis when she noticed all the fuss over at Wendy's.
So the 46-year-old, who's been stuck in a wheelchair since she fell while cleaning her house last year, wheeled past the buses and through the people and up to the men in uniforms.
"If you're not with the press, please back up," a state trooper said.
"Where is he?" Virginia asked.
"Inside," said a guy named Javier Andrade, who, to get a little closer, told a man in a suit he was with the press.
True story.
John Kerry was here yesterday. So was John Edwards. Their wives, too.
With the Democratic National Convention done in Boston, the presidential candidate and his running mate made a pit stop in their two-week "Believe in America" tour at this Route 300 fast-food joint, next to the Newburgh Mall off Interstate 84.
At a table covered with lunchtime burgers, Frostys and fries, Edwards lifted a yellow-cupped medium soda to his face, then looked up, pausing for the rat-a-tat-tat flash of pictures.
A couple of tables over, Kerry, dressed, like Edwards, in tan slacks, dark blue blazer and a light blue shirt with no tie, talked to Ed Reagan, 22, from the Hamlet of Wallkill.
Reagan told Kerry he'd just enlisted in the Air National Guard down the road at Stewart.
Kerry shook the hand of the kid with the reddish hair and the green ball cap.
"We're going to take care of you, man," Kerry said. "We won't let you down."
On the other side of the restaurant, the staff, standing behind the cash registers, still looked a little shell-shocked.
Ella Sindone, who lives in Highland, has been a crew leader here for four years.
"Kerry ordered a large Frosty and a small chili," she said.
Cheese and onions?
"No," she said.
Nicole Lewis, of the City of Newburgh, had started her shift at noon.
"I got here," she said, "and I was, like, 'What's going on?'"
She ended up taking most of the other orders.
"Frostys," she said. "Cokes and Diet Cokes. Singles. Combos. Chicken strips. Chili. They ordered a lot."
Christine Jeter, July Leseo and Chuck Eggleston, all from the City of Newburgh, and New Windsor's Shareen Correa helped make all the food and get it ASAP to the counter.
Eggleston punched a few buttons on one of the cash registers.
"That's Ben Affleck's order," he said.
Not 10 feet away, the movie star was sitting at a full table, chit-chatting with Kerry's daughters, Alexandra and Vanessa, both of whom were wearing flip flops.
Affleck, with gelled, messy-looking hair and an untucked blue button-down shirt, tried to be funny when a reporter asked the only question that came to mind:
What are you doing here?
"I'm on my way to Scranton," he said. "I don't know where they're going."
Someone asked him if he knew where he was.
"Upstate New York?" he said.
"Newburgh, New York."
At this point, a man with a thick neck, a bald head and a clear plastic earpiece starting yelling:
"Let's go!
"We're out!
"Outside, guys!"
Kerry stepped outside the Wendy's at 1:27 p.m. and shook hands with people scrunched up behind yellow police tape, folks like Bob Bowman from the town's VFW Post 1161, who had sped over here from the Alexis Diner, up a couple of exits on I-84.
"Over here," Virginia shouted from her chair as Kerry worked toward the bus.
"Kerry!" Javier yelled.
"Kerry!
"John!"
Javier grabbed the handles on the back of the chair and wiggled the woman through some legs.
"Take back the White House!" someone yelled.
Fifteen feet from the bus, Kerry saw the two of them and took a left turn and made his way across the parking lot.
Javier pulled out his flip phone and took a picture as Kerry shook Virginia's hand. About a dozen guys with cameras crowded around the short exchange.
"Thank you," the candidate told the woman in the wheelchair. "God bless you. You bet we're going to do it."
 
I agree, denise! I've actually enjoyed seeing some of the follow-up on different political talk shows since it ended (I avoided them during the DNC because I wanted to form my own opinions without influence).

And JPN, come on now.....of course there are some in the military who don't like him. As surely as there are those that do. I don't think anyone has asserted on either side that the military is 100% behind either candidate. I do, however, find it very interesting that they declined to give their names. Makes me guess that they, too, know that not everyone in the military agrees with them, and they wanted to avoid any future confrontation about their statements.

Also, and I've brought this up several times, I would appreciate if people would cite their sources when they post stats or articles. Thanks! :)
 
At least Kerry has the guts to approach strangers even if he is uncertain of his reception :



