Jesus wasn't resurrected

[va32h]

SIGH...OH HOW I HAVE BEEN SO WRONG! How could I have not seen it. Thank you cardaway and all the other atheists here for opening my eyes. JAMES CAMERON is right! Jesus never existed...or he did and was just some dude...either way, YAY no more religion!

I can tell you one place I know of that's filled with "holes". Have a blessed day..oops, I mean have a scientifically-empirically-accurate day!

Actually, I don' think James Cameron is trying to prove Jesus didn't exist. In fact, based on the interviews I have seen, he and the journalist he appeared with are very excited because they think the ossuaries prove that Jesus did exist. They are billing this as "proof Jesus did walk on earth" not "proof that he didn't ascend body and soul into heaven."

And I don't think they are trying to prove he was "just some dude" either. Their whole argument revolves around the probability of those names Mary, Joseph, Jesus, Mary Magdalene - all being in the same tomb together. Which means they are relying on what we know of Jesus from the Bible (that his parents where named Mary and Joseph, that he had female friend known as Mary Magdalen).

I will admit, I have never given much thought to whether the resurrection and bodily assumption into heaven was a crucial part of my faith. And I have to say - based on the media coverage of this documentary, I think I'm not the only one.

All media reports I have seen focus on the "scandal" of Jesus possibly being married and having a child, not one interview I have seen brings up the issue of what Jesus' bones would mean to the belief of the ressurrection and ascension.

That in itself is very interesting, IMO. I think it shows that there is a disconnect between what people think is important to people of faith and what actually is.

I've been following this thread all along, and it seems that most of the professed Christians have said that the issue of ressurrection is far more relevant to them than the marriage/child issue.

Whether God exists or not is not a question that is going to be resolved on a message board. I really don't see the point in arguing back and forth - prove it's true, prove it's not. We only have to settle the question of faith within ourselves, not prove it to each other. That goes for both sides of the debate!

But faith should not preclude study. I find the study of ancient civilizations fascinating in general, and will be watching this documentary with interest.

 

[Christine]

Um... why is questioning wrong? Aren't you supposed to question? I thought that Jesus asked us to use our minds and figure it out for ourselves? Why would anyone get upset because others did not feel the same way as they do? Last I checked, even Christians did not all agree with one another, so why would you expect everyone else to agree on it?

I am not trying to be mean, just asking. I just don't understand why questioning would so upset people. Faith is personal and I do not understand how others questioning would do anything to your own personal faith?

BTW, I am not an atheist. lol

I believe that some religious discourage questioning. Currently, my kids are in Catholic school (oldest in high school and youngest in 6th grade). Especially for my youngest, they get a "talk" about this stuff during class. The "new findings" have already been addressed by one of his nun instructors. The kids were told in no uncertain terms that this is hogwash and that they "better not be listening to any of these lies."

This is how the "questioning" is thwarted in religion. It seems to me that if a religion was confident in what it believes, it would not have to suppress and threaten any new information that comes out. It should be dealt with respectfully like anything else, even if it goes against the teachings.

 

[Aidensmom]

and I still can't touch a stripper or buy beer before 11:00 on sundays.

Just a quick off topic comment -

Amity, a couple of Sundays ago I saw some people drinking beer at the Florida State Fair (which is in Hillsborough County) at about 10:00 am, and I immediately thought of you.

 

[DISUNC]

Actually, I don' think James Cameron is trying to prove Jesus didn't exist. In fact, based on the interviews I have seen, he and the journalist he appeared with are very excited because they think the ossuaries prove that Jesus did exist. They are billing this as "proof Jesus did walk on earth" not "proof that he didn't ascend body and soul into heaven."

And I don't think they are trying to prove he was "just some dude" either. Their whole argument revolves around the probability of those names Mary, Joseph, Jesus, Mary Magdalene - all being in the same tomb together. Which means they are relying on what we know of Jesus from the Bible (that his parents where named Mary and Joseph, that he had female friend known as Mary Magdalen).

I will admit, I have never given much thought to whether the resurrection and bodily assumption into heaven was a crucial part of my faith. And I have to say - based on the media coverage of this documentary, I think I'm not the only one.

