Jan 19, 2019 - The day the magic died

[we"reofftoneverland]

In December, the Orange County Register published an article entitled Disneyland is Quietly Revoking Annual Passes of Guests Who Buy and Resell Souvenirs (see: https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/...asses-of-guests-who-buy-and-resell-souvenirs/ ). Disneyland has been quietly revoking the annual passes of so-called “personal shoppers” and others who buy collectible merchandise inside the parks and then resell it, either to individuals or online, according to observers and people who say it happened to them.

Yesterday, the Los Angeles Times published an article entitled Disneyland Resort Tickets and Parking Prices are Going Up Again, as Much as 25% (see: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-disneyland-prices-increase-20190106-story.html ).
Regarding the reason for the increase, Disneyland Resort spokeswoman Liz Jaeger said, “We continue to provide our guests with a variety of ticket offerings to meet their needs, while helping us to spread visitation, better manage demand and deliver a great experience.” To help manage the crowds, the resort adopted “demand” pricing in 2016, with lower prices on days when demand is lower and higher prices on weekends and holidays. An analysis by The Times showed that the new prices did not shorten attraction wait times.

In a recent interview with Barron's, Bob Iger said that he does not think about the price of churros when he visits the parks. Back in October, the price point of churros increased $1.75, from $4.50 to $6.25. This is nearly a 40% price increase for a product that is of no thought to the CEO of TWDC.

TWDC is no different from other Fortune 500 companies, such as Apple, Exxon Mobile, and Delta Airlines. Its actions should never be surprising because TWDC is a publicly traded conglomerate, constantly seeking to increase its bottom line.

Regarding the magic, visit the Walt Disney Family Museum, in San Francisco, CA, and read a few unauthorized texts by former Disney insiders. The magic died with Walt Disney. At the Walt Disney Family Museum, for example, there is an exhibit that speaks to Walt's love of benches and the need for them at Disneyland. There are recent quotes, from Disney executives, about benches being removed from the parks because guests should be purchasing food and beverage or merchandise, not sitting.

Not too impressed with DIS stock myself. Bad performer. They might want to be more concerned about their product and step away from the "pencil boys," as Walt Disney himself called accountants.

Edit: I am realizing that we do not own stock in DIS. This is interesting because we own stock in other companies whose products we love. But DIS has never attracted us.

 

[Chuck S]

Let us suppose that DVC never built another resort, and that we were limited to the existing 14 resorts until our contracts expire. I think the existing 14 resorts are pretty darned nice. I have stayed at my home resort of OKW almost exclusively for the last 27 years. I do want to try AK or Kidani, and I stayed at the Polynesian once. That's it! Will i ever stay at Riviera? Maybe once to try the gondola...but I could just as easily get a couple cash nights at POP for that purpose. Resale purchasers will still have 14 WDW resorts to choose from...just like ALL of us do, now. How is that "devaluing" resales? It isn't, it is only a selling gimmick for new direct sales. I doubt it would have any impact on my WDW or DVC stays in the future, and I think that would be true for most of us...given the problems booking at 7 months out for more popular resorts, it is doubtful a whole lot of members would be able to get into the newer resorts at 7 months anyway. I have greater issues with letting the newer resorts use the existing 14 resorts at 7 months. I think if they want to do this sort of thing, that they really SHOULD have made these new resorts into a completely separate DVC II type thing and not allowed ANY cross point usage with the 14 existing resorts. But as a direct OKW owner, I do see a small advantage...maybe...it will be easier for direct purchasers of the original resorts to book the newer resorts at 7 months, if we desire to do so. But I'll bet the point requirements will be crazy, so probably a moot point.

 

[ziravan]

thanks so much! It was AKV, I already own there 180 points and just had my offer accepted for 150 more... I thought super hard about BLT but having 11 month booking with all of my points and lower price per point etc. won out... still not sure about that decision but it was super hard to talk my dh even into letting me get more points!!! So, I am super happy and we will use them for a long time, my son is 10 loves disney and he will be 36 when they expire... then he can buy more if he wants !!

Ummm. AKV expires in 2057. If your son is 10 now, he’ll be 48 when they expire.

 

[Kim Gillihan]

Ummm. AKV expires in 2057. If your son is 10 now, he’ll be 48 when they expire.

LOL... so funny!! I thought 36 didn't sound right! I think I let him calculate!!

 

[jade1]

Since joining this board in 2012, when it comes to selecting a home resort, I have read countless posts by other contributors who have encouraged prospective buyers to "pay where they want to stay." What if Disney's Riviera Resort is truly a game changer, with lavishly furnished villas and desirable view categories? The resort will have direct access to Epcot and Disney's Hollywood Studios, via the Skyliner, and is within walking distance of Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort. Moreover, the rooftop restaurant will provide spectacular views of nighttime fireworks displays. Given its potential offerings, reserving the same villa at this resort, year after year, may be a phenomenal opportunity.

