It was a miracle!

[NewJersey]

Why has this turned into a debate? I mean seriously, the OP was happy about getting her papers; she believed through prayer God helped her find them. End of story.

Either post about being happy she found them or giving a similar story, or move on through and refrain from hijacking this into something it wasn't meant to be.

I am no 'fan' of organized religion or anyone who tries to convert me from being spiritual to one who follows a religion and I think people fan vouch based on my posts in the past. But this thread has nothing to do with conversion or anything like it. Why must everything here on the DIS be thrown into a debate?

 

[piglet too]

I'm not really religious. I don't know if the OP just taking the time to pray made her mind quiet enough to help her think of where to look, or if God inspired her to look where she did, or if she just got lucky and looked in the right spot. What I do know is that there is more to this World than what man can understand, and far be it for me to say with certainty "yes it was prayer" or "no it was luck". All we can say for sure is that there is no way for us to surely know!

I don't think God says "OK, I'll lead you to the papers." I just don't think He works that way. But I do think if you pray for something like that, He might send you grace, or patience, or strength - something that allows you to quiet your mind, as someone else said, or to be calm enough to look with less stress-filled eyes. That's when I think a prayer can work in a situation like this.

I don't believe God has anything to do with children being abused, or babies dying, etc. I don't think a "Please God, save my baby" prayer will be answered. I do think praying for a surgeon to have the strength to perform a life-saving operation is the way God works. I think you can "load the deck", so to speak, with prayers for those types of qualities. But whether an operation is successful, or a medicine works in time, isn't up to God - those are human actions based in science and having to do with the odds of any particular intervention working to halt a medical outcome.

I do think religion is so deeply personal - it is different for every person. I believe in something that comforts and guides me - it might not be anything that appeals to anyone else. I would never fault anyone for believing differently than I do. I do think it's sad that people would shut themselves off from the possible comfort of a set of religious beliefs because they perceived that God didn't answer their prayers. Maybe He had nothing to do with the situation they prayed about, but He could send grace and healing to comfort afterward.

No real insight here from me, just ramblings....

Add me to the "not very religious" group. Anyone who knows me here, knows that I usually reply to requests for prayers with "good thoughts" instead.

That said, I want to respond to what I bolded above. When my DS almost drowned last summer, I did pray. Once he was brought back with CPR, and I was sitting in the ambulance, I prayed to God to give him strength to fight through this. I asked for the strength to get through it myself. I asked for God to help the paramedics to help my son. I did say "please God, please do not take my baby from me." But then I added the rest of the prayer that I have listed.

My son is OK now. Did God answer my prayers?? I don't know. But I do know that when the one paramedic told me I could get in the back with my son, a calm came over me. I was still shaking and a wreck, but I was able to internalize it so my son would not see it. I asked God for strength, and I found it.

There were Angels with us that day, I have no doubt. Why do bad things happen to others? Again, I don't know. I think to debate that God can not give you strength and calm, just because there are bad things happening, is wrong. Just let it be. No one here is saying that you have to believe, it is not wrong to do so. It is also not wrong to NOT believe. We are each our own persons, with a inner fire that does not have to make sense to anyone else.

 

[Narnian_Princess]

I'm so glad you found your papers, auntpolly!

I believe that God works little miracles every day; I've had "little insignificant" miracles happen to me, though they were a big deal at the time. One time I tried contacts, and they scratched my eye. It hurt a lot and I was scared. I prayed, and 10 minutes later I noticed my eye didn't hurt anymore, and I looked and the scratches were gone. One time when my baby brother was 5 we were at a winter resort "inner tubing" on a snow track. He was so little he didn't like to go all the way to the top, so he would get in about halfway down. He was standing, getting in his inner tube when these two big teenagers shoved off the top of the track and were barrelling right toward him. If he had been hit I have no doubt he would have been seriously hurt or even killed, but a man that wasn't there before (and wasn't there after) grabbed him and set him off the track. Sure they were "insignificant" miracles, but miracles all the same.

As to why God doesn't save so many people, maybe it's because allowing such things to happen would serve a greater purpose. That's the thing; we don't know the big picture. We only see our own little world in our own little time. Why did God allow the Holocaust to happen, so many people to die? Maybe so we could see the horrors of discrimination and STAY AWAY from it. To make the idea of discrimination so distasteful. That's one option to believe, but the Bible says that Satan controlls the material realm, and he tries to control the spiritual realm. If we believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, we defeat Satan in our own spirits, but we can't control his influence in the material world around us. God can intervene, but we have to look at our reasons; are they selfish? If we don't get our requests, it could be because we "asked amiss".

