Jim Hill Piece on Universal vs Disney in Orlando

That's a lot of speculation going on. Diller's group hasn't yet bought Universal & for all we know Disney could still buy them...

Second, build more theme parks in orlando? If Universal tries this strategy in the already saturated central Florida market they will be up for sale again real soon...Orlando is through and I think Disney (at least) recognizes this...
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Originally posted by Peter Pirate
That's a lot of speculation going on. Diller's group hasn't yet bought Universal & for all we know Disney could still buy them...

Second, build more theme parks in orlando? If Universal tries this strategy in the already saturated central Florida market they will be up for sale again real soon...Orlando is through and I think Disney (at least) recognizes this...
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Disney buy Universal Entertainment? It would never be allowed for regulatory reasons. Plus with 15 billion in Debt I don't think Disney can afford it. Sure Viendi's debt is larger but we are not talking about rumors of them buying Disney which would be just as absurd.


So now the problem in Flordia is market saturation....I wonder when Disney learned this valuable lesson? Was it after MGM, AK, IOA or DCA or maybe TDS showed them this? I have a feeling if you wow the cusomter and give them a reason to return then there is no such think as market saturation. THis is the lesson that Disney is struggling to remember.
 
I hope i dont upset Peter Pirate but i agree with him on oversatuation!! The average family only has so many days they can spend while visit Orlando and like disney has found with AK the old thought"Build it and they will come" hasnt worked out. Unless they build some park unlike any ever built it is likely to make people spend less time at there current parks than increase their total days on property. I think ti invesnt billions in a new park wouldnt be a wise investment for the forseeable future but both companies should work on fixing up their currrent parks before adding new ones. All of the current parks could using expanding/updating!!
 
Disney would have no anti-trust or other regulatory problems with the purchase...Where would the monopoly exist? Disney is still in a good liquidity position although recent downgrades probably do make this scenerio unlikely. But still Disney is huge and numbers can be "worked" and deals struck...

I believe Disney realized the saturation problem with AK (& the parrelell problems of Universal's IOA confirmed it)...Neither park has been successful. Disney has been hesitent to "fix" AK, IMO, because they don't believe it will help (I'm not saying I agree, but I think this is there modus).

As for the "build it and they will come" attitude, I disagree. Too many people have "done" Orlando & I truly think its maor growth is behind it.

PS Bob, I'm surprised, but not upset!
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Originally posted by Peter Pirate

I believe Disney realized the saturation problem with AK (& the parrelell problems of Universal's IOA confirmed it)...Neither park has been successful. Disney has been hesitent to "fix" AK, IMO, because they don't believe it will help (I'm not saying I agree, but I think this is there modus).



So make up you mind do you think that Disney's problems in Flordia is due to Saturation or not? Can't have it both ways.

I think we have went over this before is IOA was sucessfull or not. Nobody could come up with any type of proof or statement from the company or anyone else hat says either way. Would Universal like it if IOA had 15 million guest? Yes I'm sure they woiuld. Just becuase that did not happen does not mean that the place is not sucessfull.

Nobody, espically Universal is talking about building a third park anytime soon. I would say it's at least 5 years down the road.

Bob Universal is doing eactly that, building up the current parks first. They are adding three new attaractions to the Studios within the next year. They have reworked two shows and are adding a new parade to the Studios. I've heard no plans for IOA so that is a sign to me that they are pretty happy with the current guest draw and attraction list of that park, not as some would see a sign that the market is staturated.
 
I can have it any way I want.;) How's this:
Disney's Problems
50% due to saturation (low growth potential)
30% Management failures
20% The economy & post 9/11

Universal itself called its opening dissappointing, as I recall (pre-Vivendi) and this is the time frame in which Disney scaled back AK. Cuts from (1) a complete park to (B) To phase II, to (3) Plans on hold, to (D) Forget about it...

Disney planned to meet IOA head on with AK but as the prospects for IOA successes dimmed Disney's plans faded. Note: I'm not saying IOA was/is a failure at all. I'm saying it didn't take off as US expected or as Disney feared. Initially Disney saw no drop in business due to IOA so the plans faded further. What we're left to evalute is that neither Disney or Universal were happy with what they achieved. It appears that Disney went to cheap and IOA overspent. Which is the better route? Beats me, but Disney's failure with DCA coupled by the success of TDS makes me believe it's better to spend a little more rather than a little less.

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If i had my choice i would much perfer how Universal built IOA than how disney built MGM/AK/DCA. And i do agree that Universal is putting money into their parks and i hope disney follows suit beyond MS and the Mickey 3d show in the old Lion King bldg at MK. I just hope both companies build up the existing parks before they even start on a new park. And i think that Orlando is over- suarated at the moment. When you think of all their is to do beteween WDW/USF/SW and the other smaller attractions their is way more than enough for a week to 10 days which would be the average vacation for a american family(though some from foreign countries would have more time). I know myself being a park commando that when i come back from FLA i have a great time but do get tired trying to get everything it that i can.
 
