Jesus wasn't resurrected

[richiebaseball]

What I am saying is that Jesus could simple choose to bring the shrub-worshipers to God.

Sorry to interrupt but this news would certainly make a lot of Republicans happy.

 

[jaimee1024]

I guess that's part of my bafflement with the whole "knowing Jesus" thing. Why make it so difficult? If God can do anything, why not make sure everyone knows for sure what the truth is? It seems he(she?) has left it up to us to use the minds he (she) gave us to decide for ourselves what we believe. I can only be true to my heart. I could say a thousand times that I believed something, but if it wasn't true in my heart, God would know.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I guess that's part of my bafflement with the whole "knowing Jesus" thing. Why make it so difficult? If God can do anything, why not make sure everyone knows for sure what the truth is? It seems he(she?) has left it up to us to use the minds he (she) gave us to decide for ourselves what we believe. I can only be true to my heart. I could say a thousand times that I believed something, but if it wasn't true in my heart, God would know.

I agree. I mean I tried..I honest to G-d tried for many many years to be a Christian. To feel what I needed feel.. It would have been so much easier to stay a Christian just like my whole family.. All I felt as a Christian was a hole in my soul. I just could not make myself believe.. That hole in my soul went away when I found Judaism.

 

[jaimee1024]

I have always found Judaism fascinating. I grew up (Catholic) in a Jewish neighborhood, so had lots of Jewish friends. At Christmas time we would go carroling in our neighborhood and if we knew it was a Jewish home we would sing "We wish you a happy hanukah"! I admire you for being true to your heart and making that change. I must admit that while my family is not overly religious (two sisters are practicing Catholics, other sister and brother...no particular faith that I know of) they would probably think I had lost my mind if I told them I was converting to Judaism. OY! I can't even imagine what my MIL would do!!! Interestingly, my parents...both Catholic would probably be very accepting. For their generation (Mom passed away at 70 in 2005 and Dad is almost 78) they are extremely open minded and accepting of all people.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I have always found Judaism fascinating. I grew up (Catholic) in a Jewish neighborhood, so had lots of Jewish friends. At Christmas time we would go carroling in our neighborhood and if we knew it was a Jewish home we would sing "We wish you a happy hanukah"! I admire you for being true to your heart and making that change. I must admit that while my family is not overly religious (two sisters are practicing Catholics, other sister and brother...no particular faith that I know of) they would probably think I had lost my mind if I told them I was converting to Judaism. OY! I can't even imagine what my MIL would do!!! Interestingly, my parents...both Catholic would probably be very accepting. For their generation (Mom passed away at 70 in 2005 and Dad is almost 78) they are extremely open minded and accepting of all people.

I think my family thought it was a phase..I spent so many years in different Christian religions that I assume they felt I would move on to the next one..I guess after 5 years they realize this is the real deal.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I agree. I mean I tried..I honest to G-d tried for many many years to be a Christian. To feel what I needed feel.. It would have been so much easier to stay a Christian just like my whole family.. All I felt as a Christian was a hole in my soul. I just could not make myself believe.. That hole in my soul went away when I found Judaism.

Your experience and the experience of friends like you is one of the reasons why I have so much trouble believing that God will only admit Christians to Heaven. Christianity and Catholicism filled the hole in my soul in the same why that Judaism filled yours. How could a loving, merciful God only accept one of our experiences as valid? How could that God not accept the fact that Islam fills the hole in a co-workers soul? Or that belief in the glory of nature in its own existence can't fill the soul of another without the benefit of organized religion? Obviously, I don't know the answer to this, and I won't know until I leave this earth. Because I can't know the answer, then I can't hold judgment in my heart for another person's soul. IMHO, God holds ALL the answers and all we can do on this earth is our best for ourselves and each other.
I know this isn't the position that many others take, I respect that and understand it. When I first started Catechism, we were taught that Catholics were the only ones that had the right answer. I still know people in my family and my Church that believe that. I know people in the Baptist church where I went to Bible school as a kid that think that they are the only ones with the right answer. They're all good people that love God and love their neighbors. I don't judge them negatively for their position. I just don't share it.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Your experience and the experience of friends like you is one of the reasons why I have so much trouble believing that God will only admit Christians to Heaven. Christianity and Catholicism filled the hole in my soul in the same why that Judaism filled yours. .

