It's a bummer when you want to book a not super last minute trip and no availability.

[keishashadow]

On the contrary. I knew exactly what I was buying: a timeshare with a Fall booking problem and a management team with the exclusive right to make changes in its interest and a history (weekend reallocation) of doing so.

I knew those things before I bought. It's why I own at BCV (the ability to book a Fall Frenzy resort and also to enjoy it (SAB) if that booking pattern changes). And. A fixed week Poly in early Nov (Instead of first 2 wks of Dec if I were only thinking about present day booking priorities) that would allow me to enjoy Halloween and Christmas theming independent of when/if (when) DVC reallocates.

DVC is going to make changes in its own interests. That's why I'm confident a reallocation is coming. My guess is when Poly sells out because I think they'll make big changes there as well. So. 2 yrs from now.

Sooner. They'll want changes to be old news before VWL2 goes on sell. 2018 charts will be announced in a few months. That's probably too soon. 2019 charts announced in Dec 2017 would be my guess.

So you own @ BCV to book in the fall but think a fixed week would work beter for you...I'm confused.

Are you saying you've been unable to secure BCV @ 11 months in the fall and think a fixed week to straddle the parties would work bettter for you?

Not sure there is a large market for fixed week based upon so many owning via original system but who knows.

 

[ziravan]

I believe the complainers are those that try to book inside the 7 month window. I have never had any problems booking 9-11 months out for any time of year at my home resorts. And that goes bank to June 1993. If you can't plan ahead, you may not get what you want, that was made clear when I purchased. Maybe you should have bought a fixed week or else where. I'm sorry so many didn't understand the 11 month and 7 month windows.

But why should new owners believe that booking within the 7 month window is contrary to the best use of the program?

Especially since that very thing is a chief selling point.

And this, btw, is why I believe DVC will reallocate: when a 3 minute Internet search of DVC booking patterns reveals extreme difficulty in booking at or it inside 7 months (during Fall Frenzy), it undercuts sells. The PP discussing family backing out after buying but not being able to book Fall Frenzy is on point.

You suggest potential DVC owners should understand that planning to book inside 7 months is a recipe for failure. DVD pushes that 7 month booking ability as a chief selling point:

Ultimately, DVD will attempt to maintain its sales presentation as at least a plausible reality. To do that, they will eventually move to make booking ability and actual availability more aligned.

 

[lovin'fl]

owner since 2006 and I have ALWAYS known that trying for a booking at 7 month window is hit or miss. DVC has always been clear that there are no guarantees for short notice trips and that timeshares aren't really for the last minute traveler. That's the number 1 negative that comes up when folks are trying to decide if they should buy DVC...response #1 is always- not if you can't plan in advance.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I don't know that it was ever promised that there will be availability if you try to book after 7 months. I've been basically unable to book a studio at most resorts for the first week in December (at or after the 7 month mark) for quite a few years, so I've learned to book home resorts for that prior to 7 months. It did not occur to me to complain because I was promised a booking at the resort of my choice after the 7 month window, since I wasn't.

But, I can see the issue with sales - don't expect to book in the Epcot area for October/November if you're booking after 7 months won't sell a lot of points to someone who is looking to stay in the Epcot area in October/November.

 

[ziravan]

I suspect the fixed-week contract does include some language that describes how this works. There are several options. For example, Wyndham's converted fixed weeks *can* be reallocated, so the Wyndham points I "own" can go up or down if the underlying week's point requirements go up or down. The fees for a converted fixed week are the MFs on the underlying week---and that is fixed independent of a reallocation---plus a variable amount based on the number of points owned---and that would change with a reallocation.

So, yes, I could be charged more (or less) if my week went up (or down) in the points required to book it. And, I knew this before I bought it (resale) because the prior owner supplied the conversion contract he executed with Wyndham as part of the process.

My fixed week contract explicitly states that no matter what reallocations take place, I'm entitled to week 44 lake view booked each year at 12 months automatically OR 168 points.

Reallocations won't affect fixed weeks unless I opt out of the fixed week. The actual week and view are contractual.

This is why we bought. I can think of 4 different reallocations that would negatively affect the week we own if it weren't fixed: 1. General reallocation of Fall making it more expensive. 2. General reallocation of studios making them more expensive. (whether a system wide reallocation or a Poly specific reallocation to make bungalows cheaper.) 3. Changing Moorea ground floor from Lake View to standard making Lake Views more rare. 4. A general reorganization of studio views at Poly taking into account parking lot vs pool/garden views and restructuring point costs among all studios (I ran the numbers on that in a thread awhile back).

The fixed week is protected against any of those reallocations. If we opt out, the 168 points will spend just like any other post reallocation points.