...I guess it's different for each person. My wife and I like the fact that you can visit Orlando for 10 days and never "see or do" it all. Gives us a reason to come back. That to me would be tantamount to skipping a restaurant because it had too much good stuff on the menu.
 
We only go every other year so i try to do as much as possible, so i dont want to wait till next time to re-do my favorites and see the new attractions!!! And of course ride the top attractions several times!!
 
I know this is an old thread, but I haven't been on these boards for a while.

I just wanted to post some things I haven't seen on this thread yet, things to think about.

First, a brief history, my father worked for, and helped open Epcot, working on the computers that run all of the attractions. My mother worked for Lombard's Landing at Universal Studios when it opened. I worked for Universal one summer when I was 16 (and hated it)

I have never visited AK or felt a need to. EPCOT used to be my favorite theme park as a kid, but the attractions I loved are all but gone now.

I'm more of a Universal fan at the moment since I don't see Disney doing a whole lot in this country right now.

Hulk vs. RnRc.:
Ok, let's examine this from a different angle. Space Mountain is a long ride compared to RnRc, and so is Hulk. I waited in line for 45mins to ride RnRc and was disappointed by the short ride, but I enjoyed the theming.

The problem is the faster the coaster, the quicker the ride, which means the more track you need to get a decent ride time. That means you also would need a much bigger building. So IOA could have built Hulk indoors, but it would have been a major expense and then it wouldn't have the visual appeal from the outside viewers as it does now.

The que theming of Hulk is not a whole lot, but I enjoy it (realizing, of course, that not all people enjoy loud bass music shaking the building ;) )

The same also applies for Dueling Dragons, which from what I understand would have also been an outdoor coaster had Disney built it's version. Universal knew that it would just be another coaster, so they built the que as one of the best ever made, and the detail put into the coaster cars is incredible, right down to the tongue colored front rows.

Land:

Yes, Universal actually has room for a 3rd theme park on their current land not considering the 2,000 acres bought from Lockheed, but I'm not sure if they'd do it. Also, I believe they sold a chunk of the new land to the county for the next (of how many?) expansion of the Convention Center.

Yes, They may never have the middle- of-nowhere appeal of Disney, especially apparent when riding on Dr. Doom's Fearfall.

IOA could have spent a ton more on making FearFall as good as ToT, or Dudley as good as Splash Mountain, but they had strategic budgeting. Think of all you'd have to go through to have each Disney ride available to compete with this one park.

Yes, IOA has some off-the-shelf attractions, but it is hardly an "amusement park" as one person said. Spiderman, The Cat in the Hat, and Poseidon's Fury are all very high quality dark shows/rides, on par with or better than Disney. Also, let's not forget E.T. as a great kids dark ride at US, which showed back then that they can make a great dark ride like that of Peter Pan.

Disney's made recently Test Track (after 3 years of delays, crashes and other problems), Buzz Lightyear Spin (haven't been on it, but MIB is bigger and better from everything I've seen),
Alien Encounter (Good), RnRc (discussed), Journey into YOUR Imagination (which nobody liked),

It's one thing for Disney to stop building the highest quality attractions in the Orlando market, but they also shut down a lot of the classic rides that people kept going back for. That's one reason why I don't have a lot of faith. That, plus the new hotels between Disney and Universal (needs no explanation)
I am excited about Mission:Space, but I hope they quit cutting stuff out of it and just make it the way it was intended to be.

AK needs something, because me, as a 24 year old, still has nothing drawing me to go there. I have Busch Gardens for a zoo (Even if AK is Natazu :rolleyes: )

That's all the time I have for now. Again, I try not to be biased, I think Disney is great, and I still go there a lot, but for the moment, as ride developments go, Universal has it, in this country, at least. Disney shouldn't forget this as it makes all these parks in other countries (which BTW, Universal is also right behind them as well)
 
Just a thought from a lurking Mom (and urban planner). I think Brian is right the genius of Disney is in creating total environments. I think if you surveyed most adult women they would tell you that they perfer Disney over Universal because the themeing of Disney is better or more romantic. That being said it is with the themeing that Disney is in danger of slipping. Cost cuts, bad attitude by overworked or undertrained CMs, lack of repairs or repairing done during the day-anything that breaks the magic, hurts Disney. Worse still is the overconstruction in the hotels and villas which is not matched by park improvements. I perfer staying longer at Disney, but as my kids have aged the time at Disney as gotten less and Universal more. I have to battle with my ride hungry husband and kids, and Disney needs to give me more ammunition. (As to AK what is there is great, there is just not enough there.)
 












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