Jodi Arias Trial Part 5, starting with Violet STILLLLL rambling April 4

[usnuzuloose]

Another thing...ALV kept stressing that since Travis came from an abusive household, it was only fitting for him to become an abuser, because in ALV words that is the normal patten. However, she also claims that Jodi came from an abusive household yet she never abused anyone. So what is it, ALV? Can't have it both ways.

Every home has some kind of dysfunction. And heck I think most people end up saying I will never be like my parents. Was Travis wrong in allot of ways? Yes.

But if we all ask our selves, if some one in our family was murdered, wouldn't we want a prosecutor who is aggressive and speak for the victim? I was involved in a case where the person was the defendant, her daughter was the attorney. She was so soft spoken that Judge had to start telling her to speak up. So being in this job , you need to be aggressive on both sides. I don't believe Juan is out for any media on himself. He is doing what he has always done.

And AL can't have it both ways. I think Juan will drive his point home with her.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I don't think anybody has said she is a man hater because she is a lesbian. I can't speak for anybody else but I do not care what someones sexual preference is. I am not basing my opinion on what she does with her personal life but the fact that she basically said, "all men are abusers, all women are victims". That to me is that no matter what, deep down does not like men. Maybe it is because in her line of work, she sees more abuse from men. But to make a blanket statement like that is doing real DV victims a disservice.

ETA: I went back and read what you said about not directing it at anybody in this thread. Please forgive me for reading in haste and thinking someone on this thread alluded to her sexual preference. I just hope that nobody on this thread( or any other forums I like) would base a like or dislike based on somebody's sexual preference.

I don't even know if Laviolette is a lesbian, but I was just making the statement all lesbians don't hate men for the benefit of truth.

I'm not a big fan of psychologists anyway, but I do know the concept of DV perpetrators/victims/actors is still wide open to debate, some sociologists argue it exists due to the structure of society while lots of street cops will say it's malarkey.

Here's my thoughts regarding the emails and texts ... First, technically, does anyone know 100% that all those emails and texts were actually written and sent from TA himself? ... Just because they came from his phone and/or computer does it mean that he wrote and sent them? ... Yes, one can assume, but is that assumption beyond a reasonable doubt? - maybe yes to some, maybe no to others ... Remember, JA went through TA's emails, texts, etc., so how do we know that she didn't write/send some of them and have a text/email war all by herself? ... Secondly, how does anyone know the true context and tone of those emails/texts? ... They are written words, no one knows if the person writing them was smiling or laughing or yelling or mad or happy ... The tone of a written word cannot be actually heard, it can be possibly guessed, but not actually determined ... Also, does anyone know what transpired before or after those texts/emails? ... Maybe they were just in quick response to something when they were angry at that minute ... How many times have we all said things in the heat of the moment and then it all blew over? ... Maybe this was just all part of their foreplay ritual - who knows? ... During Lisa Andrews testimony, she even testified that the email she sent to TA was written when she was upset and it was immature and she was young and wasn't experienced, etc. ... But she also testified that TA never went any further or did anything to her that she didn't want ... I admit, I've written not-all-rainbowy-and-sweetsy texts & emails to my DH on occasion , and then looking back at them laughing and seeing how silly and stupid they were ... (Note to self - maybe I should go ditch my phone and computer and go buy new ones now ... ) ... So in conclusion regarding the texts/emails, I find it disingenuous that Violet can testify on behalf of and use them to character assassinate TA and declare him as a perpetrator of domestic violence without ever knowing him, speaking to him or ever even meeting him ... Her testimony is all hearsay to me and means nothing ...

As far as the sex tapes goes, yes, that was actually TA ... However, let's look at that conversation ... It went from general chit chat, to sex talk, to talking about spider man vs batman, to sex talk, to singing ... So this can show the way these two talked to each other from one minute to the next ... It was all over the place ... So one minute they could be having a text war and the next minute they could be having a civil conversation over a telephone that there is no record of ... IMO, there is more evidence of JA (police interrogation tapes, tv interviews, her own testimony, etc.) showing her as a perpetrator, stalker and abuser than there is of Travis ...

Bottom line, and yes i think we are on the same page, JM needs to prove 1st degree, premeditation foremost ... But because I'm sure that the majority of juries do not consist of all lawyers, prosecutors, legal eagles, etc., sometimes to prove that point to a jury may not be as easy to do with just a few quick direct questions ... Sometimes it can take a winding road ... Not as long and winding and bumpy and swervey as the DT likes to take things ... But enough to make sure that the jury gets the point and the picture ... To me, JM has proven this point ... But will he or has he proven it to that jury? ... That's all that really matters ... Time will tell ...