 

[ziravan]

So you own @ BCV to book in the fall but think a fixed week would work beter for you...I'm confused.

Are you saying you've been unable to secure BCV @ 11 months in the fall and think a fixed week to straddle the parties would work bettter for you?

Not sure there is a large market for fixed week based upon so many owning via original system but who knows.

We like to come 3 times a year and our current contracts nicely accommodate those times: Spring at BCV (SAB), F&W, and Christmas.

We have enough BCV points for 2 studio weeks (250) and enough Poly for 1 week (168).

So. Poly fixed for F&W gives us an EPCOT monorail resort if needed, and BCV gives us the back door. We have the flexibility to change up where we stay for F&W and Christmas each year. We like that flexibility immensely. Currently, we are using BCV for F&W and opting out of fixed week to use Poly at Christmas.

But. Christmas at BCV is very charming, too. (And so is AKV savanna where we don't need to own to usually make work).

We designed our points to be flexible today and for our best guesses for the future. IF DVC reallocates, I don't believe it'll make much of a dent in Fall Frenzy, it'll just make it more expensive.

I think BillPA does have a point. A reallocation will be a negative for current owners booking within windows for Fall. In fact, I would oppose such a reallocation if I had a vote, which I don't.

That said, we are hedged any way. Poly and BCV are a pretty great combination to have.

One more thing about fixed weeks. DVC currently has a discount for points through Oct that effectively prices them under $160/point. Fixed weeks are excluded so there's no surprise that no fixed weeks have been sold in months. DVC used to ignore fixed weeks. Now, they're actively discouraging them. Since most fixed weeks sold are Fall Frenzy weeks, DVC actively discouraging their sale might also be an insight into their future plans for Fall booking. Food for thought.

 

[ziravan]

I don't know that it was ever promised that there will be availability if you try to book after 7 months. I've been basically unable to book a studio at most resorts for the first week in December (at or after the 7 month mark) for quite a few years, so I've learned to book home resorts for that prior to 7 months. It did not occur to me to complain because I was promised a booking at the resort of my choice after the 7 month window, since I wasn't.

But, I can see the issue with sales - don't expect to book in the Epcot area for October/November if you're booking after 7 months won't sell a lot of points to someone who is looking to stay in the Epcot area in October/November.

If I were a guide, I'd make a very big deal out of the fact that a 2 minute walk to the EPCOT monorail makes Poly a de facto EPCOT F&W resort.

 

[keishashadow]

We like to come 3 times a year and our current contracts nicely accommodate those times: Spring at BCV (SAB), F&W, and Christmas.

We have enough BCV points for 2 studio weeks (250) and enough Poly for 1 week (168).

So. Poly fixed for F&W gives us an EPCOT monorail resort if needed, and BCV gives us the back door. We have the flexibility to change up where we stay for F&W and Christmas each year. We like that flexibility immensely. Currently, we are using BCV for F&W and opting out of fixed week to use Poly at Christmas.

But. Christmas at BCV is very charming, too. (And so is AKV savanna where we don't need to own to usually make work).

We designed our points to be flexible today and for our best guesses for the future. IF DVC reallocates, I don't believe it'll make much of a dent in Fall Frenzy, it'll just make it more expensive.

I think BillPA does have a point. A reallocation will be a negative for current owners booking within windows for Fall. In fact, I would oppose such a reallocation if I had a vote, which I don't.

That said, we are hedged any way. Poly and BCV are a pretty great combination to have.

One more thing about fixed weeks. DVC currently has a discount for points through Oct that effectively prices them under $160/point. Fixed weeks are excluded so there's no surprise that no fixed weeks have been sold in months. DVC used to ignore fixed weeks. Now, they're actively discouraging them. Since most fixed weeks sold are Fall Frenzy weeks, DVC actively discouraging their sale might also be an insight into their future plans for Fall booking. Food for thought.

BWV we bought expressly for fw
If they reallocated points we'd likely just book thru CRO or offsite and bAnk points to make it work. Wouldn't skip that time frame as our activities at universal are just as important to us during the trip that's usually 10 to 15 days

Ak we've been booking for late spring trip but need the value accommodations to cover perhaps they'll lower the points in May and early June if they'd up the fall's.

Jmho not holding my breath but if they shake up the point allocation charts will go with the flow. Don't plan on adding on at this stage of ownership

 

[Tigger1]

They are doing a lot of refurbishments lately. I think that has an impact.

 

[Dean]

Writings on the wall. This is but one of a bunch of threads complaining about Fall availability.

It's a highly persistent and highly visible complaint.

