It Looks Like The 30-Day+ Back-to-Back Reservation Policy Changed

[bama_ed]

All,

I recently made an on-line WDW reservation for Fort Wilderness for 2022 and noticed some new language in it regarding 30-day max reservation window per reservation. There was new language added following it that had not been in past reservations "Disney reserves the right .... "

First, the most recent use of the OLD language that I have in my reservation confirmation history is for a reservation at the Fort I made in January 2020 for a stay in February 2021 (which I ultimately had to cancel).



Today I was looking at the NEW language in my most recent Fort reservation confirmation made in July 2021 for a stay in November 2022. It states the following now:



This is significant to folks who want to "snowbird" for months (or longer) on consecutive back-to-back reservations. Basically, if you stay at the Fort for the max length (30 days), you have to take another month "OFF" (28 days) away from the Fort before you can stay there again. And if they "catch" you trying to stay back-to-back on long reservations, they can kick you out.

Now we all know with Disney that some times the will to enforce rules and the like is not always there. But with the changes coming to cut expenses/increase revenue (shorter hours, paid parking, no free airport transfers, etc.) that the pressure will be on soon enough for management to enforce rules. They want short-term guests visiting, dining, ticketing, experiencing, eventing, souveniring, all at a rapid pace during their stay while they spend-spend-spend and then going home. Then they will be replaced by the next guest who will do the same. Wash-Rinse-Repeat. They don't want the squatter who ties up a campsite for 4 months during the winter with an Annual Pass for the Parks and eats at a Disney restaurant once a week. Nope - that campsite is a "Profit Center" and they have to generate as much revenue out of it as they can during the stay. So bid farewell to the dream of a slow, lazy, long, relaxed stay - that don't cut it no more.

I don't know when the change was actually made but at some point in the last year and a half (Jan20 to Jul21), it was put in. I haven't really noodled around in my head what the other impacts might be but what do you folks see this decision affecting?

How would they check/find this? (This is Disney IT we would be talking about, remember).

I like how in the new language they SPECIFICALLY call out campground guests as being affected by this new language as well as hotel guests (but I'm not aware of too many hotel guests that stay for 30+ on back-to-backs).

This change doesn't affect me but it is a change for some Fort guests. Wonder where it will go?

Bama Ed

PS - notice they have put some thought into this. The first 30 days and be on one reservation "or multiple reservations".

PPS - don't Florida state parks have a 14-day ON, 14-day OFF policy at the same state park?

 

[KalamityJane]

All,

I recently made an on-line WDW reservation for Fort Wilderness for 2022 and noticed some new language in it regarding 30-day max reservation window per reservation. There was new language added following it that had not been in past reservations "Disney reserves the right .... "

First, the most recent use of the OLD language that I have in my reservation confirmation history is for a reservation at the Fort I made in January 2020 for a stay in February 2021 (which I ultimately had to cancel).

View attachment 599012

Today I was looking at the NEW language in my most recent Fort reservation confirmation made in July 2021 for a stay in November 2022. It states the following now:

View attachment 599017

This is significant to folks who want to "snowbird" for months (or longer) on consecutive back-to-back reservations. Basically, if you stay at the Fort for the max length (30 days), you have to take another month "OFF" (28 days) away from the Fort before you can stay there again. And if they "catch" you trying to stay back-to-back on long reservations, they can kick you out.

Now we all know with Disney that some times the will to enforce rules and the like is not always there. But with the changes coming to cut expenses/increase revenue (shorter hours, paid parking, no free airport transfers, etc.) that the pressure will be on soon enough for management to enforce rules. They want short-term guests visiting, dining, ticketing, experiencing, eventing, souveniring, all at a rapid pace during their stay while they spend-spend-spend and then going home. Then they will be replaced by the next guest who will do the same. Wash-Rinse-Repeat. They don't want the squatter who ties up a campsite for 4 months during the winter with an Annual Pass for the Parks and eats at a Disney restaurant once a week. Nope - that campsite is a "Profit Center" and they have to generate as much revenue out of it as they can during the stay. So bid farewell to the dream of a slow, lazy, long, relaxed stay - that don't cut it no more.

I don't know when the change was actually made but at some point in the last year and a half (Jan20 to Jul21), it was put in. I haven't really noodled around in my head what the other impacts might be but what do you folks see this decision affecting?

How would they check/find this? (This is Disney IT we would be talking about, remember).

I like how in the new language they SPECIFICALLY call out campground guests as being affected by this new language as well as hotel guests (but I'm not aware of too many hotel guests that stay for 30+ on back-to-backs).

This change doesn't affect me but it is a change for some Fort guests. Wonder where it will go?

Bama Ed

PS - notice they have put some thought into this. The first 30 days and be on one reservation "or multiple reservations".

PPS - don't Florida state parks have a 14-day ON, 14-day OFF policy at the same state park?