Maybe the State used your above rationale about the emails, IMs and texts when they attempted to keep them out of the trial or maybe because the State viewed the as damning to Travis. After both sides argue their points, it'll be up to the jury decide and I'm afraid all will be lost due to court room antics if the State doesn't focus to have the jury follow it's reasoning. The State doesn't have to insert his personality into this trial.

 

[Brit17]

Brit, you have made some great points in your post.

I so agree about the texts, I have taken them in the wrong context on a few occasions.
I want to know what she said to him when he wrote the long one with all the name calling. He didn't just write that after a bad day. Something transpired for that that be written.

And for the phone sex tape.......
I will continue to say it they were 2 consenting adults in the bedroom and whatever rocked their boat well good for them.
He trusted her (God knows why) and said things that were suppose to be between the 2 of them and she betrayed that trust by taping it for her own agenda.
He used her for sex and she allowed it. Shame on him for that.We are at this point today because she chose to slaughter this man.
He does not deserve to have his reputation smeared like this.

She planned and plotted to kill him, JM has the proof.
Let's hope the jury sees thru the smoke and mirrors from the DT and convicts her of 1st degree murder.

ITA with everything ... And as the saying goes, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? ... TA was getting it for free, and it was JA's own choice to be giving it freely ...

My first question to myself was, why on earth would this woman try to defend herself? Well the way I see it , she would have all the evidence in her hands. If things needed adding or changing she had great opportunity to do so. I am assuming she would need to speak to any potential witness's . At that time it would have given Jodi ample time to have Matt write those letters and have them delivered to her. The emails , texts, IM, and what not her attorney's only wanted her to her the portions that would only save Jodi's life. Jodi has made mockery of her own case all by herself. I understood Juan's point with the story. If she did not use the story line in any way shape or form for abuse, why on earth would Jodi be drawing a picture of Snow White? Be cause she learned that from AL.

The point he was making to AL is how could she determine Travis was abusive to Jodi if all she was was reading. Some of those emails, texts and what not had a angry purpose in his yelling. I mean we all have at some point used angry words at people when we have gotten angry.

I am sure Juan will begin to make it clear to AL that the messages have so much more the message than what she was only speaking on. I don't think he dislikes the woman in any matter. He is clearly doing his job. They all have their jobs to do. I think back to Baez , I don't dislike the man, I don't like how he went about getting his client off. I mean he ruined her dads reputation for no reason. I mean Casey's dad thinks she did something.

All issues with children are how they are raised at home. I really don't know Jodi's home life. But if the worst that Jodi could come up with was a wooden spoon, well I don't think that is abuse. Did it hurt a little more than moms hand? I am sure it did. Parents need to be the parent and take charge of the kids. And the way Jodi acts tells me she was pretty in control of home life. Jodi admitted she did not like how she was punished so she moved out, once again that says I am in control not you. Just as Jodi says I lied to everyone. She even got in trouble in the jail for defying orders. She was trying to manipulate the jail guards. That did not work. Jodi will continue to do these actions until a true change comes. Then and only then will Jodi see the light and know what she did was truly wrong.

Another thing...ALV kept stressing that since Travis came from an abusive household, it was only fitting for him to become an abuser, because in ALV words that is the normal patten. However, she also claims that Jodi came from an abusive household yet she never abused anyone. So what is it, ALV? Can't have it both ways.

 

[cabanafrau]

Do any of you know if some of the journals being used as evidence in the trial have been written by Jodi while incarcerated? Has there been any questioning in court of the notion that she may have created journals after the murder, but before she was arrested? Most of what's been talked about here is so self-serving, I cannot believe it didn't get tossed in the vetting procedure.

I cannot believe some of the evidence, witnesses and testimony that you've all discussed here that has been admitted. I have been through many, many trials (granted, no death penalty cases & nothing anywhere near this high profile) and I have never seen anything like what's been discussed here, even if I were to assume that you guys are only 10-percent accurate about evidence, questions, answers, etc. Admittedly, I'm used to the laws and judicial system in another state, but on a basic level rules of evidence and court rules and procedures of law are common across the country.