Sorry for the rambling, just my humble opinion.

 

[auntpolly]

Why has this turned into a debate?

I guess for the same reason refillable cups turns into a debate every time!! LOL

I guess if we can find away to fight about whether or not it's a mortal sin to lie about your kid's age to get a cheaper park pass, I shouldn't have been surprised that something much more serious would cause a debate.

I guess it's just something to think about, if nothing else. Food for thought.

For those of you who have suffered great losses, like the loss of a child, I would never presume to tell you how to feel about this. But if you have a priest or minister that you respect, I don't think it would hurt to talk to them if you still have questions. God bless you. I've suffered grief, but I can't even imagine what it would be like to lose a child.

(OT - this reminds me of the time I started a fight by saying "God bless you" to someone. I got people yelling at me that "only God can bless people - I shouldn't be "ordering" him to do it"! Sometimes I just have that foot in mouth disease!!!!!!!)

 

[Aisling]

If finding those papers helped you to feel better about God's presence in your life, then maybe that was the message. Not the papers themselves, but the fact that God was there for you.

This is EXACTLY how I feel.

My faith tells me that everyone's experience with God is ultimately personal, meaning no one can ever figure out why He "answers" seemilngly small prayers and "doesn't answer" those who pray for their sick baby to live. I believe the purpose of prayer is not for God to give us what we want, but to make us slow down and talk to Him so that we can KNOW that He is here all the time. That's the miracle, that's where the power is, that God is here and we're all a part of Him. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say, but just remember that God doesn't work using a human brain like we have, He's outside the box, and until you can see the WHOLE picture AT THE SAME TIME, as God does, we can never understand the whys of His actions. He just wants us to know He's here, in our joy and in our pain. When we become spirit again, and become free of our flesh and blood brain, then we're really be able to understand because we'll be our true selves, which is the image of God.

I always tell my kids there's no such thing as a small miracle. All miracles are grand. And even those who go through tragedy do experience God's miracles, the miracle of Himself.

 

[Narnian_Princess]

This is EXACTLY how I feel.

My faith tells me that everyone's experience with God is ultimately personal, meaning no one can ever figure out why He "answers" seemilngly small prayers and "doesn't answer" those who pray for their sick baby to live. I believe the purpose of prayer is not for God to give us what we want, but to make us slow down and talk to Him so that we can KNOW that He is here all the time. That's the miracle, that's where the power is, that God is here and we're all a part of Him. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say, but just remember that God doesn't work using a human brain like we have, He's outside the box, and until you can see the WHOLE picture AT THE SAME TIME, as God does, we can never understand the whys of His actions. He just wants us to know He's here, in our joy and in our pain. When we become spirit again, and become free of our flesh and blood brain, then we're really be able to understand because we'll be our true selves, which is the image of God.

I always tell my kids there's no such thing as a small miracle. All miracles are grand. And even those who go through tragedy do experience God's miracles, the miracle of Himself.

How did you do that? You summed up my beliefs exactly.

 

[Keli]

I believe God answers prayer. All kinds of prayers. Big ones, little ones, about truly important things, about things that don't matter as much when you look at the big picture.
Now the real question for me is the same one Cool-Beans faces as well as so many other folks. WHY are some prayers answered and some either aren't or are answered negatively (looks remarkably similar from this side of the prayer ) And here's my big answer. It's the same as Aunt Polly's. I don't know.
I do believe that the closer you draw to God the more you understand so I'm reaching and searching by prayer and reading the Bible.

 

[ilovepcot]

I just wanted to say this to you AUNTPOLLY...you certainly handle yourself with grace and dignity.

 

[Gurgi]

OK, so little kids get raped and murdered. 8 million Jews died during the Holocaust, thousands of Americans were murdered in 2001.

God was prayed to, "Please, Lord, don't let my child/husband/mommy be one of the people left in the building when it collapsed. Please let them be alive and come home to me." Or, "Please, Lord, let us find our little girl. Or let her die quickly without suffering." But God didn't step in there. He lets the little girl be raped and buried alive.

What is so special about you that you received his grace and found your misplaced paperwork through divine intervention?

