Job situation

[overwhelmedx2]

OP here - just checking in before I head back to the office.

just to comment on a couple of posts - we do have a financial planner - been working with him for our whole married life (23+ years) - I do have plans to try to touch base with him today. His office is about 1/2 mile away from mine - so hopefully I can run over there at lunch or after work for a few minutes. I know there will not be a charge for that.

As part of our DD's college planning - our college back-up plan is we have a small ROTH IRA - which was started for the sole purpose of paying for college. Our thought when DD entered college was to try to do it out of cash flow - and not touch this very specific Roth unless we needed to. So - this Roth would cover 3-sememsters of college. We have 2 semesters worth in 529 plans. And - the Roth represents only ~2.5% of our total retirement $$'s, so really - we aren't stealing from our retirement money - the money was put there for college.

My stress level is high. (Just ask DH...) I feel that my house hasn't been totally clean all at one time since last Christmas.

I need to roll...have a great day everyone!

 

[Minnie824]

I'm surprised at how many people think the company is being nice. I don't see it that way. OP had a long career and it sounds like is doing a great job and the company is probably in cost saving mode, now pushing her out so they don't have to pay her salary, vacation, and retirement. How is that nice? In addition, if they're looking for new people they'll expect her to train her replacement as well. I think its riduculous.

OP do you need insurance or would you be able to get it thru your DH? If you don't need it, I would stay on until they actually do get rid of you...and at that point they need a valid reason. Print out all reviews you've had, assuming they've been positive til the latest issues, and have documented proof of your work. Then talk to them and continue to go up the chain asking for reasoning as to why, and if its your age, etc. That will make them nervous as well.

In addition, I would start looking for new jobs now. Take some of your time off to do interviews and have a new job lined up BEFORE they get rid of you or you quit. I would not just accept this and leave without getting things lined up first.

 

[mikehn]

8-12 weeks of severance is nothing. Before you accept it, I would just get some legal advice.

 

[Nancyg56]

I agree that you are being shown the door, and they are allowing you to exit gracefully. I would make sure to take it and I would also make sure that I did not rock the boat in doing so. I am not saying that I think this is the right thing for a company to do, but since they have already made it clear what the plan is, it is better to take what you can and make the best of it. My neighbor made the mistake of trying to rectify the "mistakes" his company wrote him up for. He followed the PIP, they created, stepped up whenever he could, but there was no way he was going to change their plan. Once others saw he was a good target, they piled on to make sure that they did not replace him, and it was a mess. He ended up getting fired, no severance, and the company fought his unemployment benefits. It was a mess, and he was a mess. By the time he got fired he was a nervous wreck, and because he did not see that there was no winning this one, he was blindsided. It was a disaster.

 

[DopeyDame]

I'm surprised at how many people think the company is being nice. .

I don't think anyone thinks the company is being nice. They clearly aren't. We're just saying that the writing seems to be on the wall here, so her choices are
A) Take the severance package and exit gracefully, with at least some money and benefits, and presumably a good reference
or
B) Be fired at any moment, not getting anything, and having to tell future employers she was fired.

Clearly, A is the better option here.
Sure, this could be age discrimination (or not), but frankly - the effort to win a lawsuit over that seems to offer little to no benefits.

 

[Traveliz]

I'm surprised at how many people think the company is being nice. I don't see it that way. OP had a long career and it sounds like is doing a great job and the company is probably in cost saving mode, now pushing her out so they don't have to pay her salary, vacation, and retirement. How is that nice? In addition, if they're looking for new people they'll expect her to train her replacement as well. I think its riduculous.

OP do you need insurance or would you be able to get it thru your DH? If you don't need it, I would stay on until they actually do get rid of you...and at that point they need a valid reason. Print out all reviews you've had, assuming they've been positive til the latest issues, and have documented proof of your work. Then talk to them and continue to go up the chain asking for reasoning as to why, and if its your age, etc. That will make them nervous as well.

In addition, I would start looking for new jobs now. Take some of your time off to do interviews and have a new job lined up BEFORE they get rid of you or you quit. I would not just accept this and leave without getting things lined up first.

In many states empoyers do not need a valid reason to let anyone go. At that point she would be let go and may or may not get unemployment.

Liz

 

[PoohNBoom]

Something you may want to consider if you decide to take the "package"....

Years ago, someone in my previous company was given a "package" and he asked the company to report that he was still an employee while he was receiving his severance pay. This way he could claim that he was still employed while looking for his next job.

