Jesus wasn't resurrected

[JennyMominRI]

You're probably not old enough to remember the old Good Friday prayers in the Catholic church and the way they referred to Jews. Even as a small child that just didn't feel right.
There are those in the Church that have made some strong efforts towards denouncing those old time prejudices. There's a documentary about one Sister that was at the forefront of the movement to change the way Catholics were taught about Judaism-I keep seeing at Blockbuster, one of these days I'll bring it home. I had a theology professor in college that brought an entire Holocaust awareness program to the school. There are some small steps being taken, but it can't take away from the years of institutionalized anti-Semitism.

Pope JP2 probably did more to repair the rift between Catholics and Jews that the 10 Popes prior to him did.

 

[milkabum]

He also claims that dinosaurs go moo.

 

[JennyMominRI]

He also claims that dinosaurs go moo.

Who does?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Pope JP2 probably did more to repair the rift between Catholics and Jews that the 10 Popes prior to him did.

I read a biography of him that said healing that rift was a major goal for him.


OT-but can you translate the line in your siggy?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I read a biography of him that said healing that rift was a major goal for him.


OT-but can you translate the line in your siggy?

Serve G-d with joy...It's a Hasidic Jewish expression.. I actually learned it from a Hasidic Rabbi in one of my conversion classes.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Serve G-d with joy...It's a Hasidic Jewish expression.. I actually learned it from a Hasidic Rabbi in one of my conversion classes.

That's beautiful. Now that I know the meaning, it will serve as a reminder for me everytime I see it. Serving God with Joy is something I'd like to be better at, sometimes I serve from obligation and I think God would be more pleased with joy.

 

[mickeyfan2]

So? There are a lot of texts from thousands of years ago. Do we now claim that everything that Plato wrote is historically accurate? I guess we should go back to looking for Atlantis, then!

Actually I saw a great show on this and they think they may have found Atlantis. IIRC it is located in the Capian Sea.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Wasn't there a Bill Cosby comedy sketch regarding a discussion between Moses and God that had this punch line, "you want us to cut off what?"

Yes there was. It was a good one too.

There is a simply gory incident in the Old Testament in which the brothers of Diana manage to convert an entire tribe of non-Jews to Judaism in their plans to carry out revenge for Diana's rape. As a part of the conversion the men must, of course, be circumcised. The New Revised Standard Version of the Holy Bible describes the following attack on the tribe "while the men were still in their pain" or lines to that effect.

That is the one where they all got circumcised and then when all the males are recovering the brothers of Diana slay all the other males.

I have heard -- but not from any truly credible source -- that circumcision of male converts to Judaism is still required as a sign of the covenant established between G-d and Abraham. Male converts who are already circumcised are required to undergo a ceremonial procedure which mirrors the circumcision but is not circumcision. It is all a symbol of the covenant between G-d and the Jews.

There are many kinds of covenants -- but a blood covenant is the biggest covenant between G-d and humanity. The blood covenant is the reason for the Temple sacrifices and, for Christians, it is the reason for the death of Jesus on the cross.

I had a girlfriend who was Jewish. She was marrying a Catholic. The Rabbi asked if he wanted to convert and he did not. The Rabbi then asked if he would just do circumcision (he worded it differently) but he was already circumcised.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That's beautiful. Now that I know the meaning, it will serve as a reminder for me everytime I see it. Serving God with Joy is something I'd like to be better at, sometimes I serve from obligation and I think God would be more pleased with joy.

Here is a rabbi's interpretation of this

A hallmark of Jewish philosophy, particularly within the Chabad and other Chasidic movements, places a great emphasis upon a joyful service of G-d. When one considers the long and difficult history of the Jewish people, one may ask in all fairness, "Why and how does one do this?"

Serving G-d with a joyful attitude is a Mitzvah, as the daily prayers say,

"Ivdu et Hashem bi'simcha"

(Serve G-d with joy)! Is it realistic to demand a joyful service of our Creator in light of all the difficulties found within the world, and most notably those that have faced and continue to face our nation?

The Baal Shem Tov, originator of Chasidic Philosophy, emphasized the need for this critical mindset, as he developed his approach to divine service nearly 300 years ago. His prayers were conducted in a state of near ecstasy, and such has been the custom of Chasidim since his times.