Esp if Riviera resales tank. Could be a great deal.

 

[emilymad]

As I have had a few days to digest all of this I am in the camp that I could see purchasing a resale Riviera contract if the price tanks. I think there is some price point where the risk would be worth it. Assuming we like the resort and assuming it could get past ROFR.

Mostly, I have been glad I have not added on over the years. We have a low amount of points which has worked for us. We need more points occasionally but we have substituted with cash stays at other Disney hotels. As we see more and more changes I want the flexibility to choose other vacation destinations.

 

[Woody412]

In a recent interview with Barron's, Bob Iger said that he does not think about the price of churros when he visits the parks. Back in October, the price point of churros increased $1.75, from $4.50 to $6.25. This is nearly a 40% price increase for a product that is of no thought to the CEO of TWDC.

A bit off topic I know, and I apologize. I just found this hysterical. Bob Iger hasn’t had to think about the price of anything for quite some time. I imagine his chamber pot is worth more than my car.

 

[jade1]

Let us suppose that DVC never built another resort, and that we were limited to the existing 14 resorts until our contracts expire. I think the existing 14 resorts are pretty darned nice. I have stayed at my home resort of OKW almost exclusively for the last 27 years. I do want to try AK or Kidani, and I stayed at the Polynesian once. That's it! Will i ever stay at Riviera? Maybe once to try the gondola...but I could just as easily get a couple cash nights at POP for that purpose. Resale purchasers will still have 14 WDW resorts to choose from...just like ALL of us do, now. How is that "devaluing" resales? It isn't, it is only a selling gimmick for new direct sales. I doubt it would have any impact on my WDW or DVC stays in the future, and I think that would be true for most of us...given the problems booking at 7 months out for more popular resorts, it is doubtful a whole lot of members would be able to get into the newer resorts at 7 months anyway. I have greater issues with letting the newer resorts use the existing 14 resorts at 7 months. I think if they want to do this sort of thing, that they really SHOULD have made these new resorts into a completely separate DVC II type thing and not allowed ANY cross point usage with the 14 existing resorts. But as a direct OKW owner, I do see a small advantage...maybe...it will be easier for direct purchasers of the original resorts to book the newer resorts at 7 months, if we desire to do so. But I'll bet the point requirements will be crazy, so probably a moot point.

Agreed, I made the same point 3 plus times earlier yesterday.

DVC Legacy should pretty much stay the same, and is the one to own at least most of our points at IMO.

DVC2 can be filler stays, or skipped completely.

So if they had simply "stopped" building more DVC Resorts after BLT/AKV/POLY/GF/CCV (which expire after 2060 and 2066), this would be the same result?

But that's the part I'm missing I guess. Without new these new resorts, what would the effect (new rule) be?

I get that. I'm saying/asking "IF" they had stopped building new DVC Resorts after CCV, none of the "new rules" would be relevant, or would they?

In other words, what affect do the "new rules" have on us old timers in the system currently?

That's what I was thinking. Not sure what the big deal is then.

As a matter of fact, building more Resorts it appears we can even use those if we want. Which makes our ownership even more impressive.

I remember reading discussions on here that DVC 2 was inevitable, and the older resorts would not be included. I think it started around BLT or AKV, and then with GF and POLY.

Still hasn't happened.



Eh not a concern here. No new Resorts will surpass BCV and BWV IMO, heck not even BLT, POLY or GFV, (and I will take WLV over Reflections any day). Location is the point IMO.

 

[kboo]

and is within walking distance of Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort.

See, THAT is going to be THE reason (of all the others you listed) that will make Riviera competitive.

 

[GeneralTso]

The level of shock and dismay is amusing to me.
Business is war. Disney will do anything to make a profit. It does not hold you and tell you it loves you at night. It's a business. Taking our money as easily as we are willing to give it up.

They want to smash the resale market, unless THEY control it.
They are making it a miserable experience to buy resale through anyone but them. They started messing with the perks a few years ago. Writing on the wall.

Lots of posts about "pricing out the middle class" let alone poor people. To that I say yes. That's exactly what is happening. Crowd control, people willing (and able) to basically pay anything for park tickets and annual passes and add on events.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it's the way it is the wave of the future. They do not care if people boycott or don't go anymore. Thousands behind them willing to do it.

 

[Woody412]

I think most are expressing dismay at the fact that Disney used to at least pretend to be about more than the bottom line. Yes they are a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize their shareholders’ profits, but to many they used to be much more than that. They’re pulling back the curtain a little more every year and exposing us to the cold, hard truth. Am I shocked, sadly no. Am I dismayed, a little bit.