 

[GusGus77]

I'm sorry you are going through this, OP. It is definitely a different working environment today than it was 20 or 30 years ago. I think you are safer taking the exit strategy. I also would ask if they can continue to consider you "employed" for the time you are still receiving pay and benefits so that if you do decide to look for a job you can say you are still employed as that can make a difference in finding something else. Keep us posted! I am saying a prayer for you!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I'm surprised at how many people think the company is being nice. I don't see it that way. OP had a long career and it sounds like is doing a great job and the company is probably in cost saving mode, now pushing her out so they don't have to pay her salary, vacation, and retirement. How is that nice? In addition, if they're looking for new people they'll expect her to train her replacement as well. I think its riduculous.

OP do you need insurance or would you be able to get it thru your DH? If you don't need it, I would stay on until they actually do get rid of you...and at that point they need a valid reason. Print out all reviews you've had, assuming they've been positive til the latest issues, and have documented proof of your work. Then talk to them and continue to go up the chain asking for reasoning as to why, and if its your age, etc. That will make them nervous as well.

In addition, I would start looking for new jobs now. Take some of your time off to do interviews and have a new job lined up BEFORE they get rid of you or you quit. I would not just accept this and leave without getting things lined up first.

Did anyone say the company was being nice?

Personally, I think it stinks. I also think it is a better offer than you might expect in today's corporate climate (which is a sad comment on our work culture in general) and the OP is better to take the offer than not.

I don't think anyone thinks the company is being nice. They clearly aren't. We're just saying that the writing seems to be on the wall here, so her choices are
A) Take the severance package and exit gracefully, with at least some money and benefits, and presumably a good reference
or
B) Be fired at any moment, not getting anything, and having to tell future employers she was fired.

Clearly, A is the better option here.
Sure, this could be age discrimination (or not), but frankly - the effort to win a lawsuit over that seems to offer little to no benefits.

 

[Robinrs]

Been there, done that.. not fun.

I took the "exit" but I was there 14 years and they gave me 14 weeks of severance, only fair.

The stress was killing me and honestly, I think I saved my life by leaving that place.

I survived and you will, too. I was a single Mom with 10 year old, just buried my Mom and had an elderly ill father who died 2 weeks later. It may look bad but it's God's way of getting you to the next level. Don't let them shatter your spirit, leave with your head held high.

Good luck!

 

[Arielle22]

I am in HR so I can see the other side of this issue. OP, I am not saying any of this is applicable to you but I have seen the following.

1) Long time employee is content to coast. I had an employee tell me they had been there too long to work as hard as a new employee.

2) Personality conflict with manager. Higher ups don't want to deal with this and usually decide to keep the manager and term the employee.

3) Management does not think you are doing your job as well as you think you are doing it. You said you are working a lot due to being short staffed. Perhaps management thinks you are either milking it or being inefficient with your time.

4) Your work is actually declining but you don't see it while management does.


You seem to be tying the fact that you make more than a manager to the reason you were written up. Was that said to you or is it conjecture on your part?

Were the write ups valid? You say you missed 2 emails out of 500 and that wasn't acceptable to your manager. What were the other 2 write ups?

Another poster said they would have to tell you why you were let go. That only applies in a few states and most states are at will. If you are termed, the company can say they followed procedure and wrote you up 3 times and warned you that termination was likely. It is possible that would be enough to deny you unemployment.

At my company we usually offer 1 week per year when we offer severance. We also require a signed severance agreement. In some states, if you sign the agreement you can collect severance and unemployment at the same time.

When computing the value of your severance, add in Cobra payments. At my company individual health plans are around $640 per month and family plan $1,200. If you have to pay Cobra you also add in 2%. So the value of severance may increase a 2k-3k depending on Cobra cost.

I agree with tvguy that any lawsuit with the EEOC or state will take a long time. Judging by what you have posted, the EEOC/state would not file a suit on your behalf but would give you a letter letting you sue your company. You would then have a short amount of time (maybe 90 days) to find an attorney to take the case. Just getting the letter to sue from the EEOC can takes months or more. I had one claim languish for 2 years before it was dismissed.

I actually had a similar situation as yours with a high level coworker who had been here 7.5 years. She and the owner continually butted heads. Two weeks ago, she was handed a severance and told we were parting ways. She got 12 weeks of severance (due to her higher position) and 3 months of Cobra.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't think anyone thinks the company is being nice. They clearly aren't. We're just saying that the writing seems to be on the wall here, so her choices are
A) Take the severance package and exit gracefully, with at least some money and benefits, and presumably a good reference
or
B) Be fired at any moment, not getting anything, and having to tell future employers she was fired.