 

[momrek06]

There was an UNEDITED police tape of JA (she had the white slacks on) a week or so ago posted here.

I watched it.

Does anyone know where to look for the rest of them?

TY

 

[Uncle Remus]

There was an UNEDITED police tape of JA (she had the white slacks on) a week or so ago posted here.

I watched it.

Does anyone know where to look for the rest of them?

TY

Here's the first one, the rest are listed there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_Ue5rF8QM

 

[reelmom]

Do any of you know if some of the journals being used as evidence in the trial have been written by Jodi while incarcerated? Has there been any questioning in court of the notion that she may have created journals after the murder, but before she was arrested? Most of what's been talked about here is so self-serving, I cannot believe it didn't get tossed in the vetting procedure.

I cannot believe some of the evidence, witnesses and testimony that you've all discussed here that has been admitted. I have been through many, many trials (granted, no death penalty cases & nothing anywhere near this high profile) and I have never seen anything like what's been discussed here, even if I were to assume that you guys are only 10-percent accurate about evidence, questions, answers, etc. Admittedly, I'm used to the laws and judicial system in another state, but on a basic level rules of evidence and court rules and procedures of law are common across the country.

I think a lot of the journals were written between the time she murdered Travis and before she was arrested. I think she went back and rewrote some and made up new ones knowing she was going to be arrested eventually. I think she thought it would be an alibi. That is why she directed Det. Flores to them in the interrogation room.

 

[momrek06]

Here's the first one, the rest are listed there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_Ue5rF8QM

Thanks, UR!!!

 

[Uncle Remus]

Thanks, UR!!!

Oh, you're welcome, those tapes just shove me over the edge, I can't watch them at all anymore.

 

[Brit17]

Maybe the State used your above rationale about the emails, IMs and texts when they attempted to keep them out of the trial or maybe because the State viewed the as damning to Travis. After both sides argue their points, it'll be up to the jury decide and I'm afraid all will be lost due to court room antics if the State doesn't focus to have the jury follow it's reasoning. The State doesn't have to insert his personality into this trial.

If the State did use my rationale, do you think it's too late for me to submit my bill? ... I only charge the "standard" $250 per hour for my opinion ...

According to the computer/phone/camera prosecution witness (I think his name was Det. Melendes?), he testified that there were approximately 15,000 texts alone on TA's phone, which turned into 800+ pages (when technology became available to actually extract those texts in 2010) ... So when the Judge ruled that the entire sex tape was to be heard by the jury (which I don't think JA liked, because then it would actually be accurate and not all picked apart to her benefit), did the Judge also rule that the jury must read all 15,000 texts to be fair and accurate? ... I'm just trying to say that texts/emails/IM's are tricky to use as evidence because it's difficult to accurately interpret what their intended content and context truly is/was ... In other words, should they be considered as hearsay? ...

I really hope that the jury can put aside all the courtroom antics and come up with a fair and impartial verdict based on the hard evidence ...

 

[WPack911]

Holy Cow! Not sure if anybody saw this at WS. Yesterday, some thought that the Judge said she wanted to see ALV in the hallway. It is true. The lady who is friends with Travis' family posted her thoughts on this. She said yesterday, after ALV requested the potty break, ALV stopped by Travis' sister,Sam, and said something to her. This is ILLEGAL! She couldn't tell what she was saying because ALV was very close to Sam. She did see ALV her kind of shrug her arms as to say,"well, what can you do?" Later, the friend approached Sam and told her this was illegal, that ALV is not allowed to contact her due to Victims Bill of Rights. Sam told her," Juan is taking care of it." Now this is all speculation on the friends part but she is alomost certain this is what the Judge wanted to speak to ALV about. This is crazy!

OMG, this is huge, this could have her testimony thrown out! That would be a death blow to the DT! Oh please let Monday start with JM requesting a motion about this!

 

[WPack911]

I understand that Jodi is the perpetrator in this crime, hell Travis is dead so he's definitely the victim and she's alive so she's the perpetrator, but even if one throws out any and all statements made by Jodi, all those texts, emails and yes, that taped sex convo between Jodi and Travis are still evidence in this trial. ALV is relating those pieces of evidence to their relationship which was abusive by both sides. In addition to that evidence between Jodi and Travis, there's the evidence between Lisa and Travis when quite frankly after the cross by the State of her emails with Travis, I deduced Travis was a manipulator trying to play that kid reframing her thoughts of him in her initial email to him with her feelings.