Friday, July 30, 2004

Obtaining Cheney Rally Ticket Requires Signing Bush Endorsement

By Jeff Jones
Journal Staff Writer
Some would-be spectators hoping to attend Vice President Dick Cheney's rally in Rio Rancho this weekend walked out of a Republican campaign office miffed and ticketless Thursday after getting this news:
Unless you sign an endorsement for President George W. Bush, you're not getting any passes.
The Albuquerque Bush-Cheney Victory office in charge of doling out the tickets to Saturday's event was requiring the endorsement forms from people it could not verify as supporters.
State Rep. Dan Foley, R-Roswell, speaking on behalf of the Republican Party, said Thursday that a "known Democrat operative group" was intending to try to crash Saturday's campaign rally at Rio Rancho Mid-High School. He added that some people were providing false names and addresses and added that tickets for the limited-seating event should go to loyal Bush backers.
However, some who left the office off Osuna NE without tickets on Thursday said they're not affiliated with an operative group and should have a right to see their vice president without pledging their allegiance to Bush.
"I'm outraged at this. I'm being closed off by my own government. It's crazy," said East Mountains resident Pamela Random, who added that she is an unaffiliated voter.
John Wade of Albuquerque said he initially signed the endorsement but was having second thoughts before he even left the office. Wade, a Democrat, said he returned his tickets and demanded to get his endorsement form back.
"It's not right for me to have to sign an endorsement to hear (Cheney) speak," Wade said. "I'm still pissed. This just ain't right."
Yier Shi, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, which is putting on Saturday's event, confirmed that those interested in seeing Cheney were asked to sign an endorsement form if they couldn't be verified as Bush-Cheney supporters.
He said campaign workers got such verification by checking to see whether, among other things, someone has contributed money or volunteered for the campaign. When asked whether workers were also checking the party affiliation of those asking for tickets, he said that was a possibility.
John Sanchez, chairman of the Bush-Cheney '04 re-election effort in the Southwest, said he wasn't aware of the endorsement matter, adding, "I would be surprised" if it was happening. However, he said he works directly for the Bush-Cheney campaign and the rally is a Republican National Committee event.
An endorsement form provided to the Journal by Random says: "I, (full name) ... do herby (sic) endorse George W. Bush for reelection of the United States." It later adds that, "In signing the above endorsement you are consenting to use and release of your name by Bush-Cheney as an endorser of President Bush."
A Journal reporter, who is a registered Democrat, called to inquire about a ticket Thursday afternoon. He was asked for his name, address and driver's license number but was not told over the telephone that he would need to sign any endorsement form. He got the news after arriving at the Bush-Cheney office.
Random and Wade said they were also not informed of the requirement until they showed up at the office.
Another Journal employee, who is a registered Republican, visited the office Thursday morning and got a ticket without being asked to sign the form.
The John Kerry/John Edwards campaign on Thursday issued a news release that asked, "Shouldn't all New Mexicans have the right to see their VP?"
Ruben Pulido Jr., a spokesman for that campaign, said the Democratic Party has no screening requirements for those interested in seeing Kerry or Edwards.
When Kerry visited Albuquerque earlier this month, a contingent of Bush supporters were in the crowd. The Associated Press has reported that the group chanted "Viva Bush!" during the event. The AP added that Kerry urged the crowd to tolerate the Bush supporters.
Moses Mercado, head of the Kerry-Edwards campaign in New Mexico, was in Boston on Thursday for the Democratic National Convention. He challenged Republicans to open their event "to all New Mexicans."
"I love when they come to New Mexico, but I wish they'd talk to New Mexicans and let New Mexicans hear their plan," Mercado said. "Because I think they (New Mexicans) really are hungry. They want answers."
Foley countered that Republicans weren't invited to Kerry's nomination-acceptance speech Thursday evening at that convention.
"This is a political event— just like (Thursday night)," Foley said of Cheney's upcoming visit.
Shi said the Rio Rancho event is intended to "energize" Bush-Cheney supporters, and organizers don't want it disrupted.
"We've received dozens and dozens of calls from Kerry-Edwards (supporters) who have used deceitful tactics to try and get in and disrupt this event," he said. "Our supporters have worked too hard to have an event like this get disrupted."
Security for Cheney's visit is exceptionally tight. There will be no parking at the school where he is to speak: Rally participants will instead be shuttled to the event.
Those without tickets, including protesters, are to be in a designated area across from the school.
Jim Tillery, a Rio Rancho teacher, signed the endorsement form when he came to the office Thursday afternoon. But he said he sees no problem with having Bush detractors in the crowd.
Tillery said there was a "mixed crowd" when Cheney made a visit to Rio Rancho in October 2000, and Cheney deftly handled questions from those detractors.
This time around, "my guess is they probably just wanted a rally of support rather than having the diggers or bashers mixed in with them," he said.http://www.abqjournal.com/elex/204620elex07-30-04.htm
 
"I speak for all of us.

Well, he may have chosen to speak for all the military, but I seriously doubt that he was accurate and frankly it takes a lot of nerve to stand up and say such a ridiculous thing.

Btw, do you happen to have a link to the story you posted?
 
Well at least one military person feels differently:

"WASHINGTON The man who was Air Force chief of staff during the first Gulf War is supporting John Kerry for president.

Retired General Merrill "Tony" McPeak gave the Democrats' weekly radio address today.

He says he switched his support from President Bush to Kerry on the strength of Kerry's wartime service and experience in Vietnam.

McPeak said it "means an awful lot" to him that Kerry fought for his country as a young man.

And he said for him, the "real deal" isn't whether a strategy is Republican or Democrat -- it's "whether it makes us safer."

McPeak also questioned what he called the president's "grudging cooperation" with the commission investigating the September eleventh attacks."
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2115155&nav=23ii2Pmv
 
Btw....

Since I had a pretty good idea where I'd find that story, I took a look at it for myself. No surprise at all that it was on the sludge report website. Even worse, you chose to pick and choose what you wanted posted out of the "article". For those who are interested, here are a few tidbits you left out:

The Marines — all of whom serve at nearby Stewart Air Force Base — wouldn't give their names.

Kind of cowardly to be so insulting yet refuse to identify yourself, don't you think?

But the rest of Day One went smoothly, as massive crowds — including what Kerry said were up to 20,000 in Harrisburg, Pa., — greeted him, Edwards, their families and Ben Affleck at the tour-kickoff event in Boston and at two stops in the Keystone state.

Looks like they were in the minority with their views.


The entire article can be found on sludge's website, I don't put links to trash in my posts though, so you'll have to type it in for yourselves.


At least Kerry has the guts to approach strangers even if he is uncertain of his reception :

Yes, we'll never have to worry about Laura Bush saying shove it to a reporter who is obviously biased. They'd never allow such a person to get close to her.
 















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