I’ve been booking sites for Dec 21 and some for Jan 2022, I went back and checked and the Dec reservations all have the old wording (and as recently booked as a couple of days ago) and the Jan 22 ones have the new wording.

 

[2goofycampers]

Interesting. Good eye, Ed.

 

[Brett Wyman]

So much grey area in that clause. If you travel with your SO and they book the second 30 days is that fraudulent? It's another person legally booking the room/site. The same thing is done now for families who want multiple rooms during the same week and don't want to confuse their magic bands or MDE. It seems in regards to resort rooms it would probably be pretty easy to change to another resort at 30 days under your SO's name. Most likely no one would notice. But at the Fort of course the Fort CMs may notice the same rig on site for over 30 days.

 

[bama_ed]

I’ve been booking sites for Dec 21 and some for Jan 2022, I went back and checked and the Dec reservations all have the old wording (and as recently booked as a couple of days ago) and the Jan 22 ones have the new wording.

That's helpful, K-Jane. I didn't know if the new language was based on when the reservation was MADE or the dates of the actual stay. I have a stay (as I said) in Jan 2022 also but made almost a year back with old language. You have one made recently but also for Jan 2022 with the new language. So it must have been input going forward for stays beginning in 2022?

Thanks for the clarification.

Ed

 

[bama_ed]

So much grey area in that clause. If you travel with your SO and they book the second 30 days is that fraudulent? It's another person legally booking the room/site. The same thing is done now for families who want multiple rooms during the same week and don't want to confuse their magic bands or MDE. It seems in regards to resort rooms it would probably be pretty easy to change to another resort at 30 days under your SO's name. Most likely no one would notice. But at the Fort of course the Fort CMs may notice the same rig on site for over 30 days.

Well, Brett, the weasel words in the new language says Disney can "cancel any reservation or any guest" so technically booking stay #2 in the spouse's name may not comply. If Ed books a stay with DW and we are both listed in MDE and then DW books the next stay and we are both listed in MDE again, we both show up in MDE for the combined number of nights (consecutively).

And multiple families in multiple rooms aren't the same because they aren't in their rooms for over 30 nights (maybe collectively but not individually). Oh and another HOTEL resort on the 2nd stay is fine but this is not the issue: the new weasel words again refer to a "continuous stay for any guest at any single Disney Resort Hotel, including campground locations". So hotel folks can move to a different hotel on property but we don't have another campground on property to move to.

One thing you said, though, made me think: it wouldn't be enough to move from a Full campsite for the 1st 30 days to a Premium campsite for the next 30 days (physically changing sites) because I am still at the same resort. And it sure couldn't sit at the same site for another 30 days.

But I think that since SO MUCH INFO is being funneled through MDE with names, emails, Magic Bands, tickets/passes, fingerprints, credit card numbers, cell phone numbers, etc. that even Disney IT could eventually work out the bugs to catch Ed staying for 3 months (the pile of old P&J's takeout bags outside the trailer door would be a dead give-away). And the squirrels have no loyalty either - they would sell me out for a bag of peanuts in a New York minute.

Bama Ed

PS - I WISH Disney had moved on my idea of a 2nd campground across Vista Boulevard from the Fort called Camp Davy Crockett. Then we would have a second campground we could move to on the next 30-day stay. And then roll back across the road again to Fort Wilderness for the third 30-day stay (and so on).....

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Another cringe worthy moment brought to you by the post pandemic management at Disney. I read this after going over the new "Genie" program

As if price wasnt enough of a deterrent, now we have this policy dashing my hopes of a permanent address in the 1700 Loop.

I wonder if I could act like I was a noobie when I get to the Fort and ask for a longer ressie ? Not sure I could pull that off.

 

[PaHunter]

I am sure this is directed at the snowbird contingent exactly. As there gets to be more and more seeking warmer weather, more people buying campers after 2019, sites in Florida are harder to come by. And as was noted, Disney does not want to be a long term host to someone not spending money in the parks.
And yes @bama_ed most State Parks have a 14 day on 14 off policy that I know of, it is also to keep one from residing in the campground.

 

[Sjm9911]

Tbh, pice increases, new policies and what not, this may be it for a while for me. My upcomming trip is like double of my last one 2 years ago. And with the new fp thing and everything else , its not fun for me to plan and go. While this policy dosen't effect me, it makes me and my trip less special as i feel more and more like a walking dollar sign then a guest at a magical resort.

 

[garneska]

I know from previous visits, there are a lot of snowbirds that stay from Nov till Feb at least. We have not been lucky enough to do a 30 day stay but we have been to the fort in Nov and Jan or Dec and Jan. In those cases i have seen a few rigs that are there the entire time.

 

[team bradfield]

we are booked for March 2022, 30 days total

 

[bama_ed]

we are booked for March 2022, 30 days total

Does your reservation have the new or old 30-day language buried in it, @team bradfield? Depends on when it was made maybe.