And honestly, I have so much affection for Catholicism..I love the ceremony, the pageantry. I could still recite Mass from memory..It wasn't an easy thing to leave the spiritual home of my childhood and I so totally understand how it can fill that hole in so many.

 

[Fitswimmer]

And honestly, I have so much affection for Catholicism..I love the ceremony, the pageantry. I could still recite Mass from memory..It wasn't an easy thing to leave the spiritual home of my childhood and I so totally understand how it can fill that hole in so many.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the prayer over the gifts that begins "Blessed are you, God of all creation, through your goodness we have this bread to offer" very similiar if not identical to a Jewish prayer? My manager at work is Jewish and he commented on it after attending a Catholic wedding.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the prayer over the gifts that begins "Blessed are you, God of all creation, through your goodness we have this bread to offer" very similiar if not identical to a Jewish prayer? My manager at work is Jewish and he commented on it after attending a Catholic wedding.

Similar


Hamotzi prayer
Barukh atah Adonai, Eloheinu, melekh ha-olam hamotzi lechem min ha'aretz. (Amein).

Blessed are You, L-rd, our G-d, King of the Universe who brings forth bread from the earth. (Amen)

 

[Fitswimmer]

Similar


Hamotzi prayer
Barukh atah Adonai, Eloheinu, melekh ha-olam hamotzi lechem min ha'aretz. (Amein).

Blessed are You, L-rd, our G-d, King of the Universe who brings forth bread from the earth. (Amen)

It's pretty close. Is there a particular sacramental use for that prayer? I don't know if sacramental is the right word, but is it used in a service or is it more of a prayer used in the home?

 

[JennyMominRI]

It's pretty close. Is there a particular sacramental use for that prayer? I don't know if sacramental is the right word, but is it used in a service or is it more of a prayer used in the home?

There is a series of prayers said on Shabbos. The basics are over wine bread and the lighting of the candles.. There are more than that also...These are also used on holidays...It would make sense that the portion of the eucharist about the bread and wine would be similar as your last supper was essentially a Passover Seder..There would be a wine and a bread blessing at the seder ..Jesus just kicked it up a notch

 

[Fitswimmer]

There is a series of prayers said on Shabbos. The basics are oer wine bread and the lighting of the candles.. There are more than that also...These are also used on holidays...It would make sense that the portion of the eucharist about the bread and wine would be similar as your last supper was essentially a Passover Seder..There would be a wine and a bread blessing at the seder ..Jesus just kicked it up a notch

I like that explanation. We used to have a Passover Seder every Lent in the parish I went to with my parents. It started as an exchange event with our Confirmation kids and the kids from the Temple in town. We wanted to get the kids together so that they could learn about each others faith. It got so popular that it became a community event with all the members of the Temple and the Parish invited to attend. Luckily we had a BIG parish hall. I'm pretty sure they're still doing it, it was a great event.

 

[DISUNC]

I like that explanation. We used to have a Passover Seder every Lent in the parish I went to with my parents. It started as an exchange event with our Confirmation kids and the kids from the Temple in town. We wanted to get the kids together so that they could learn about each others faith. It got so popular that it became a community event with all the members of the Temple and the Parish invited to attend. Luckily we had a BIG parish hall. I'm pretty sure they're still doing it, it was a great event.

Growing up Catholic in Brooklyn in the 60's & 70's, attending Parochial School we had these too! We also had other religions leaders come and talk to us about their religion from time to time.

Honestly there were NO hostility inflicted by the leaders of the church on any other religion then. If a kid was caught ever making a negative religious joke about another religion, the nuns would have definately beatin the evil outta him/her!

However growing up in Brooklyn one was VERY away of the many different religions and ethnicitys.

 

[jimmiej]

I believe that when Jesus said "I am the way" he was referring to his teachings.