Wow, that's rude.

 

[Southern4sure]

I totally believe in prayer and I'd just like to share something that happened at work yesterday.

There were some very important papers. Very important. They weren't where they should have been. I looked through my mail and everyone else's mail a hundred times. Everyone else did the same. We were looking through the same stacks of paper over and over. I was sick. I can't go into detail, but it would have been as close to the end of the world as yesterday could get had they been lost.

While everyone else was on the brink of tears, I stole away for a few seconds and knelt by my desk and just asked God to help us.

I got up, walked back over to the area where everone was looking, shuffled a few papers, and there they were, the important papers.

Everyone was like, and then !!!

I said," I just prayed that God help us 2 seconds ago!" I could tell some people were but most of us were just thankful to God.

Sometimes it doesn't seem like God answers your prayer because it the help is different than you think it should be, but this time, it couldn't have come any closer to being obviously the hand of God if He had smacked us in the heads!!!

Any of you have any miracle stories?

Yep I have one. My husbad is recovering from a kidney transplant he had on March 8th. His only sibling was not a match but her husband wanted to be tested and he matched and 1 1/2 months later my dh has a new kidney. Because of this generous gift my husband did not have to go on dialysis and is doing well. The prognosis the drs have given are awesome.

I believe in miracles.

ETA: I pray everday my children will not be diagnosed with Polycystic Kidney Disease like their dad and which runs in the family. Medically I know they have a 50/50 chance of inheriting this disease but I pray they are skipped. Will God annswer my prayers? I hope so, if not I hope God answers in other ways of miracles like a transplant and etc.

 

[Liberty Belle]

An amazing story of finding a checkbook in, of all places, a purse.

You completely missed the point.

Why are so many people so rude and bitter on this post?

OP, glad you found your papers. That's happened to me, as well. I prayed for God's guidance in finding something and walked immediately to it with a new confidence and calm.

Yes, I also prayed years ago when I was being abused. It didn't immediately stop, but that doesn't stop me from being in God and the power of prayer. I can't know the grand scheme of things.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I don't think God says "OK, I'll lead you to the papers." I just don't think He works that way. But I do think if you pray for something like that, He might send you grace, or patience, or strength - something that allows you to quiet your mind, as someone else said, or to be calm enough to look with less stress-filled eyes. That's when I think a prayer can work in a situation like this.

I don't believe God has anything to do with children being abused, or babies dying, etc. I don't think a "Please God, save my baby" prayer will be answered. I do think praying for a surgeon to have the strength to perform a life-saving operation is the way God works. I think you can "load the deck", so to speak, with prayers for those types of qualities. But whether an operation is successful, or a medicine works in time, isn't up to God - those are human actions based in science and having to do with the odds of any particular intervention working to halt a medical outcome.

I do think religion is so deeply personal - it is different for every person. I believe in something that comforts and guides me - it might not be anything that appeals to anyone else. I would never fault anyone for believing differently than I do. I do think it's sad that people would shut themselves off from the possible comfort of a set of religious beliefs because they perceived that God didn't answer their prayers. Maybe He had nothing to do with the situation they prayed about, but He could send grace and healing to comfort afterward.

No real insight here from me, just ramblings....

That's mostly how I feel after I pray for guidance with something. I think God is helping me to use my strengths to do my best. I don't think He is stepping in and doing it for me.

 

[FayeW]

If any of us understood why God does anything, it wouldn't leave much room for faith, which is the cornerstone of Christianity.

It reminds me of an exhange I read in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that goes something like this:

"Prove to me you exist"

"I can't, because my existence relies on you believing I exist, without any proof. If I prove I exist, therefore I don't"

This is not a direct quote, but that's the jist of it.

I think we can all find events and circumstances in our lives that could be attributed to Divine intervention. I choose to believe that is the case. I know that once I became a mother I felt I had no choice but to believe there was something powerful protecting and watching over my children when I couldn't. Not having that faith in my life would have driven me insane. Like AuntPolly and some other posters, I try not to pray for specifics. I pray that God will help us make the right choices to keep our children safe and healthy. I mean, what if I prayed for a new house, and then one of the kids was hit by a car on that street??? That's what I mean. I pray for the right outcome, and to make the best decisions for our family. Sometimes that means I don't always get what I think I want, but I have faith that everything happens for a reason.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Wow, that's rude.

