Jesus wasn't resurrected

[cardaway]

No, you are just stating that a large group of people's faith is "wrong". Sorry, right, you did not make fun of it.

There was also the comment about eternity. When talking about rude comments in these religion threads the going to hell type comments really stand alone and the make everything else look pretty respectable.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I don't know if Cameron's right or wrong. My question is "what if he's right"?

I know people spend a lot of time telling each other about how right and wrong they are regarding matters of faith, but that's not the way I view it. Faith to me is about accepting what cannot be proven. I may be in for one heck of a shock when I die, but that's my problem to live with. I can't objectively prove ANYTHING about my faith. That's why it's faith.

I can't really answer "what if he's right" because it would be the same matter of faith to accept that he's right as it would be to accept that he isn't. If you have faith and confidence in the experts that say he's right, then you're going to accept that. If you have faith and confidence in the other experts that say he's wrong, you're going to accept that. The limits of evidence from that time period just don't allow for absolutes on either side.

 

[Fitswimmer]

There are absolutes in this world. Excuse me but your postmodernity is showing. Everything is not relative. A person could have faith that their dog is God. But their faith in that would be wrong. Hindus could have faith that their relatives were reincarnated and now are cows. There again their faith would be wrong. People put their faith into a lot of wrong headed notions and ideas. There ARE absolutes in faith as there is in everything else in the world. Truth is not relative to everyone's personal experiences.

There are absolutes to you and there are absolutes to other people. News flash here but they're probably NOT the same absolutes. In case I missed the memo where you were declared God, you don't get to define the absolutes.

 

[aquinas]

It begs the question: Why are those who believe in reincarnation wrong and you right?

It seems to me you're afraid of the "what if's" more than I ever was. I have no fear of truth; you seem to be terrified of it and dismiss, out of hand, whatever may not mesh with what you already believe.

And the question still stands: What if James Cameron is right?

There is not a chance of Cameron being right in this case because his premise and evidence he presents are so flawed and incredulous. Cameron is not presenting anything that resembles truth. He asks the viewers to make extreme leaps in logic.

Oh, I am afraid of the what ifs, alright. "What if" God never extended His mercy and grace to an undeserving, stiff necked, and rebellious people?

"What if" God never sent His son to the cross for a propitation for our sins?

"What if" I never accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior?

"What if" I never share my faith with others especially loved ones and they die without coming to a saving relationship with Christ?

Oh, I am afraid of the "what ifs". Very afraid. But Cameron's piece of science fiction isnt one of the "What ifs" I am even remotely concerned with.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

There is not a chance of Cameron being right in this case because his premise and evidence he presents are so flawed and incredulous. Cameron is not presenting anything that resembles truth. He asks the viewers to make extreme leaps in logic.

Oh, I am afraid of the what ifs, alright. "What if" God never extended is mercy and grace to an undeserving, stiff necked, and rebellious people?

"What if" God never sent His son to the cross for a propitation for our sins?

"What if" I never accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior?

"What if" I never share my faith with others especially loved ones and they die without coming to a saving relationship with Christ?

Oh, I am afraid of the "what ifs". Very afraid. But Cameron's piece of science fiction isnt one of the "What ifs" I am even remotely concerned with.

Amen!

 

[aquinas]

There are absolutes to you and there are absolutes to other people. News flash here but they're probably NOT the same absolutes. In case I missed the memo where you were declared God, you don't get to define the absolutes.

News flash. There are absolutes. Everyone cant be right. How can two religions presenting contradictory information both be right? As a Christian, do you think that Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnostism, etc are the way to salvation? Do you hold your faith in God as absolute? I do. There are mysteries of the faith to be sure that no one this side of heaven will ever grasp. As Luther once said, "the finite can not comprehend the infinite". However, God IS absolute. Jesus is the only Absolute way to go to heaven. God declares this. Creation testifies to this.

 

[CheshireVal]

News flash. There are absolutes. Everyone cant be right. How can two religions presenting contradictory information both be right? As a Christian, do you think that Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnostism, etc are the way to salvation? Do you hold your faith in God as absolute? I do.

Er, I think that's what fitswimmer was talking about when he mentioned differing absolutes. Many Hindus, Buddhists, etc hold their faiths as absolute, too.