All media reports I have seen focus on the "scandal" of Jesus possibly being married and having a child, not one interview I have seen brings up the issue of what Jesus' bones would mean to the belief of the ressurrection and ascension.

That in itself is very interesting, IMO. I think it shows that there is a disconnect between what people think is important to people of faith and what actually is.

I've been following this thread all along, and it seems that most of the professed Christians have said that the issue of ressurrection is far more relevant to them than the marriage/child issue.

Whether God exists or not is not a question that is going to be resolved on a message board. I really don't see the point in arguing back and forth - prove it's true, prove it's not. We only have to settle the question of faith within ourselves, not prove it to each other. That goes for both sides of the debate!

But faith should not preclude study. I find the study of ancient civilizations fascinating in general, and will be watching this documentary with interest.

I for sure will watch this with much interest! I find the subject matter fascinating!
Will it change my mind? I seriously doubt it!

I can't fault or praise the documentary in any way, since I have not seen it!

 

[The_Horned_King]

But are you willing to stake your life on "what ifs"? just curious.

The Gospels were first hand accounts of Jesus and Jospehus references Jesus as well in his writings.

First you are staking your life on a "what if". Jesus/and the christian religion is a what if. just like the jewish faith is a what if or the budhist faith. All what if's.

As for them being first hand accounts....if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you....honestly they we're written houndreds of years after the fact! You need to stop believeing in your faith so blindly. Jesus would never had wanted you to just go along with what someone says without questioning it.

 

[The_Horned_King]

I believe that some religious discourage questioning. Currently, my kids are in Catholic school (oldest in high school and youngest in 6th grade). Especially for my youngest, they get a "talk" about this stuff during class. The "new findings" have already been addressed by one of his nun instructors. The kids were told in no uncertain terms that this is hogwash and that they "better not be listening to any of these lies."

This is how the "questioning" is thwarted in religion. It seems to me that if a religion was confident in what it believes, it would not have to suppress and threaten any new information that comes out. It should be dealt with respectfully like anything else, even if it goes against the teachings.

Just a question to you...do you support questioning??? If so how can you handle your kids being in such a supressive environment? As a parent (which I am not yet) I would be horrified if this unwillingness to question and learn was being taught to my kids.

 

[aquinas]

Other religions can state the same about your beliefs. Your "I am right and you are wrong" stuff really is a turn off. There are no absolutes in faith. Faith just is.

There are absolutes in this world. Excuse me but your postmodernity is showing. Everything is not relative. A person could have faith that their dog is God. But their faith in that would be wrong. Hindus could have faith that their relatives were reincarnated and now are cows. There again their faith would be wrong. People put their faith into a lot of wrong headed notions and ideas. There ARE absolutes in faith as there is in everything else in the world. Truth is not relative to everyone's personal experiences.

 

[The_Horned_King]

There are absolutes in this world. Excuse me but your postmodernity is showing. Everything is not relative. A person could have faith that their dog is God. But their faith in that would be wrong. Hindus could have faith that their relatives were reincarnated and now are cows. There again their faith would be wrong. People put their faith into a lot of wrong headed notions and ideas. There ARE absolutes in faith as there is in everything else in the world. Truth is not relative to everyone's personal experiences.

Honestly why should I expect anything different to be said form a poster who's name is Aquinas.?!

 

[magicmato]

There are absolutes in this world. Excuse me but your postmodernity is showing. Everything is not relative. A person could have faith that their dog is God. But their faith in that would be wrong. Hindus could have faith that their relatives were reincarnated and now are cows. There again their faith would be wrong. People put their faith into a lot of wrong headed notions and ideas. There ARE absolutes in faith as there is in everything else in the world. Truth is not relative to everyone's personal experiences.

So you are actually going to make fun of reincarnation, but then espouse that everyone must believe that someone came back from the dead and then ascended to heaven? Honestly?

I would hope you could see the hypocracy in that sentiment. BTW, you do not get to decide for the world what is an absolute and what is not. If it was an absolute, it could be proven. There is no proof.

 

[aquinas]

So you are actually going to make fun of reincarnation, but then espouse that everyone must believe that someone came back from the dead and then ascended to heaven? Honestly?

I would hope you could see the hypocracy in that sentiment. BTW, you do not get to decide for the world what is an absolute and what is not. If it was an absolute, it could be proven. There is no proof.