I think it is rude to suggest that God is working on your behalf, but not for others. God is helping you find papers, but not bothering with the mom who prayed while her daughter lay in the ground dying.

I really do not understand why people think that God is helping them, but not others. And I really would like one of these people, just once, to explain WHY they think God helped them out, but doesn't help other people.

I think that if God were going to step in, it wouldn't be to find papers. It would be to stop a child from being raped and buried alive. Or to end the suffering of very sick people, people in pain, being tortured, starving to death, etc.

It is a slap in the face to people who had to suffer through so much worse to say, "God helps me. He performs miracles for me." Especially when people say it is because of their great relationship with God. Like God loves them more.

But, nobody ever answers the question of why they think God steps in for them, and leaves children to be buried alive. Nor do they ever answer the question of why they would want to love a God who finds paperwork, but lets children be raped and murdered.

Aunt Polly, I'm sorry if you were offended. I wasn't trying to say you aren't special. Of course you are. I have asked a million times on the DIS why people believe that God singles them out to receive miracles and lets others suffer much more horrid fates. You've been on some of those threads.

And I promise that when someone gives me an answer that makes sense (not the old "I have a great relationship with Him"), I'll stop asking.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I think it is rude to suggest that God is working on your behalf, but not for others. God is helping you find papers, but not bothering with the mom who prayed while her daughter lay in the ground dying.

I really do not understand why people think that God is helping them, but not others. And I really would like one of these people, just once, to explain WHY they think God helped them out, but doesn't help other people.

I think that if God were going to step in, it wouldn't be to find papers. It would be to stop a child from being raped and buried alive. Or to end the suffering of very sick people, people in pain, being tortured, starving to death, etc.

It is a slap in the face to people who had to suffer through so much worse to say, "God helps me. He performs miracles for me." Especially when people say it is because of their great relationship with God. Like God loves them more.

But, nobody ever answers the question of why they think God steps in for them, and leaves children to be buried alive. Nor do they ever answer the question of why they would want to love a God who finds paperwork, but lets children be raped and murdered.

Aunt Polly, I'm sorry if you were offended. I wasn't trying to say you aren't special. Of course you are. I have asked a million times on the DIS why people believe that God singles them out to receive miracles and lets others suffer much more horrid fates. You've been on some of those threads.

And I promise that when someone gives me an answer that makes sense (not the old "I have a great relationship with Him"), I'll stop asking.

People have already told you they do not know why. They still have faith.

And just because God is not ending pain immediately does not mean he is not helping them.

 

[UrsulasMyHero]

I'm very glad you found your missing important papers.

When things go missing in my house, we simply say "Grandma, Put them back!" within a few minutes of saying that, we'll go back to where we think they should be, and look again. Most of the time, they're right there, under something... Did my mischevious grandma put them back? (she's been dead since 1984, and she's been cantankerous ever since ) Or did my guardian angel intervene? I'm not sure, but whatever helps... helps.

 

[John VN]

I think it is rude to suggest that God is working on your behalf, but not for others. God is helping you find papers, but not bothering with the mom who prayed while her daughter lay in the ground dying.

I really do not understand why people think that God is helping them, but not others. And I really would like one of these people, just once, to explain WHY they think God helped them out, but doesn't help other people.

I think that if God were going to step in, it wouldn't be to find papers. It would be to stop a child from being raped and buried alive. Or to end the suffering of very sick people, people in pain, being tortured, starving to death, etc.

It is a slap in the face to people who had to suffer through so much worse to say, "God helps me. He performs miracles for me." Especially when people say it is because of their great relationship with God. Like God loves them more.

But, nobody ever answers the question of why they think God steps in for them, and leaves children to be buried alive. Nor do they ever answer the question of why they would want to love a God who finds paperwork, but lets children be raped and murdered.

Aunt Polly, I'm sorry if you were offended. I wasn't trying to say you aren't special. Of course you are. I have asked a million times on the DIS why people believe that God singles them out to receive miracles and lets others suffer much more horrid fates. You've been on some of those threads.

And I promise that when someone gives me an answer that makes sense (not the old "I have a great relationship with Him"), I'll stop asking.

Cool-Beans... A few weeks ago I had a thread about prayer with many replies and similar questions.