This euphoric state is reached not by ignoring what is occurring in the world around us, but instead because of what we see. The first fact that should bring any of us to great happiness is the fact that the Master of the Universe has entrusted us with His most precious gift, the Torah. It is the greatest honor to have been chosen as keepers of G-d's will and wisdom that are espoused within the Torah. Every commandment that we fulfill draws us closer into the bosom of our Creator. It is His ultimate expression of love for us, that He has given us His Torah that lends meaning and value to our lives. The Torah ennobles our existence!

When we couple this fact with the idea that we Jews believe in a personal G-d, a G-d that takes a "personal interest" in how we live our lives, and therefore is intimately involved with every aspect of our lives, we come to an increased state of joy.

It is true that there is much darkness in the world, but at least we have been given a method to dispel the darkness using the light of Torah. There is always hope. Hope creates joy and gives purpose to those who have it. Those people who feel no hope suffer from depression. We know however, that we have a G-dly soul, described as a "Veritable portion of G-d Above!" How can one with such a powerful force within, not feel happiness?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I had a girlfriend who was Jewish. She was marrying a Catholic. The Rabbi asked if he wanted to convert and he did not. The Rabbi then asked if he would just do circumcision (he worded it differently) but .

Hatifat dam brit? That is the symbolic circumcision involving a pinprick

 

[agnes!]

...Yes, there are many writings. But you cannot claim they are fact. You cannot claim to know that the version we have now is the version that was originally written. You cannot know or claim as fact that anyone who is in the Bible or even who supposedly wrote the Bible actually existed. That is just fact. That is why faith is required to believe in the Bible. If it were fact and provable, you would not need faith any more.

Actually, a tablet with the name of "Pilate" was found in Israel - I think it had "procurator"(or governor) on it as well and was a proclamation of some sort? I would have to go look up the particulars.
So at least there is independent proof that a person with stature in the Roman government of Jerusalem/Israel existed around the time that the New Testament says he existed. Whether or not Pontius Pilate or his wife did or said the things the Gospels said they did is another matter entirely.

You know what? I think it's pretty amazing that we are sitting here in the year 2007 discussing a series of books called The Bible, the New Testament parts of which can be verified to be almost 2000 years old (at least the scrolls I saw). I don't know off-hand how old the oldest copies of the Books from the earlier parts are, like the oldest copy of Deuteronomy or Moses.

I mean...think about it...the oldest Dead Sea Scrolls are almost contemporaneous to the timeframe of Roman Palestine. Very few (if any?) other works from that time are still being read, are still being discussed amongst the general public. Regardless of what you think of The Bible as an object of faith, isn't just the fact that we are talking about this old collection of books in one-volume form...isn't that just kind of..."cool"?

Sort of OT, but I went to an exhibition at the Smithsonian that had the earliest known Bibles in existence, starting with actual single-"book" pieces of scrolls from the Dead Sea Scrolls cache. The exhibit showed how The Bible started out as separate teachings/writings on scrolls gradually changing into small individual booklet that were easier for the heretical early Christians to hide fomr the authorities. Then around 1000 AD or so the massive compilation in one-volume form we know know as The Bible came on the scene.

agnes!

 

[magicmato]

Here is a rabbi's interpretation of this

A hallmark of Jewish philosophy, particularly within the Chabad and other Chasidic movements, places a great emphasis upon a joyful service of G-d. When one considers the long and difficult history of the Jewish people, one may ask in all fairness, "Why and how does one do this?"

Serving G-d with a joyful attitude is a Mitzvah, as the daily prayers say,

"Ivdu et Hashem bi'simcha"

(Serve G-d with joy)! Is it realistic to demand a joyful service of our Creator in light of all the difficulties found within the world, and most notably those that have faced and continue to face our nation?

The Baal Shem Tov, originator of Chasidic Philosophy, emphasized the need for this critical mindset, as he developed his approach to divine service nearly 300 years ago. His prayers were conducted in a state of near ecstasy, and such has been the custom of Chasidim since his times.

This euphoric state is reached not by ignoring what is occurring in the world around us, but instead because of what we see. The first fact that should bring any of us to great happiness is the fact that the Master of the Universe has entrusted us with His most precious gift, the Torah. It is the greatest honor to have been chosen as keepers of G-d's will and wisdom that are espoused within the Torah. Every commandment that we fulfill draws us closer into the bosom of our Creator. It is His ultimate expression of love for us, that He has given us His Torah that lends meaning and value to our lives. The Torah ennobles our existence!

When we couple this fact with the idea that we Jews believe in a personal G-d, a G-d that takes a "personal interest" in how we live our lives, and therefore is intimately involved with every aspect of our lives, we come to an increased state of joy.