Both of my purchases were directly influenced by maximizing Fall booking. The more Fall Frenzy influences purchase the more likely DVC moves to moderate it.

They have an obligation to make changes in the best interests of owners. They actually will make changes to protect their bottom line. Both priorities seem to be converging.

Perception is reality and Fall Frenzy is giving the perception that DVC is impossible to book.

Personally I agree that some type of reallocations either in season or between studios/1BR is likely to happen at some time and possibly both. I don't agree that there's any nefarious component to it though.

My POS from 1993 has not such statement. And I thought Disney was a class act, shame on me. They make changes to the original contract without any approval from the owners. BEWARE any new buyer, you will NOT have what you paid for very long!!!

As noted, it's always been somewhere. It's in the multi site POs now and the wording is such that they really don't have a choice once they have enough info to know it's real and significant. It is a judgement call though.

I would post a copy if I had an electronic copy. Now that DVD sells fixed weeks are they going to collect more money from those that purchased a fixed week if points go up, or refund if they go down? I don't think so. But they do as they please not always what the owners want. I believe the complainers are those that try to book inside the 7 month window. I have never had any problems booking 9-11 months out for any time of year at my home resorts. And that goes bank to June 1993. If you can't plan ahead, you may not get what you want, that was made clear when I purchased. Maybe you should have bought a fixed week or else where. I'm sorry so many didn't understand the 11 month and 7 month windows.

I haven't seen the wording but in effect, DVC runs 2 parallel timeshares systems now with a crossover option. The fixed weeks aren't counted on the points side unless the owner elects to take points instead. At that point the fixed week becomes open for any points member to reserve.

Personally I feel (and have posted several times over the years) that DVC has been overly available on shorter notice compared to other timeshares. I think part of that is that member have been slow to catch up on the need to do so and part is because it's Orlando and the demand is fairly broad throughout the year. I use Marriott and Bluegreen routinely and there are a number of options with both that you have to reserve day 1 at the reservation window to have any chance and even then for many only those that are high up in the VIP system have any chance due to the structure of their waitlist system.

 

[Deb & Bill]

If I were a guide, I'd make a very big deal out of the fact that a 2 minute walk to the EPCOT monorail makes Poly a de facto EPCOT F&W resort.

Using that same logic, the short bus ride from OKW to Epcot makes it a de facto Epcot F&W resort.

 

[Anal Annie]

We love to resort hop from trip to trip but always consider ourselves lucky if we're able to get what we want at another resort at 7 months and extra lucky if we're booking less than 7 months - especially during peak times. We booked our home resort of SSR for the first week of next January (partially during the marathon) at 9 months out and I kept watching the availablity dwindle & dwindle so that by 7 months all resorts were booked for studios for 2 or 3 of our nights during the marathon dates. There was nowhere to switch to. Sure, I could've waitlisted but didn't really need the hassle or stress. SSR is our home and we like it OK. AKV would have been nice as that's our sons fav but it is what it is. It would've only saved 2 points for a std. view there (we're usually pretty stingy with how we stretch our points). Happy that I booked EARLY.

Then in April at 5 1/2 months out DH and I decided to book a few nights in Sept. for F&W. Once again, we were in points saving mode and by the time we booked availability was already picked over for studios. Since we stayed at SSR last January and are going again NEXT January we wanted a diff. resort. Ended up booking OKW as it was the cheapest - but the HH category was already gone. IIRC the lower categories were already gone at AKV as well as the std view at BWV. If there had been a lower cat available at AKV I think I would have booked that instead. In mid-July we decided to try to add on a 5th night to our Sept. trip. Of course nothing was available at OKW so I just hawked the site for a few days until I lucked into the night we needed so we added it on - I felt extra super lucky that at 2 months out we were able to snag this ONE night. This is just for a non-special average Joe week in Sept. I mean it's right after F&W starts but there's no holidays or anything special going on. It's just a busy time. I would never be surprised to look at 2 or 3 months out and NOT be able to book what we wanted. I would be MORE surprised if even half of what we wanted WAS available. And if under 7 months not so picky about where we stayed.

I don't know how the OP is considering this lack of availability the "new downside to owning DVC" to not be able to book a popular week with lots going on at just 3 months out. I would think something's wrong if it WAS wide open...

 

[ziravan]

Using that same logic, the short bus ride from OKW to Epcot makes it a de facto Epcot F&W resort.

Yeah but the monorail is sexier.

It's practically an E-ticket ride all by itself (or so hints the WDW video currently hitting up my Twitter feed).

 

[Deb & Bill]

Yeah but the monorail is sexier.

It's practically an E-ticket ride all by itself (or so hints the WDW video currently hitting up my Twitter feed).