This past week there was a report on the news about 3 children who died in a house fire and yet it is a miracle that some papers were found

Yesterday some lady lost control of her truck and crossed the center divider and her 7 year old child was killed in the resulting accident and yet we have a miracle with the papers

A few days ago a Dr. I know lost a daughter when the horse she was riding reared up and she fell off and the horse landed on her and yet the miracle papers

I think that some people need to have something in their life to give them a feeling that there is someone greater that is overlooking them and helping them out. They might not look within themselves for the strength or the answers because maybe they feel they are not capable of making the right decision. They call it faith because they need it to be so.

I have found over and over again that when I loose or misplace something and then I find it, it is always in the last place that I looked for it because that is where I put it.

Isn't it so convenient to say that when one prays the prayer will be answered with a yes or a no or the time is not right so just wait. A win, win, win situation. Same as "things happen for a reason". Again there is the need for it to be so.

Many need order in their life and religion helps to bring it to them.

Hope I made some sense because I did not mean to offend, just some thoughts.

 

[U2_rocks!]

Sometimes I think God just wants us to SLOW DOWN and CALM DOWN. Stopping in the middle of a frantic search to say a prayer is a way for us to slow down, calm down and maybe that alone helps us to find that missing item. Who knows? I'm thankful for any reminder God gives me.

ITA, except I don't even need God in the equation. All you need when searching for something is a break - when you start searching again it is with much fresher eyes. Sometimes when you've looked and looked in all the same places for something, your brain just stops registering everything it sees - that's when you miss stuff. That prayer was just a break from the search. IMO, anyway.

And I have an interesting non-religious story about finding things through delayed intuition. My mother washed a set of bedsheets at our house once, b/c her washing machine wasn't working (she lives next door). She hung them on our garage line to dry. They stayed there all night. The next morning one was missing. We searched all over the place; no-one could figure out where this one bedsheet had gone! Mum was upset because she liked those sheets! About a week later she got this pressing need to go into the semi-roofed and enclosed orchard of one of our neighbours. She didn't know why, but she went anyway. You have to go through a gate to get in, and there's a fence all the way around. It's somewhere you have to choose to go into - it isn't somewhere where you can just "pass by". Well, Mum went through the gate, and there on the ground was her sheet!

Mum is NOT religious in the least bit, she doesn't believe in the traditional God (though she does think there's something bigger than us out there), and she does not pray. Her brain just worked on the problem for a week, and after it had made all the connections, it realized that there was only one place she hadn't looked. Most people who had prayed about that would have been convinced that it was an answered prayer. Don't discount the ability of our own brains to figure things out subconsciously.

 

[JoyG]

Aunt Polly, I'm glad God helped you find your papers!!!

I believe that God has enough grace to help you find your papers AND take care of starving children.

He is omniscient and omnipotent...he can take care of the little things and the big things.

I pray for trivial things and for huge issues. I don't think that because one of my trivial prayers are answered that I am begrudging someone else's large prayer.

I have no power over what God answers and how He answers it. I'll just be grateful for the grace that is in my life and continue to pray for those who need help as well.

I've had trivial prayers answered...once I sat down in church and I thought to myself, "Lord, I could really use a piece of gum." Not 3 seconds later someone sat down behind me and offered me a piece of gum. That was trivial, but amazing (to me anyway).

I've also had huge prayers answered...like when my son had open heart surgery...God brought him through that.

I've also had prayers that have gone unanswered...I've had health problems for two years that I've been praying about and they haven't gone away.

I know the God who provided a piece of gum can take care of these major health issues for me but for whatever reason the answer to that prayer so far has been, "My grace is sufficient for you...my power is made perfect in your weakness" Meaning...lean on Him, he'll get me through it.

We don't know the answer to why bad things happen to good people, but believers can't let that blind us to the grace that God does bestow in our lives everyday.

 

[DisneyfeverTN]

I think that's great that you found your papers. I lost my keys in my house once. I looked everywhere - under couches, beds, in shelves and drawers, everywhere I could think of looking. Then I went into the garage and cleared my mind of all thoughts. I prayed (or meditated, whatever you want to call it) and asked that I be led to my keys. I walked inside the house and went directly to a toy box. My keys were mixed with the toys.

For those that might be interested, there are a couple of movies that I found very interesting and they helped me look at things in a totally new way. The movies are more like documentaries. Anyway, the movies help you see how we are all connected. They even mention scientific experiments that were conducted that show how our thoughts and actions can affect other things. The movies are The Secret and What the Bleep do we Know? Down the Rabbit Hole.