I've always thought that a 30 day stay is a big number. The biggest park ticket US folks can purchase is a 10-day which has to be used in 14 days total. Guess it depends on how much down time you have at the start of your visit before you activate your ticket with its first day's use. Or activate the ticket early in the stay and then relax once the 14 days pass.

The closer you get to 30 days (or longer), the more likely it is to consider an AP versus daily tix (theoretically anyway).

Ed

 

[team bradfield]

Old, I booked it at the same time as our November trip, doing a 10 day and a 3 day park hopper, taking the golf clubs and no children on the March trip.

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

I am sure this is directed at the snowbird contingent exactly. As there gets to be more and more seeking warmer weather, more people buying campers after 2019, sites in Florida are harder to come by. And as was noted, Disney does not want to be a long term host to someone not spending money in the parks.
And yes @bama_ed most State Parks have a 14 day on 14 off policy that I know of, it is also to keep one from residing in the campground.

I know Grayton beach requires just a 3 day absence before you can come back

 

[bama_ed]

I know Grayton beach requires just a 3 day absence before you can come back

I found it. It is basically a 14-day max stay in FL and 3 days out (as @bigdisneydaddy said) with some exceptions:

Length of Stay - Campgrounds

Length-of-stay limits are established to protect the quality of the visitor camping experience. Limitations on camping nights and site capacities seek to achieve this protection while providing adequate camping opportunities to park visitors.

• During periods of high demand, the maximum length of a camping or cabin stay is 14 nights. After 14 nights, the camper must leave the park for at least three nights before returning for a new stay.
• Based on availability and once the camper is registered and on-site, the park manager or designee may at their discretion extend a camper’s current stay up to an additional 14 nights. Maximum continuous length of stay in any one park is 28 nights.
• Campers are permitted up to 56 nights of total occupancy in any one park in each six-month period, defined as Oct. 1 - March 31, and April 1 - Sept. 30.

Any attempt to circumvent the 14-night maximum or 56-night total length-of-stay limit is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to, changing the registered name of a group or individual, making multiple advanced reservations or using multiple user profiles

If a reservation or series of reservations is determined to be out of compliance with the maximum length-of-stay policy, the camper will be contacted and directed to determine which reservations will be canceled to bring the camper into compliance. Refunds will be applied to any advance reservations, as necessary, to bring the total nights within the allowable limit. Cancellation fees will be applied for any advance reservation canceled for this reason.

Florida SP Reservation Info "Length of Stay-CG"

Okay. Moving on to the Fort topic, I might need to get a month reservation on the books soon like @team bradfield did before they consider even cutting the max 30-day stay down to a smaller number of days. Eventually they will get desperate enough to do that.

I think January would be my month of choice. Not for decorations and activities but price, weather, and crowds. On the back of 1500 with the canal in my back yard (#1511 if you please).

Ed

 

[Syndrome]

We have a 30 day stay reserved for end of January through February . It was booked on April 5th . Our reservation has the NEW 30day policy verbage stated .
Hmmm, never knew that was a thing . Guess we cant plan on snow-birding at the Fort now !
Oh well, will have to spend our $$$ somewhere else now !

 

[team bradfield]

We have a 30 day stay reserved for end of January through February . It was booked on April 5th . Our reservation has the NEW 30day policy verbage stated .
Hmmm, never knew that was a thing . Guess we cant plan on snow-birding at the Fort now !
Oh well, will have to spend our $$$ somewhere else now !

@Syndrome, 30 days at one location is enough for us, life is too short, there are too many great places to stay and things to do. we have offspring in Illinois, Utah, Georgia and Texas and have golf clubs and fishing gear that travel well, (love being retired!)

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Makes me wonder if when the RV bubble bursts will Disney's greed and (arguably) arrogance come back to haunt them ? Just like Team Bradfield says, its a big country with lots to see.

 

[bama_ed]

The 500 mark out from today puts me at the first week of January 2023 which would work. The on-line booking tool only goes out to the end of 2022 currently so I would have to call to make one. But since I have 2 weeks already planned for Thanksgiving 2022 (and blabbed to the kids) going back a month later for longer might be a bit much.

Maybe I'll put that out there for Jan 2024? That way I can also pick up my Marathon week 5k and 10k races that I am missing from my Old Man Round. (Did the Marathon 5-10-Half-Whole in the Young Man Round before I was 40yo. Starting in 2015 and 2017 I began the Old Man Round with the Half and Whole. So I still need the shorter races to check all my boxes).

Yes, that would work (if Disney still even allows 30-days in 2024). Then I can tentatively pencil in Phoenix for Cleveland's spring training in February 2023.

Ed

PS - been noodling on the spring training trip. Some good places to see (and eat at) along the way.

 

[Part-Time Paradise]

PS - been noodling on the spring training trip. Some good places to see (and eat at) along the way.

So many great stops on that route.