Clearly, A is the better option here.
Sure, this could be age discrimination (or not), but frankly - the effort to win a lawsuit over that seems to offer little to no benefits.

Oh, I agree, there is no one saying the company is being nice to the OP. What we all are saying is that the company has decided to give her an exit strategy that she can choose to accept. She can also choose not to accept it, and then risk being fired. She already has written warnings in her file, so they have already begun that process.

In regards to option B, my neighbor was in that position. His industry is a relatively small one in our area, so after he was fired, there was no openings anywhere for him. He left as a manager, but could not even get hired as a lineman, a position that he had a lifetime of experience in. Once you are terminated, you have limited options in this environment.

 

[Disney Doll]

Take the exit package. Try and get the 12 weeks. Collect unemployment while you can. If you can benefits through your DH do so afteryour benefits run out.

Take a couple of weeks to breathe and de-stress.

I have always found that God closes a window and opens a door.

I don't know what you do, but if you interact with people in your industry, start taking down their contact info, phone numbers etc. That's your network...

 

[manning]

I'm surprised at how many people think the company is being nice. I don't see it that way. OP had a long career and it sounds like is doing a great job and the company is probably in cost saving mode, now pushing her out so they don't have to pay her salary, vacation, and retirement. How is that nice? In addition, if they're looking for new people they'll expect her to train her replacement as well. I think its riduculous.

OP do you need insurance or would you be able to get it thru your DH? If you don't need it, I would stay on until they actually do get rid of you...and at that point they need a valid reason. Print out all reviews you've had, assuming they've been positive til the latest issues, and have documented proof of your work. Then talk to them and continue to go up the chain asking for reasoning as to why, and if its your age, etc. That will make them nervous as well.

In addition, I would start looking for new jobs now. Take some of your time off to do interviews and have a new job lined up BEFORE they get rid of you or you quit. I would not just accept this and leave without getting things lined up first.

That's what I was going to say. If they fire you, you may qualify for unemployment insurance. If they don't successfully challenge it, you get it. If you quit you automatically don't get it.

 

[overwhelmedx2]

OP here. Again thank you for all your words of wisdom. This is a difficult decision, and by accepting the "exit strategy" I feel like I will just be giving up or going down without a fight. And for me - that is the hardest part of all of this.

I did meet with our financial planners yesterday. DH and I have been working with one of them for over 20 years, and the 2nd guy for about 5 years (2nd guy being groomed to take over when guy1 retires) Got some great advice from them relative to the situation, and their comments were to get out. DH did not want to join me at this meeting, either in person or by phone, as he felt that I needed to hear things from an unbiased point of view. They pointed that some things aren't worth the stress, and this is one of them.

I did find out a few more details about the package - it will only be 8 weeks of pay plus the outplacement services. I've not been looking for a job for 13 years, so for me the outplacement is something that I feel I need. Disappointing that it will only be 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks. My financial planners told me not to get hung up on this.

I will be taking the early "out"~ don't know what that means for a final day or anything yet.

Short term cash flow is going to suck. But - most of Christmas has been shopped and paid for already. For the most part - what we are paying for DD's college is covered. And - I've got 2 months from my yet-to-be determined last day to take care of personal doctor's appointments on my insurance - while I've got the time to get those things scheduled. I currently carry DD and me on my insurance, and at the beginning of the year, we will move onto DH's insurance.

And - while this situation just sucks...DH will probably stop the "big" contributions to his 401K - (dropping it to just what gets him the company match). From a retirement perspective, our current portfolio made more in the last month than our entire salaries brought in. So -the contributions that we are currently making to our retirement - will stop, the money that we have so carefully saved since we got married will continue to grow. And for now - that is fine. This may delay our retirement a little, and that is fine. I'm 52 and DH is 55.

I've been working so many weekends since March - my house hasn't been entirely clean at the same time. I've not entirely completed laundry in a weekend, etc, etc. From a timing perspective - it has always been a tough fight to get any time off over the holidays, and this year, I will be able to not feel guilty about the time off I have over Christmas AND Thanksgiving AND New Years.

My DD is at a campus about 4 hours away, and is living in a sorority house. The house has a "guest suite" for a mom to stay, so I'll probably go visit her (No hotel cost!) Unfortunately that will leave dad home with the dog.

