Jesus wasn't resurrected

[JoeEpcotRocks]

But that is exactly my point. God did write a book that is open to interpretation - one that doesn't spell out a single answer. And God isn't a dufus. So I don't think God wants us to find one and only one answer.

You seem to want there to be one and only one answer. I honestly don't think God has provided one.

Whoa. Under a different Testament??? So it sounds like you are saying there *is* more than one and only way. There is a way that allows Esah to commune with God without ever hearing the name Jesus. Are there others? Infants who die during childbirth? American Indians in the year 1000? Is there any way for them to get to God without ever hearing the name Jesus?

By the way - what's the cutoff for "being under a different Testament"? What year? Which people?

Jesus was the New Testament.

 

[aquinas]

But that is exactly my point. God did write a book that is open to interpretation - one that doesn't spell out a single answer. And God isn't a dufus. So I don't think God wants us to find one and only one answer.

You seem to want there to be one and only one answer. I honestly don't think God has provided one.

Whoa. Under a different Testament??? So it sounds like you are saying there *is* more than one and only way. There is a way that allows Esah to commune with God without ever hearing the name Jesus. Are there others? Infants who die during childbirth? American Indians in the year 1000? Is there any way for them to get to God without ever hearing the name Jesus?

By the way - what's the cutoff for "being under a different Testament"? What year? Which people?

This is a very postmodern and "emergent" line of thought. It all goes with the deconstruction of scripture that many are trying to do today. It is a very fatalistic line of reasoning that believes that God/Jesus is absolute truth but there is no way to find that truth because the Bible is left to each man's biased interpretation. I think you would enjoy Brian McLaren or Rob Bell. I find them out in left field but you would enjoy them I suppose.

The 10 commandments are pretty cut and dry. God doesnt want us to murder, steal, etc. There arent multiple answers to the question of murder or stealing, etc. And Jesus did say the ONLY way to the father is through the son. That is pretty cut and dry for me.

 

[Buckalew11]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe in the OT people were to keep the law and be obedient to God. That was how they were reconciled to God which is why Christians believe they gave sacrifices to God. (I believe I have read here that Jews do not believe this as Christians do and say there was no need for atonement for sins, but Christians obvisiously believe there is a HUGE need for atonement for sin.)

So, until Jesus, the people were asked to follow God and be obedient to Him. He was to be their only God and they were not to worship false gods.(Which still stays the same for us today).
When Christ came and died and rose again, He was the fulfillment of the OT prophets (which is accepted by Christians and not Jews). This changed the way we are reconciled with God. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, He sent His Holy Spirit to us. This ushered in the "age of Grace" which we live in today instead of having to keep the law. However, all laws are not to forgotten (Jesus stated this very plainly). The 10 Commandments are still ours to live by. But there are rules that were for the Jews that do not apply. It is pretty clear when you study them and read them in the context they were written which still hold and what does not.

It is a belief of many Christians that if you have not heard or cannot understand (Babies, children, unborn babies, anyone who is not able to understand) that God, who is a loving God, knows their innocent hearts and they have the promise of eternity with God.

God is Just and when it comes time to judge, I think He'll judge accordingly. So, people who have never heard or maybe even know in their heart that there is some power bigger than them (even though they have never heard about God/Jesus/HS as we here today) and worship God in the best way they know how, will be accepted into Heaven. This is just MHO and others may feel differently but I believe God looks inside our hearts and sees and understand what we do not.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe in the OT people were to keep the law and be obedient to God. That was how they were reconciled to God which is why Christians believe they gave sacrifices to God. (I believe I have read here that Jews do not believe this as Christians do and say there was no need for atonement for sins, but Christians obvisiously believe there is a HUGE need for atonement for sin.)

.

Aren't you getting tired of disclaimers for me

There is a need for atonement. There are just various options for doing so..The main way being Teshuvah..Blood sacrifices wer one way to atone of unintentional sins against G-d


((((((((The 10 Commandments are still ours to live by. But there are rules that were for the Jews that do not apply. It is pretty clear when you study them and read them in the context they were written which still hold and what does not.)))))))))))))