 

[AdamsMum]

I think that we can safely say that Disney has now officially killed the magic with DVC and turned it into every other timeshare out there. From now on, the magic words should be "Buyer Beware".

I tend to agree with you, although I know it seems a bit dramatic. I first bought in 2007 then added on in 2008 so all my points are before "all the evil" happened. I liked that it was simple, everybody had the same rights, and it seemed to hold it's value. There was a warm and fuzzy feeling about it, everybody wins DVC and customer. I know perks come and go, but I was really disappointed when they took away free valet parking (BWV parking lot is a hike) and replaced it with free high speed internet, which they then proceeded to give to everyone on property. So much for membership enhancements. The change in who could trade out to RCI didn't really bother me, but I know some people felt it. Then they decided to create 2 membership levels, with new resales not having certain perks and not having the same membership card. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Now this change makes it complicated, and possibly my contracts won't hold their value as well, I'll have to wait and see. Seems like they keep pushing the envelope to see how far they can go. Plain fact is though, most new buyers have no idea what they are buying.

DVC has always been presented as not a traditional timeshare, and that's what I've told anyone who inquired with me, and I highly recommended purchasing if the circumstances fit. Now the shine is wearing off, woe is me. Maybe I'm unrealistic, but this was always sold as "magical", that's what I bought. If I wanted reality, I'd stay home.

 

[Madame]

before "all the evil" happened

I know this phrase from somewhere, like a book or something. It’s on the tip of my tongue. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo right?!?

 

[AdamsMum]

I know this phrase from somewhere, like a book or something. It’s on the tip of my tongue. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo right?!?

Yup. One of my favourite books ever!

 

[Madame]

Yup. One of my favourite books ever!

Mine too!

 

[Brian Noble]

Disney has now officially killed the magic with DVC and turned it into every other timeshare out there.

I think this happened on 12/20/91. It just wasn't as obvious.

 

[Chuck S]

I think most are expressing dismay at the fact that Disney used to at least pretend to be about more than the bottom line. Yes they are a publicly traded company with a duty to maximize their shareholders’ profits, but to many they used to be much more than that. They’re pulling back the curtain a little more every year and exposing us to the cold, hard truth. Am I shocked, sadly no. Am I dismayed, a little bit.

But remember, Eisner, at least tried to theme resorts and buildings, and the Disney Decade of the 1990s? Why was he kicked out? Not because he "lost the magic" as Roy E. Disney tried to say. Mutual funds and investment people didn't care anything about that...they got rid of him because he was spending money and they were complaining because the company wasn't a growth stock and maximizing profit. In modern wall street, it is all about profit. profit, profit. The company stock was reclassified as a growth stock under Eiger, and has had huge stock price gains. Sadly, businesses doing business the old way of customer service, reliability and friendliness can not survive in this day and age.

 

[jsand99]

The level of shock and dismay is amusing to me.
Business is war. Disney will do anything to make a profit. It does not hold you and tell you it loves you at night. It's a business. Taking our money as easily as we are willing to give it up.

They want to smash the resale market, unless THEY control it.
They are making it a miserable experience to buy resale through anyone but them. They started messing with the perks a few years ago. Writing on the wall.

Lots of posts about "pricing out the middle class" let alone poor people. To that I say yes. That's exactly what is happening. Crowd control, people willing (and able) to basically pay anything for park tickets and annual passes and add on events.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it's the way it is the wave of the future. They do not care if people boycott or don't go anymore. Thousands behind them willing to do it.

I agree that Disney seems to be pricing out the middle class but wouldn't that be pricing out the majority of their guests? Wouldn't a lot of DVC owners also be part of the "middle class"?

 

[CarolMN]

I agree that Disney seems to be pricing out the middle class but wouldn't that be pricing out the majority of their guests? Wouldn't a lot of DVC owners also be part of the "middle class"?

Don't think it matters. The parks are full and revenues are up. It's very possible that the "middle class" isn't their target market. Sometimes, you can make more money with fewer customers.

I've read posts from more than one poster on the DIS, that said they would be willing to pay more for less crowding.

 

[Chuck S]

Don't think it matters. The parks are full and revenues are up. It's very possible that the "middle class" isn't their target market. Sometimes, you can make more money with fewer customers.

I've read posts from more than one poster on the DIS, that said they would be willing to pay more for less crowding.

Yep, I'm here now. The ME bus from the airport to OKW, SSR and POR was full, the only vacant seats were the seats reserved for special needs behind the driver. That is the first time I have ever been on a full ME bus on that route. Marathon Weekend, which I forgot about when I booked, is alive and well.