Jesus wasn't resurrected

[salmoneous]

I am talking about present time not the OT. I am sorry I didnt clarify that. Clearly the Bible tells us that God's faithful people before the earthly incarnation of Jesus are in heaven.

But for people today, Jesus tells us that HE is the only way to the Father.

But Jesus didn't say that at all. He didn't say, "in the past there were other ways, but in the future you will have to say a salvation prayer to me and believe in my resurrection to get into heaven." All Christ said was that He was "the way". At that moment, he hadn't even died. Yet we all believe that the Jews who died then aren't excluded from God's presence.

So when Christ said "I am the way" he is leaving open more than one way to access that path. If more than one way was open in the past, why must we believe that it is the only way today. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

 

[cardaway]

We will just have to disagree. I cannot believe how black and white you are making it. It really saddens me. And then people wonder why the world looks upon Christians with less than open arms and happy hearts. You are stating, unequivocally that 67% of the world is wrong and their religion, that they hold as dear as you hold yours is false. You are taking the Bible as literal truth when you cannot prove it is. That is your faith and your faith has no right to decide what is or is not true or false for anyone but yourself.

Well said again, especially the parts I bolded.

 

[salmoneous]

I never said I get to decide. God decides and in His revealed Word He tells us that the primary source of unity is to be centered around the Gospel of Jesus Christ and through Him we are granted salvation.

If the Bible said that, I'd agree. But it doesn't. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Belief in Jesus' divinity, his burial and resurrection, and saying a salvation prayer are the important issues. Everything else is secondary." Those are distinctions man and churches made up - not guidance from God.

About the only place in the Bible where we are told that one thing is more important than others is when Jesus told us:

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[aquinas]

But Jesus didn't say that at all. He didn't say, "in the past there were other ways, but in the future you will have to say a salvation prayer to me and believe in my resurrection to get into heaven." All Christ said was that He was "the way". At that moment, he hadn't even died. Yet we all believe that the Jews who died then aren't excluded from God's presence.

So when Christ said "I am the way" he is leaving open more than one way to access that path. If more than one way was open in the past, why must we believe that it is the only way today. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

If you hold to the triune nature of God, Jesus always was from the beginning of time. God sent Jesus in human form to die for our sins to satisfiy His holy wrath against sin and sinners. Again, Jesus said, The ONLY way to the Father is through the son. If there were other ways then why would a loving God withhold this information from people? Jesus was speaking in present terms. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and new covenant. The old covenant ceased to exist. We live under grace not law now. I just do not see how you say Jesus left the door open to alternate paths to God because he said HE is the way. He didnt say that HE is A way. Big distinction.

 

[CheshireVal]

We will just have to disagree. I cannot believe how black and white you are making it. It really saddens me. And then people wonder why the world looks upon Christians with less than open arms and happy hearts. You are stating, unequivocally that 67% of the world is wrong and their religion, that they hold as dear as you hold yours is false. You are taking the Bible as literal truth when you cannot prove it is. That is your faith and your faith has no right to decide what is or is not true or false for anyone but yourself.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[magicmato]

If the Bible said that, I'd agree. But it doesn't. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Belief in Jesus' divinity, his burial and resurrection, and saying a salvation prayer are the important issues. Everything else is secondary." Those are distinctions man and churches made up - not guidance from God.

About the only place in the Bible where we are told that one thing is more important than others is when Jesus told us:

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Ok, here is my cynical side, take what I say in this post as just that. This is not a flame on anyone or anyone's personal beliefs.

The way I see it, Jesus was a very great man, not because he was like the present day evangelical preachers who have charisma and can gather together a large flock, but because he actually tried to live as he preached. He preached love and tolerance and he, as far as I know, did not want anyone to bow down to him, he did NOT want to be worshiped.

I think it was the Churches who took his message and figured out that if they made the claim that if you did not believe in Jesus, if you did not worship him, then you would be damned to this violent, horrible, hot place where you would be tormented for eternity. It was their use of fear in what will happen after death that allowed them to amass a large following, not necessarily the teachings of Jesus.

My personal belief is that if Jesus could come back, he would smack quite a few people around for using his life and words to do things that he never intended be done with them.

But that is my cynical side speaking and I do believe there is also beauty to be found in religion, but not just Christianity... ALL (or almost all) RELIGIONS!

 

[aquinas]

Ok, here is my cynical side, take what I say in this post as just that. This is not a flame on anyone or anyone's personal beliefs.

The way I see it, Jesus was a very great man, not because he was like the present day evangelical preachers who have charisma and can gather together a large flock, but because he actually tried to live as he preached. He preached love and tolerance and he, as far as I know, did not want anyone to bow down to him, he did NOT want to be worshiped.

I think it was the Churches who took his message and figured out that if they made the claim that if you did not believe in Jesus, if you did not worship him, then you would be damned to this violent, horrible, hot place where you would be tormented for eternity. It was their use of fear in what will happen after death that allowed them to amass a large following, not necessarily the teachings of Jesus.

My personal belief is that if Jesus could come back, he would smack quite a few people around for using his life and words to do things that he never intended be done with them.

But that is my cynical side speaking and I do believe there is also beauty to be found in religion, but not just Christianity... ALL (or almost all) RELIGIONS!

Hmmm, how much tolerance did Jesus show towards ther money changers in the temple?

How much tolerance did Jesus show to the Pharisees?

Even when he stopped the adulterous woman from being stoned, He told her to go and sin no more. He didnt tolerate Her sin.

Have you read Revelation on how Jesus will be in His Second Coming?

You may want to go back and read where Jesus talked about heaven and hell. These were not manmade devices created to scare people into salvation.

 

[cardaway]

Anybody have the script used for the Candlelight Processional?

IMO that's a perfect example of showing Jesus' impact on the world despite what religion the person may follow.