Good, because I was really having a tough time finding a Caananite slave..

 

[magicmato]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe in the OT people were to keep the law and be obedient to God. That was how they were reconciled to God which is why Christians believe they gave sacrifices to God. (I believe I have read here that Jews do not believe this as Christians do and say there was no need for atonement for sins, but Christians obvisiously believe there is a HUGE need for atonement for sin.)

So, until Jesus, the people were asked to follow God and be obedient to Him. He was to be their only God and they were not to worship false gods.(Which still stays the same for us today).
When Christ came and died and rose again, He was the fulfillment of the OT prophets (which is accepted by Christians and not Jews). This changed the way we are reconciled with God. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, He sent His Holy Spirit to us. This ushered in the "age of Grace" which we live in today instead of having to keep the law. However, all laws are not to forgotten (Jesus stated this very plainly). The 10 Commandments are still ours to live by. But there are rules that were for the Jews that do not apply. It is pretty clear when you study them and read them in the context they were written which still hold and what does not.

It is a belief of many Christians that if you have not heard or cannot understand (Babies, children, unborn babies, anyone who is not able to understand) that God, who is a loving God, knows their innocent hearts and they have the promise of eternity with God.

God is Just and when it comes time to judge, I think He'll judge accordingly. So, people who have never heard or maybe even know in their heart that there is some power bigger than them (even though they have never heard about God/Jesus/HS as we here today) and worship God in the best way they know how, will be accepted into Heaven. This is just MHO and others may feel differently but I believe God looks inside our hearts and sees and understand what we do not.

So a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Native American adult who has never heard of Jesus would be admitted straight into heaven?

 

[cardaway]

It is pretty clear when you study them and read them in the context they were written which still hold and what does not.

If they were clear there would only be one form of Christian church.

But I do agree, each one does seem to think their version of the one truth is the only correct one.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Good, because I was really having a tough time finding a Caananite slave..

And I thought I was the only one!

 

[cardaway]

So a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Native American adult who has never heard of Jesus would be admitted straight into heaven?

Good question. If the answer is no, then theirs is not good news. It's just making sure they have heard the word so they lose their get into heqaven free card.

 

[Buckalew11]

So a Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Native American adult who has never heard of Jesus would be admitted straight into heaven?

I honestly don't know. That will between them and God.

 

[Buckalew11]

If they were clear there would only be one form of Christian church.

But I do agree, each one does seem to think their version of the one truth is the only correct one.

I believe that all the Christian denominations that I know of realize the OT laws had laws for the Israelites that were not given to all people. Not sure what you mean.

The different Christian denominations today tend to differ on NT beliefs, usually having the same core belief. Small details get in the way whenever you have a group of people. I grew up Methodist and am now the dreaded Baptist and honestly, there is very few differences in the 2 denominations.

 

[Buckalew11]

Aren't you getting tired of disclaimers for me

There is a need for atonement. There are just various options for doing so..The main way being Teshuvah..Blood sacrifices wer one way to atone of unintentional sins against G-d


((((((((The 10 Commandments are still ours to live by. But there are rules that were for the Jews that do not apply. It is pretty clear when you study them and read them in the context they were written which still hold and what does not.)))))))))))))

Good, because I was really having a tough time finding a Caananite slave..

Jenny!

 

[cardaway]

The different Christian denominations today tend to differ on NT beliefs, usually having the same core belief. Small details get in the way whenever you have a group of people.

I find it interesting that some days they small details but on others they are big enough to remian their own denomination and say the others are wrong.

 

[Buckalew11]

Depends on the core belief. But, for instance, Baptists fully immerse you when baptizing. Methodists generally sprinkle. Does it matter? I doubt it. Southern Baptists pool their $$ in the SB association and divey the $$ out to home and foreign missionaries. Independent Baptist missionaires raise their own money through their churches to do their work. Those are small details to me. I don't think in those things there are "rights and wrongs". However, people will yell out "wrong" when it comes to a core belief of Christianity.