You may have absolute faith that yours is the right choice, but you can't claim it as the one and only absolute truth until you're dead and know for sure.

 

[my4kids]

The dna testing would be to prove the various bones were related to each other; i.e. that the bones identified as the son of Jesus would have dna from the bones identified as Jesus and those identified as Mary Magdalene.

I saw a bit on this on the news last night and was only half listening, but i thought they already did DNA testing and the remains in the "Mary" tomb were not related to those in the Jesus tomb. Joseph Mary and Jesus were names like Joseph Mary and Bob back then (think how many Jesus' there are in Mexico right now)..... there could have been another family. Maybe this other family the parents were Jesus and Mary (ie - not related).

Anyway, the bit I heard on it seemed like a bunch of very vague stuff and to make anything out of it is sensationalism at best.

 

[cardaway]

One thing is for sure. You have to wonder why something supposedly so off base is getting so much attention.

 

[aquinas]

Er, I think that's what fitswimmer was talking about when he mentioned differing absolutes. Many Hindus, Buddhists, etc hold their faiths as absolute, too.

You may have absolute faith that yours is the right choice, but you can't claim it as the one and only absolute truth until you're dead and know for sure.

Jesus WAS dead. People witness his return from the dead. The disciples who were hiding out and scared to death, came forward and proclaimed Christ crucified and all were martyered, save one. What else other than Christ's resurrection would lead these men to such action?

My faith is rooted in the absolute nature of God. My faith would be no faith at all if I believed there were other ways to the Father but through the Son.

 

[magicmato]

News flash. There are absolutes. Everyone cant be right. How can two religions presenting contradictory information both be right? As a Christian, do you think that Hinduism, Buddhism, Gnostism, etc are the way to salvation? Do you hold your faith in God as absolute? I do. There are mysteries of the faith to be sure that no one this side of heaven will ever grasp. As Luther once said, "the finite can not comprehend the infinite". However, God IS absolute. Jesus is the only Absolute way to go to heaven. God declares this. Creation testifies to this.

Ok, so you feel that God is infinate and can do whatever He wants, but he only has the ability to give us ONE way to salvation? You cannot even open your mind enough to think that perhaps He knows that everyone is different and therefore gives multiple paths so that everyone can find Him, however they can?

Which is it? Is God limitless or is He limited? If He is limitless, than you have to at least admit that there is a possibility that all those paths you ridicule could also be "the Way" for someone else.

 

[salmoneous]

How can two religions presenting contradictory information both be right?

Because they don't necessarily conflict. Different braches within Christiniaty believe different things. Does that make one branch right, and one wrong. Even within a branch, people disagree.

You may be the only person on earth who believes exactly what you believe. Or maybe there are 10, or 100 or even 1,000 that believe exactly what you do. Does that mean that there are only two choices - either you are right and the rest of the world is wrong, or they are right or you are wrong.

I don't think so. I think the fact that we believe different things doesn't necessarily mean that one of us is right, and one wrong....

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Ok, so you feel that God is infinate and can do whatever He wants, but he only has the ability to give us ONE way to salvation? You cannot even open your mind enough to think that perhaps He knows that everyone is different and therefore gives multiple paths so that everyone can find Him, however they can?

Which is it? Is God limitless or is He limited? If He is limitless, than you have to at least admit that there is a possibility that all those paths you ridicule could also be "the Way" for someone else.

His Son Jesus said only one way -- and to preach it to all the world.

 

[aquinas]

Because they don't necessarily conflict. Different braches within Christiniaty believe different things. Does that make one branch right, and one wrong. Even within a branch, people disagree.

You may be the only person on earth who believes exactly what you believe. Or maybe there are 10, or 100 or even 1,000 that believe exactly what you do. Does that mean that there are only two choices - either you are right and the rest of the world is wrong, or they are right or you are wrong.

I don't think so. I think the fact that we believe different things doesn't necessarily mean that one of us is right, and one wrong....

It depends on what the branches on Christianity disagree on. We are called to be unified around the Gospel of Jesus crucified, buried, and resurrected and that we accept Jesus as our personal savior. Other issues are secondary. But unfortunately, througout history different people have made secondary issues primary and caused division and schism where there shouldnt have been .