And - I still need to use up a massage certificate my DH got me for my birthday!

Anyways- I really do appreciate all your comments. I've got a wonderfully supportive husband, backing from our financial planners, as well as all your support!

Anyone need a dogsitter???

 

[Colleen27]

Take the offer. They've decided to get rid of you one way or another - you're making too much because of your years of experience, you probably have a better benefit/retirement package than new hires are getting, and they value the savings of replacing you with a cheaper employee more than they do your contribution. And it is decent of them to offer a severance package - a lot of companies would simply find that "one minute late" excuse to write you up again, then fire you for cause and you wouldn't even be able to get unemployment.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm surprised at how many people think the company is being nice. I don't see it that way. OP had a long career and it sounds like is doing a great job and the company is probably in cost saving mode, now pushing her out so they don't have to pay her salary, vacation, and retirement. How is that nice?

Offering severance is nicer than just drumming up documentation to fire her for cause and deny her unemployment. Nothing about the current employment market is nice and it sucks that you can't expect years of service to earn job security and a comfortable wage, but it is what it is. Why would companies pay a 50-something the pay rate earned over decades of experience when they could hire a 22 year old who will take pretty much any offer just to get a foot in the door?

 

[USMelinUK]

Good luck. I really hope it works out for you.

 

[DebbieB]

I would say be sure to document everything going on. Since you have a supportive husband, the exit strategy might be the way to go. I've seen it happen in my company, jobs held by long time employees get "eliminated". My company offers 2 weeks severance for every year (up to a year's pay) so most are happy to take that. I did hear one person filed an age discrimination suit, never heard how that turned out. I worry about this because I am 53, single, and have been with my company since I got out of high school, 36 years. I just bought a house last year. I would like to at least make it to 59 1/2 so that I could start collecting my 401K without penalty if needed. Health insurance is a killer, my company does not offer retiree health care.

 

[disneyhand]

OP here. Again thank you for all your words of wisdom. This is a difficult decision, and by accepting the "exit strategy" I feel like I will just be giving up or going down without a fight. And for me - that is the hardest part of all of this.

I did meet with our financial planners yesterday. DH and I have been working with one of them for over 20 years, and the 2nd guy for about 5 years (2nd guy being groomed to take over when guy1 retires) Got some great advice from them relative to the situation, and their comments were to get out. DH did not want to join me at this meeting, either in person or by phone, as he felt that I needed to hear things from an unbiased point of view. They pointed that some things aren't worth the stress, and this is one of them.

I did find out a few more details about the package - it will only be 8 weeks of pay plus the outplacement services. I've not been looking for a job for 13 years, so for me the outplacement is something that I feel I need. Disappointing that it will only be 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks. My financial planners told me not to get hung up on this.

I will be taking the early "out"~ don't know what that means for a final day or anything yet.

Short term cash flow is going to suck. But - most of Christmas has been shopped and paid for already. For the most part - what we are paying for DD's college is covered. And - I've got 2 months from my yet-to-be determined last day to take care of personal doctor's appointments on my insurance - while I've got the time to get those things scheduled. I currently carry DD and me on my insurance, and at the beginning of the year, we will move onto DH's insurance.

And - while this situation just sucks...DH will probably stop the "big" contributions to his 401K - (dropping it to just what gets him the company match). From a retirement perspective, our current portfolio made more in the last month than our entire salaries brought in. So -the contributions that we are currently making to our retirement - will stop, the money that we have so carefully saved since we got married will continue to grow. And for now - that is fine. This may delay our retirement a little, and that is fine. I'm 52 and DH is 55.

I've been working so many weekends since March - my house hasn't been entirely clean at the same time. I've not entirely completed laundry in a weekend, etc, etc. From a timing perspective - it has always been a tough fight to get any time off over the holidays, and this year, I will be able to not feel guilty about the time off I have over Christmas AND Thanksgiving AND New Years.

My DD is at a campus about 4 hours away, and is living in a sorority house. The house has a "guest suite" for a mom to stay, so I'll probably go visit her (No hotel cost!) Unfortunately that will leave dad home with the dog.

And - I still need to use up a massage certificate my DH got me for my birthday!

Anyways- I really do appreciate all your comments. I've got a wonderfully supportive husband, backing from our financial planners, as well as all your support!

Anyone need a dogsitter???

I've been in a similar situation and everything worked out fine. You will love having all the stress gone and will really get to enjoy the holidays! Best of luck on your new beginning and kudos on your years of smart financial planning!