And I'm not directing this toward you at all or anyone in this thread, but contrary to popular belief, all lesbians don't hate men.

Bottom line is Martinez needs to concentrate on premeditation to get a 1st degree conviction, despite any evidence that Travis may have contributed to his own death by either abuse or ignorance, one cannot plan the murder of him and do it for any reason including if he was a pedophile. And there's no way she didn't pan to kill him before she left Yreka, she planned it and carried it out, premeditation.

Nobody said all lesbians hate men, I have known a few that do though (my former boss for one), and I think ALV is one of them (she may or may not be a lesbian though). I also have known some straight women that seemingly hate men too, so it is not lesbian exclusive.

JM is doing what it takes to get that conviction the best he can, his style is to take it to the DT's "Experts" and destroy their credibility to show nothing they say just like nothing JA says matters. You annoy me sometimes because you act as though you think you could do better job then a proven Prosecutor in JM, saying what he should or should not do. You are armchair quarterbacking if you think that let me tell you.

JM may or may not get this jury to give the DP to Jodi, but whether they do or not won't be on JM, he is fighting with everything he has got for TA's family to get this conviction and DP sentence. You liking his style or not is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is that TA's family believes he is, and I clearly think they do.

 

[usnuzuloose]

I am wondering why AL would approach Travis' family. That is illegal. Is there a screen shot of that some where. I am between all of this. I am so behind in doing things in the house.

 

[Brit17]

Holy Cow! Not sure if anybody saw this at WS. Yesterday, some thought that the Judge said she wanted to see ALV in the hallway. It is true. The lady who is friends with Travis' family posted her thoughts on this. She said yesterday, after ALV requested the potty break, ALV stopped by Travis' sister,Sam, and said something to her. This is ILLEGAL! She couldn't tell what she was saying because ALV was very close to Sam. She did see ALV her kind of shrug her arms as to say,"well, what can you do?" Later, the friend approached Sam and told her this was illegal, that ALV is not allowed to contact her due to Victims Bill of Rights. Sam told her," Juan is taking care of it." Now this is all speculation on the friends part but she is alomost certain this is what the Judge wanted to speak to ALV about. This is crazy!

When did this take place? ... Wednesday or Thursday? ... I don't remember Violet asking for a potty break on Thursday so if it happened on Wednesday, then Juan must have already said something and the Judge took care of it and it's all over with? ... or is Juan preparing a Motion for Defense Witness Misconduct and the DT will be hit with it on Monday ... Wouldn't that be sweet ...

 

[Uncle Remus]

If the State did use my rationale, do you think it's too late for me to submit my bill? ... I only charge the "standard" $250 per hour for my opinion ...

According to the computer/phone/camera prosecution witness (I think his name was Det. Melendes?), he testified that there were approximately 15,000 texts alone on TA's phone, which turned into 800+ pages (when technology became available to actually extract those texts in 2010) ... So when the Judge ruled that the entire sex tape was to be heard by the jury (which I don't think JA liked, because then it would actually be accurate and not all picked apart to her benefit), did the Judge also rule that the jury must read all 15,000 texts to be fair and accurate? ... I'm just trying to say that texts/emails/IM's are tricky to use as evidence because it's difficult to accurately interpret what their intended content and context truly is/was ... In other words, should they be considered as hearsay? ...

I really hope that the jury can put aside all the courtroom antics and come up with a fair and impartial verdict based on the hard evidence ...

I'll definitely be your witness should you need to go to court to be paid what's due you. And yes, you should file that the State bears the responsibility of that bill too.

And yes, I understand what you mean in deciphering the intent in IM, texts, etc. because hell, that's also true of message boards!

Here's something I saw not long ago:
Text from dad to kid: Hey son, what does IDK mean?
Text from kid to dad: I don't know.
Text from dad to kid: Okay, I'll ask your mom, thanks.

Saying the jury would have to see all 15,000 texts on Travis' phone in order to see all the evidence sounds true, but that's why these attorneys argue what's admissible and what's not. Just think had Det Flores interrogated Jodi without Mirandizing her, we wouldn't be seeing any of those tapes as evidence, it's just the rules of evidence and I guarantee you that class uses more than one textbook.

I guess overall what I'm trying to say is contrary to the commentary in this thread, we need to remember and view all the admitted evidence as what the jury is going to be looking at to come to a verdict beyond a reasonable doubt. They're the ones to give that evidence weight or not.