Nothing about scaring people onto the path like so many others try to do, nothing making it about who is right and wrong.

 

[magicmato]

Hmmm, how much tolerance did Jesus show towards ther money changers in the temple?

How much tolerance did Jesus show to the Pharisees?

Even when he stopped the adulterous woman from being stoned, He told her to go and sin no more. He didnt tolerate Her sin.

Have you read Revelation on how Jesus will be in His Second Coming?

You may want to go back and read where Jesus talked about heaven and hell. These were not manmade devices created to scare people into salvation.

One would have to believe that Jesus' words have come down through the millennia unchanged by human hands. I do not happen to hold that belief. Sorry, man and the churches through the years have been corrupt and I do not believe the Bible is, word for word, what Jesus meant, let alone that it is God telling us that there is *now* only one path to Him. That is more along the line of what the leaders of a Church would want us to believe... hmm... sort of like how now you have different denominations saying only theirs is THE way, eh?

 

[Fitswimmer]

We will just have to disagree. I cannot believe how black and white you are making it. It really saddens me. And then people wonder why the world looks upon Christians with less than open arms and happy hearts. You are stating, unequivocally that 67% of the world is wrong and their religion, that they hold as dear as you hold yours is false. You are taking the Bible as literal truth when you cannot prove it is. That is your faith and your faith has no right to decide what is or is not true or false for anyone but yourself.

I was going to respond to aquinas, but realized I could not have said it better than what I quoted above. As a Christian, that attitude does sadden me. How can I sit here and make an eternal judgement upon someone else?? How can you say you believe in God and then take over His job???

All I can say is that I've chosen the path that I feel is right for ME. I have no place casting judgement on anyone else's choices.

 

[LuvDuke]

I saw a bit on this on the news last night and was only half listening, but i thought they already did DNA testing and the remains in the "Mary" tomb were not related to those in the Jesus tomb. Joseph Mary and Jesus were names like Joseph Mary and Bob back then (think how many Jesus' there are in Mexico right now)..... there could have been another family. Maybe this other family the parents were Jesus and Mary (ie - not related).

Anyway, the bit I heard on it seemed like a bunch of very vague stuff and to make anything out of it is sensationalism at best.

Not too far away from the Garden of Gethsemane, is place revered as Mary's tomb. It has a marking in it pointing to Mecca because Muslims revere Mary as the mother of a prophet. However, the traditional account of Mary is that she went to Ephesus with the apostle John. She supposedly died their and her body ascended into Heaven.

The truth is no one knows for sure. History is not written about poor carpenters from Nazareth.

 

[shrubber]

Didja hear they canceled Easter this year?

















They found the body.

 

[LuvDuke]

How can you say you believe in God and then take over His job???

That is one profound statement that says it all.

 

[LuvDuke]

Didja hear they canceled Easter this year?

They found the body.

Oh for crying out loud. I already bought a ham and ordered a pastierra Napolitana.

 

[Fitswimmer]

That is one profound statement that says it all.

Credit divine inspiration.

 

[salmoneous]

I just do not see how you say Jesus left the door open to alternate paths to God because he said HE is the way. He didnt say that HE is A way. Big distinction.

You miss the point - just because Jesus is THE way, doesn't mean (IMO) that Jesus will only be a pathway for people who believe he was born, died and reserected and who say a salvation prayer.

I believe that Jesus was the pathway for Old Testament Jews. They certainlly didnt' believe in him or say a salvation prayer. Yet Jesus is still their pathway to God.

Perhaps Jesus wishes to bring all women who bear children to God (1 Timothy 2:15). If so, that's his business.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Well, supposedly Jesus was from the line of David. I'm not sure if there's dna available to prove that, but there certainly are dna tests that show certain African tribes are descendants of the Jews. Which gives to rise the whole question of the 12 tribes.

Certainly, dna testing can prove if some Jews are Levy's or Cohen's. I don't know if that is also true for the House of David.

Even if you had DNA from the House of David it would not match. Joseph was of the House of David but the only human DNA would have come from Mary or all of it may have been placed inside of her when she conceived.

I saw a great show where they tracked Y markers and showed that everybody on the face of the earth is from a tribe in Etheopia.

 

[va32h]

I saw a bit on this on the news last night and was only half listening, but i thought they already did DNA testing and the remains in the "Mary" tomb were not related to those in the Jesus tomb. Joseph Mary and Jesus were names like Joseph Mary and Bob back then (think how many Jesus' there are in Mexico right now)..... there could have been another family. Maybe this other family the parents were Jesus and Mary (ie - not related).

Anyway, the bit I heard on it seemed like a bunch of very vague stuff and to make anything out of it is sensationalism at best.

And here I thought 30 pages of arguing about the content put forth in a program that none of us have seen was sensationalism at best.

I'm going to wait until the program is aired, and not rely on half-heard accounts from some vague news program before I post any more on this topic.

 

[mickeyfan2]

News flash. There are absolutes. Everyone cant be right. How can two religions presenting contradictory information both be right? As a Christian, do you think that Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnostism, etc are the way to salvation?

Actually I do. I believe that God made different ways for different peoples. For me it is Christianity but for others it is another way. My God is kind and merciful and would not turn about 4.5 billion people.

 

[magicmato]

Actually I do. I believe that God made different ways for different peoples. For me it is Christianity but for others it is another way. My God is kind and merciful and would not turn about 4.5 billion people.

I agree and this was my point. God has infinite potential and it seems mind-boggling for anyone to state that God could not have given many paths to Him/Her/It. I personally think all religions are looking at the same divinity/energy/what-have-you and interpreting it in the way they can best understand it.

I cannot comprehend the belief that God, in his infinite might and wisdom would just give one path and damn billions of people based upon where they were born.