It is true that there is much darkness in the world, but at least we have been given a method to dispel the darkness using the light of Torah. There is always hope. Hope creates joy and gives purpose to those who have it. Those people who feel no hope suffer from depression. We know however, that we have a G-dly soul, described as a "Veritable portion of G-d Above!" How can one with such a powerful force within, not feel happiness?

Wow, the things you write... I am still trying to find my path, but I hope someday to have the ability to speak with as much knowledge and eloquence as you do.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Wow, the things you write... I am still trying to find my path, but I hope someday to have the ability to speak with as much knowledge and eloquence as you do.

I didn't write that..I stole it from a Rabbi...If my life had been a bit different I would have liked to be a Rabbi

 

[magicmato]

Actually, a tablet with the name of "Pilate" was found in Israel - I think it had "procurator"(or governor) on it as well and was a proclamation of some sort? I would have to go look up the particulars.
So at least there is independent proof that a person with stature in the Roman government of Jerusalem/Israel existed around the time that the New Testament says he existed. Whether or not Pontius Pilate or his wife did or said the things the Gospels said they did is another matter entirely.

You know what? I think it's pretty amazing that we are sitting here in the year 2007 discussing a series of books called The Bible, the New Testament parts of which can be verified to be almost 2000 years old (at least the scrolls I saw). I don't know off-hand how old the oldest copies of the Books from the earlier parts are, like the oldest copy of Deuteronomy or Moses.

I mean...think about it...the oldest Dead Sea Scrolls are almost contemporaneous to the timeframe of Roman Palestine. Very few (if any?) other works from that time are still being read, are still being discussed amongst the general public. Regardless of what you think of The Bible as an object of faith, isn't just the fact that we are talking about this old collection of books in one-volume form...isn't that just kind of..."cool"?

Sort of OT, but I went to an exhibition at the Smithsonian that had the earliest known Bibles in existence, starting with actual single-"book" pieces of scrolls from the Dead Sea Scrolls cache. The exhibit showed how The Bible started out as separate teachings/writings on scrolls gradually changing into small individual booklet that were easier for the heretical early Christians to hide fomr the authorities. Then around 1000 AD or so the massive compilation in one-volume form we know know as The Bible came on the scene.

agnes!

Oh, I agree that the Bible, as an enduring text that moves emotions and can create faith is an amazing thing. I just question using it as a basis for argument as if it were provable fact. As I said, if it were fact, there would be no need for faith.

 

[magicmato]

I didn't write that..I stole it from a Rabbi...If my life had been a bit different I would have liked to be a Rabbi

Still, I could not, at present, come up with that off the top of my head, whether pinching it from someone else or not.

 

[Fitswimmer]

It is true that there is much darkness in the world, but at least we have been given a method to dispel the darkness using the light of Torah. There is always hope. Hope creates joy and gives purpose to those who have it. Those people who feel no hope suffer from depression. We know however, that we have a G-dly soul, described as a "Veritable portion of G-d Above!" How can one with such a powerful force within, not feel happiness?

Our pastor did a sermon recently that wasn't too far from this idea. He also spoke about hope and how our faith in God and our connection to Him is where the source of our hope is. He based his sermon on the NT passage that talks about Faith, Hope and Charity-the greatest of these being charity. His point was that all 3 exist together, because without faith there is no hope and without hope there is no motivation for charity.

Now, of course this was a sermon preached in a Catholic Church so there is a context issue. I'm not saying that non-Christians are lacking in any of these areas, or cannot attain them without Christianity and I'm fairly sure he wouldn't say that either.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Hatifat dam brit? That is the symbolic circumcision involving a pinprick

I don't think they did that either. She said the Rabbi stopped when she stated that he was circumcised. Now this was a more liberal Rabbi (I forget which) so that might have been enough for them.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I don't think they did that either. She said the Rabbi stopped when she stated that he was circumcised. Now this was a more liberal Rabbi (I forget which) so that might have been enough for them.

Probably a reform Rabbi..They are very open to mixed religion couples

 

[Amity 3]

if my wife would let me, I'd marry Jenny in a heartbeat. but she has to let me have bacon in my diet.

JoyG's is in the on deck circle.

 

[JennyMominRI]

if my wife would let me, I'd marry Jenny in a heartbeat. but she has to let me have bacon in my diet.
.

mmmmmmmmmmmm Bacon