So I take it you've never ridden the bus from OKW. It's a whole 'nuther world. Wahoooo!

We saw a night space shuttle launch on the ride back from Epcot on Overpass Road. You won't see that on the monorail.

 

[keishashadow]

Yeah but the monorail is sexier.

It's practically an E-ticket ride all by itself (or so hints the WDW video currently hitting up my Twitter feed).

Lol sexy is last term that crosses my mind when stuffed cheek to cheek on the monorail

 

[wdrl]

My POS from 1993 has not such statement. And I thought Disney was a class act, shame on me. They make changes to the original contract without any approval from the owners. BEWARE any new buyer, you will NOT have what you paid for very long!!!

I didn't try to find an Old Key West Master Declaration filed in 1993, but the language in question is included in an earlier version of the Old Key West Master Declaration that was recorded on January 6, 1992. DVC's authority to modify point charts is spelled out in Exhibit I, section 2.3.

 

[crisi]

Lol sexy is last term that crosses my mind when stuffed cheek to cheek on the monorail

Or stuck on it for half an hour listening to the recording that the train in front of you is having technical difficulties.

 

[MrInfinity]

But why should new owners believe that booking within the 7 month window is contrary to the best use of the program? Especially since that very thing is a chief selling point.

We're new owners... Or... hoping to be, pending the ROFR monkeys.

Who is out there saying they expect to be able to book wherever, w/in 7 mo? I never got that, nor expect that. We bought where we want to stay. If we choose somewhere else, I don't expect availability at the BC during F&W at 6 mo. It's not sold that way. It's sold that you can book anywhere, but it's also clear that the 11 mo people get first dibbs and popular times will be taken. Salespeople will play up that it's an option and not emphasize the restrictions. They're trained to sell, break down your objections, and get your signature. Hopefully if you're buying a timeshare you can see thru their pitch in a Peloponnesian minute and know you're not going to get anything that isn't in the contract. If they say "you can book at the Beach Club" and you ask... "so you can guarantee me I can book the Beach Club during F&W?" they will turn that around and tell you about how they can't guarantee rooms, and it's first come first serve, etc. They'll skate around the obvious fact that the 11-mo owners will already have came first and booked them without telling you "no" because a buyer will latch onto that word as a reason not to buy. Dead deal.

 

[tjkraz]

Salespeople will play up that it's an option and not emphasize the restrictions. They're trained to sell, break down your objections, and get your signature. Hopefully if you're buying a timeshare you can see thru their pitch in a Peloponnesian minute and know you're not going to get anything that isn't in the contract.

"But...but...but...It's Disney! I expect them to be different!"

Sarcasm aside, a lot of the availability complaints come from long-time members who have seen trends change over the years. That point is undeniable...over 25 years, member booking patterns have absolutely changed. In numerous ways.

DVC has the power to manage this thru the point charts; increase the costs of seasons/villas which are now in extremely high demand and lower costs for the less popular dates and rooms. But many owners would also be disappointed (outraged) to find that their preferred villa and/or dates now comes at a higher cost.

Pick your poison.

 

[ziravan]

We're new owners... Or... hoping to be, pending the ROFR monkeys.

Who is out there saying they expect to be able to book wherever, w/in 7 mo? I never got that, nor expect that. We bought where we want to stay. If we choose somewhere else, I don't expect availability at the BC during F&W at 6 mo. It's not sold that way. It's sold that you can book anywhere, but it's also clear that the 11 mo people get first dibbs and popular times will be taken. Salespeople will play up that it's an option and not emphasize the restrictions. They're trained to sell, break down your objections, and get your signature. Hopefully if you're buying a timeshare you can see thru their pitch in a Peloponnesian minute and know you're not going to get anything that isn't in the contract. If they say "you can book at the Beach Club" and you ask... "so you can guarantee me I can book the Beach Club during F&W?" they will turn that around and tell you about how they can't guarantee rooms, and it's first come first serve, etc. They'll skate around the obvious fact that the 11-mo owners will already have came first and booked them without telling you "no" because a buyer will latch onto that word as a reason not to buy. Dead deal.

You're waiting for ROFR which means you bought resale. That also means you did some research.

Most new buyers hearing a sales pitch will have never heard any variant of "buy where you want to stay".

Buy high on pixie dust with a sales person who wants to sell Poly and OF COURSE you can stay in a bunch of places, that's why there's the 7 month window.

I'm not saying people are being told they can book 3 weeks out. But the 7 month window is a strong selling point - and it's far from a sure thing these days, especially during Fall Frenzy.

I doubt very many guides are out there saying, "Honestly, it's practically impossible to book at 7 months from mid-Sept to mid-Jan these days."