I didnt make fun of reincarnation, I used it as an example of wrong headed faith.

People are free to believe what they will. I never said that everyone must believe because the road is narrow. Many people's hearts have already been hardened. This thread is a perfect example of that. Believe what you will.

You are right, I dont get to decide what is an absolute. God has given people free will to make whatever decision they like, even ones that affect their eternity.

 

[Christine]

Just a question to you...do you support questioning??? If so how can you handle your kids being in such a supressive environment? As a parent (which I am not yet) I would be horrified if this unwillingness to question and learn was being taught to my kids.

Yes, I totally support questioning and we do a LOT of talking at home.

My kids are in Catholic school purely for the academics (we are not Catholic). We are zoned for fairly bad middle and high schools and I just can't use them. My only other choice is the Catholic school.

I will say that *most* of my children's experiences with the Catholic teachings have been respectful; however, we have run across one or two teachers that have been, what I would call, disrespectful and ignorant. When my kids come home and tell me what has been said, we usually get into lengthy discussions. Already, at 12, my son knows that the nun (who he really likes) is not keeping an open mind.

 

[LuvDuke]

Just a quick off topic comment -

Amity, a couple of Sundays ago I saw some people drinking beer at the Florida State Fair (which is in Hillsborough County) at about 10:00 am, and I immediately thought of you.

Ahh, but was one of them holding on to a stripper?

 

[What the Heck]

maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I was wondering how was he proving the dna was from Jesus? Does he have an original sample from Jesus to test it against?

 

[LuvDuke]

I didnt make fun of reincarnation, I used it as an example of wrong headed faith.

People are free to believe what they will. I never said that everyone must believe because the road is narrow. Many people's hearts have already been hardened. This thread is a perfect example of that. Believe what you will.

You are right, I dont get to decide what is an absolute. God has given people free will to make whatever decision they like, even ones that affect their eternity.

It begs the question: Why are those who believe in reincarnation wrong and you right?

It seems to me you're afraid of the "what if's" more than I ever was. I have no fear of truth; you seem to be terrified of it and dismiss, out of hand, whatever may not mesh with what you already believe.

And the question still stands: What if James Cameron is right?

 

[jimmiej]

Btw, The Gospels were not written by any one with those first hand accounts.

You say that as if it's established fact. A quick google search shows that's not necessarily the case.

 

[LuvDuke]

maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I was wondering how was he proving the dna was from Jesus? Does he have an original sample from Jesus to test it against?

Well, supposedly Jesus was from the line of David. I'm not sure if there's dna available to prove that, but there certainly are dna tests that show certain African tribes are descendants of the Jews. Which gives to rise the whole question of the 12 tribes.

Certainly, dna testing can prove if some Jews are Levy's or Cohen's. I don't know if that is also true for the House of David.

 

[LuvDuke]

You say that as if it's established fact. A quick google search shows that's not necessarily the case.

Really? So who wrote the Gospels and NOT who are they attributed to?

*EDITED TO ADD*

I believe the Gospels were written in Greek which is not the 2nd language of illiterate fisherman from Galilee.

 

[magicmato]

I didnt make fun of reincarnation, I used it as an example of wrong headed faith.

People are free to believe what they will. I never said that everyone must believe because the road is narrow. Many people's hearts have already been hardened. This thread is a perfect example of that. Believe what you will.

You are right, I dont get to decide what is an absolute. God has given people free will to make whatever decision they like, even ones that affect their eternity.

No, you are just stating that a large group of people's faith is "wrong". Sorry, right, you did not make fun of it.

This, right here, is what has turned me off from organized religion. I cannot believe that God would want to have this attitude representing Him. It just is disturbing.

 

[TruBlu]

Have any of you guys read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel? It is a fascinating book that addresses many of these topics. He was a Yale educated, atheist, journalist who began an investigation into the life of Christ after his wife became a believer. I highly recommend it!

 

[va32h]

maybe it was mentioned earlier, but I was wondering how was he proving the dna was from Jesus? Does he have an original sample from Jesus to test it against?

The dna testing would be to prove the various bones were related to each other; i.e. that the bones identified as the son of Jesus would have dna from the bones identified as Jesus and those identified as Mary Magdalene.