Then why did He have to die?

 

[jaimee1024]

Then why did He have to die?

Good question! Why did he have to die? People suffer and die all the time. Why did God choose this as the way to salvation? (believing that Christ suffered and died to save us) I believe Christ's death was a human tragedy caused by people who had FEAR because their beliefs were being questioned.

 

[jimmiej]

Good question! Why did he have to die? People suffer and die all the time. Why did God choose this as the way to salvation? (believing that Christ suffered and died to save us) I believe Christ's death was a human tragedy caused by people who had FEAR because their beliefs were being questioned.

The problem I see with that reasoning is Jesus knew ahead of time He would be put to death & raised on the third day. This event was prophesied hundreds of years before.

Here's why I think it was planned that way by God:

God always required a blood sacrifice for the remission of sins. Remember when God removed Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden? What did He do before removing them? He slaughtered an animal to make them garments to wear (instead of their chosen fig leaves). I believe Jesus was the ultimate & final blood sacrifice for our sins. Therefore, belief in & acceptance of His sacrifice is how we are made righteous before God.

*I know Jenny disagrees with me about the OT sacrifices, but this is what my OT says.

 

[phillybeth]

There is a series of prayers said on Shabbos. The basics are over wine bread and the lighting of the candles.. There are more than that also...These are also used on holidays...It would make sense that the portion of the eucharist about the bread and wine would be similar as your last supper was essentially a Passover Seder..There would be a wine and a bread blessing at the seder ..Jesus just kicked it up a notch

Yup- the Last Supper was the first night of Passover. I wonder if they had a place set for Elijah?

 

[JennyMominRI]

Good question! Why did he have to die? People suffer and die all the time. Why did God choose this as the way to salvation? (believing that Christ suffered and died to save us) I believe Christ's death was a human tragedy caused by people who had FEAR because their beliefs were being questioned.

My view
Jesus was killed by the romans..Why? Because the Jewish messiah is proclaiming himself King of Israel. That is what the Messiah is to jews.He is a political leader.. Who do you think would be threated by a man claiming to be the annointed ruler of israel? That would be the Romans...
Jesus was just another failed claiment to be Messiah to the Jews.. People like him were a dime a dozen and there were plenty of people to claim Messiah that had far better qualifications of him..None of those men were eer executed.. Jews didn't execute people for claiming to be Messiah,in fact Jews only executed people once or twice in a century and those people would go before a Jewish Court

 

[JennyMominRI]

The problem I see with that reasoning is Jesus knew ahead of time He would be put to death & raised on the third day. This event was prophesied hundreds of years before.

Here's why I think it was planned that way by God:

God always required a blood sacrifice for the remission of sins. Remember when God removed Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden? What did He do before removing them? He slaughtered an animal to make them garments to wear (instead of their chosen fig leaves). I believe Jesus was the ultimate & final blood sacrifice for our sins. Therefore, belief in & acceptance of His sacrifice is how we are made righteous before God.

*I know Jenny disagrees with me about the OT sacrifices, but this is what my OT says.

 

[Fitswimmer]

My view
Jesus was killed by the romans..Why? Because the Jewish messiah is proclaiming himself King of Israel. That is what the Messiah is to jews.He is a political leader.. Who do you think would be threated by a man claiming to be the annointed ruler of israel? That would be the Romans...
Jesus was just another failed claiment to be Messiah to the Jews.. People like him were a dime a dozen and there were plenty of people to claim Messiah that had far better qualifications of him..None of those men were eer executed.. Jews didn't execute people for claiming to be Messiah,in fact Jews only executed people once or twice in a century and those people would go before a Jewish Court

Ok, but what about the Gospel accounts of the Passion? The Romans didn't act alone. There were religious leaders that were also threatened by Jesus. I believe that these were individual actors and in no way represented the entire Jewish community. We all know of religious leaders today that are quite fond of their power, I'm sure the time of Jesus was no different. Just as folks like Pat Robertson don't speak for all Christians today, I'm sure that the people responsible for handing Jesus over to the Romans did not speak for the community as a whole either.