Extending that to you and I. We can disagree on several different secondary issues and still have unity. However, if we disagree on the path of salvation then we can not have unity. There is only ONE way to salvation. Therefore, there is a right and wrong when it comes to salvation.

 

[aquinas]

Ok, so you feel that God is infinate and can do whatever He wants, but he only has the ability to give us ONE way to salvation? You cannot even open your mind enough to think that perhaps He knows that everyone is different and therefore gives multiple paths so that everyone can find Him, however they can?

Which is it? Is God limitless or is He limited? If He is limitless, than you have to at least admit that there is a possibility that all those paths you ridicule could also be "the Way" for someone else.

Yes, God is limitless. But God also is sovereign and good. God loves each and everyone of us and doesnt want to see any of us perish eternally. God does not lie. Jesus says, HE is the way. The ONLY way. Now why would God lie? If there are multiple paths, or pluralism, as you suggest then why didnt God tell His people that? If it is some hidden mysterious path that we must find then we are all doomed because we can not come to God on our own. Our sinful hearts are hostile to God.

There is only one way to heaven along the narrow road through Christ. The broad road leads to somewhere else entirely.

 

[magicmato]

We will just have to disagree. I cannot believe how black and white you are making it. It really saddens me. And then people wonder why the world looks upon Christians with less than open arms and happy hearts. You are stating, unequivocally that 67% of the world is wrong and their religion, that they hold as dear as you hold yours is false. You are taking the Bible as literal truth when you cannot prove it is. That is your faith and your faith has no right to decide what is or is not true or false for anyone but yourself.

 

[salmoneous]

We are called to be unified around the Gospel of Jesus crucified, buried, and resurrected and that we accept Jesus as our personal savior. Other issues are secondary.

But that is just you picking one arbitrary set of conditions to be important. Why that list, on not some other? Why do *you* get to decide what issues are primary, and which are secondary?

There is only ONE way to salvation. Therefore, there is a right and wrong when it comes to salvation.

Note that Jesus said that he was the way, but he said nothing at all about how we access that way.

Clearly your way is very different from the way of Old Testament Jews. Were they wrong? Do they have no salvation?

Enoch never believed in Jesus - his death, burial or resurrection. He never accepted Jesus as his personal savior. Yet we are told that Enoch walked with God. Clearly there is more than one way to access the way to God.

 

[magicmato]

But that is just you picking one arbitrary set of conditions to be important. Why that list, on not some other? Why do *you* get to decide what issues are primary, and which are secondary?
Note that Jesus said that he was the way, but he said nothing at all about how we access that way.

Clearly your way is very different from the way of Old Testament Jews. Were they wrong? Do they have no salvation?

Enoch never believed in Jesus - his death, burial or resurrection. He never accepted Jesus as his personal savior. Yet we are told that Enoch walked with God. Clearly there is more than one way to access the way to God.

Very interesting point. What about the Jewish people? Are they not allowed into heaven unless they worship Christ? Last I checked, they did not...

 

[aquinas]

But that is just you picking one arbitrary set of conditions to be important. Why that list, on not some other? Why do *you* get to decide what issues are primary, and which are secondary?
Note that Jesus said that he was the way, but he said nothing at all about how we access that way.

Clearly your way is very different from the way of Old Testament Jews. Were they wrong? Do they have no salvation?

Enoch never believed in Jesus - his death, burial or resurrection. He never accepted Jesus as his personal savior. Yet we are told that Enoch walked with God. Clearly there is more than one way to access the way to God.

I am talking about present time not the OT. I am sorry I didnt clarify that. Clearly the Bible tells us that God's faithful people before the earthly incarnation of Jesus are in heaven.

But for people today, Jesus tells us that HE is the only way to the Father.

 

[aquinas]

But that is just you picking one arbitrary set of conditions to be important. Why that list, on not some other? Why do *you* get to decide what issues are primary, and which are secondary?

sorry, missed this question.

I never said I get to decide. God decides and in His revealed Word He tells us that the primary source of unity is to be centered around the Gospel of Jesus Christ and through Him we are granted salvation.