 

[salmoneous]

The 10 commandments are pretty cut and dry. God doesnt want us to murder, steal, etc. There arent multiple answers to the question of murder or stealing, etc. And Jesus did say the ONLY way to the father is through the son. That is pretty cut and dry for me.

You say that, but then here we are in a thread where a lot of smart, religious people who have studied the Bible disagree as to whether the 10 Commandments even apply to Christians or if they are rules that only apply to Jews. And is murder (do not kill) really so cut and dried? Many believe it applies to abortions, the death penalty, euthanasia, civilian war deaths, etc. Many don't - and most pick and choose which it applies to and which it doesn't.

As I've said, even no man getting to God without Jesus isn't so clear cut. Does it mean Muslims can't commune with God, or just that they need Jesus to do so? Can Jesus bring somebody to God who has never heard of Jesus?

 

[cardaway]

As I've said, even no man getting to God without Jesus isn't so clear cut. Does it mean Muslims can't commune with God, or just that they need Jesus to do so? Can Jesus bring somebody to God who has never heard of Jesus?

No need to go that far. How about something as simple as whether to get baptised or go to confession.

 

[aquinas]

You say that, but then here we are in a thread where a lot of smart, religious people who have studied the Bible disagree as to whether the 10 Commandments even apply to Christians or if they are rules that only apply to Jews. And is murder (do not kill) really so cut and dried? Many believe it applies to abortions, the death penalty, euthanasia, civilian war deaths, etc. Many don't - and most pick and choose which it applies to and which it doesn't.

As I've said, even no man getting to God without Jesus isn't so clear cut. Does it mean Muslims can't commune with God, or just that they need Jesus to do so? Can Jesus bring somebody to God who has never heard of Jesus?

Jesus is the new covenant. We live under grace now and not the law. That does not mean we take the antinomian approach and say that we are free to do what we will because we have grace. But that as we progress down the road of sanctification that our desires and actions become more Christ like.

Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. Muslims do not believe in a triune God and deny Christ as Messiah and savior.

Romans tells us that the creation tells us of the creator and God and men are without excuse. But that is why it is even more important to spread the gospel to all people groups. Have I totally reconciled in my mind that those who have never heard of Christ will spend an eternity apart from God? no, but I have faith in what the Bible says and Jesus says that he is the way to the father. As an aside, mentally incapable people and children before the stage of accountability fall under God's grace and I believe will be in heaven.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jesus is the new covenant. We live under grace now and not the law. That does not mean we take the antinomian approach and say that we are free to do what we will because we have grace. But that as we progress down the road of sanctification that our desires and actions become more Christ like.

Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. Muslims do not believe in a triune God and deny Christ as Messiah and savior.

Neither do Jews worship a triune God..It's really Christians that are the odd man out..Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[KeepSwimming]

This is a sensitive topic that easily triggers a lot of very personal and emotional responses from everyone. Let's settle it here and now:

WE FOUND JESUS!!!

he was behind the couch the whole time.....

You may now return to your regularly scheduled confessional/baptismal/resurrectional programming.

 

[Fitswimmer]

This is a sensitive topic that easily triggers a lot of very personal and emotional responses from everyone. Let's settle it here and now:

WE FOUND JESUS!!!

he was behind the couch the whole time.....

You may now return to your regularly scheduled confessional/baptismal/resurrectional programming.

 

[Buckalew11]

No need to go that far. How about something as simple as whether to get baptised or take go to confession.

All must confess. Some do it through a formal confession as in the Catholic church and some confess directly to God (I have read here that some Catholics don't go to confession but confess directly to God also).

And yes, baptism does have a lot of differing views. You must be, you don't have to be but should be if possible, babies must be baptized, babies don't need to be baptized until they know what they're doing. I am sure the differences go on and on.


~~~~I am wondering about this next quote though: "Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. Muslims do not believe in a triune God and deny Christ as Messiah and savior." by Aquinas.~~~~

Jews don't believe in a triune God either, do they? Yet, we do serve the same God as them. Just wondering.