And HLN just rebroadcast the exchange between the State and Laviolette about the seven dwarves home, is it a shack as the State said or a cottage like Laviolette said?

 

[Uncle Remus]

Nobody said all lesbians hate men, I have known a few that do though (my former boss for one), and I think ALV is one of them (she may or may not be a lesbian though). I also have known some straight women that seemingly hate men too, so it is not lesbian exclusive.

JM is doing what it takes to get that conviction the best he can, his style is to take it to the DT's "Experts" and destroy their credibility to show nothing they say just like nothing JA says matters. You annoy me sometimes because you act as though you think you could do better job then a proven Prosecutor in JM, saying what he should or should not do. You are armchair quarterbacking if you think that let me tell you.

JM may or may not get this jury to give the DP to Jodi, but whether they do or not won't be on JM, he is fighting with everything he has got for TA's family to get this conviction and DP sentence. You liking his style or not is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is that TA's family believes he is, and I clearly think they do.

Thanks for your thoughts, WPack.

 

[Brit17]

I'll definitely be your witness should you need to go to court to be paid what's due you. And yes, you should file that the State bears the responsibility of that bill too.

And yes, I understand what you mean in deciphering the intent in IM, texts, etc. because hell, that's also true of message boards!

Here's something I saw not long ago:
Text from dad to kid: Hey son, what does IDK mean?
Text from kid to dad: I don't know.
Text from dad to kid: Okay, I'll ask your mom, thanks.

Saying the jury would have to see all 15,000 texts on Travis' phone in order to see all the evidence sounds true, but that's why these attorneys argue what's admissible and what's not. Just think had Det Flores interrogated Jodi without Mirandizing her, we wouldn't be seeing any of those tapes as evidence, it's just the rules of evidence and I guarantee you that class uses more than one textbook.

I guess overall what I'm trying to say is contrary to the commentary in this thread, we need to remember and view all the admitted evidence as what the jury is going to be looking at to come to a verdict beyond a reasonable doubt. They're the ones to give that evidence weight or not.

And HLN just rebroadcast the exchange between the State and Laviolette about the seven dwarves home, is it a shack as the State said or a cottage like Laviolette said?

Thanx Uncle Remus ... I'm forwarding the entire bill to the State now ... Do you charge the same standard rate of $250 per hour or is your fee higher? ...

ITA ... I just wish I could be a fly on the wall in that jury room come deliberation time ... or maybe not ... I might have to repeatedly fly myself straight into that wall ...

Hmmm, I'll have to get back to you on Shack vs. Cottage ... I'm conferring with Walt Disney now to find out what his true intent was regarding that ... and to see if there is any solid evidence in said matter ...

 

[lorimay]

I am watching the opening statements and Willie is up.
But what is annoying me the most is what is on the computer screen which they have turned to face the jury of course.


They have a cutesy picture of that murderer wrapped in a jacket with the hood on her ugly little head. (I need a barfy icon right about HERE).

What the hell is that all about and why is it allowed????

 

[Uncle Remus]

Thanx Uncle Remus ... I'm forwarding the entire bill to the State now ... Do you charge the same standard rate of $250 per hour or is your fee higher? ...

ITA ... I just wish I could be a fly on the wall in that jury room come deliberation time ... or maybe not ... I might have to repeatedly fly myself straight into that wall ...

Hmmm, I'll have to get back to you on Shack vs. Cottage ... I'm conferring with Walt Disney now to find out what his true intent was regarding that ... and to see if there is any solid evidence in said matter ...

Exactly, it's Walt's Snow White not the Grimm Brothers' Snow White.

My rate is the same as yours although I shouldn't be on the stand long unless your attorney drones on like Nurmi. In that case, you and I both could reap enough to plan vacations at DisneyWorld.

I wonder if the judge will sequester this jury during deliberations. I've been meaning to look up her case recitations for the denial of the Defense's motion to sequester to see if those might apply, but I came down with the nastiest Spring cold ever and I'm just damn near drained from it and it just started last night. I hope this jury can convict Jodi to the fullest extent because I'm not sure how they'd feel about their decision of anything less if/when they see the non-admissible evidence we've seen.

 

[usnuzuloose]

UR, hope your blister feels better. I hate them , they hurt so bad.

I wonder if I could get some one at Disney to tell us how old those Dwarfs are.