It has everything. Halloween. Cultural Appropriation. And Disney!

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

Had a good discussion about this with my daughter. It was something she studied in college. She explained how it is OK to wear the actual Disney-marketed costume no matter the skin color/race/culture, as long as culturally significant things like tattoos, etc, were not included. It's like people wearing feathers in a band around their heads to be Native Americans. Those feathers represent an important part of their culture - they are earned in a specific manner. They are not to be worn just to make you look like 'an Indian'. Just as henna designs are fine as long as you don't do the palm/sole stuff that are part of Hindu marriage rites. (not sure if I got that part right - the designs brides have on their hands, feet, that symbolize prosperity in how long they last after the wedding, I think? Sorry if I got that wrong!) It's about the difference of being a character and perpetuating a stereotype. And remember, Disney movies are ripe with stereotypes.

So those poor kids whose parents can't afford the Disney store costumes aren't allowed to go to the Dollar Store and Goodwill and make their own Moana costume because that would be cultural appropriation? No, I can see that there is a difference between Moana and some generic "Sexy Island Girl" costume from the Halloween Super Store. But if a friend invites me to a luau party, I'm going to go, I might even put on a grass skirt, if a 5 year old little girl comes to the door in a home made Moana costume I'm going to gush over her just as much, if not more, than I would over one who was wearing an official Disney costume. No child is going to wear any costume to mock anyone's culture, they're just wanting to have fun and get lots of candy.

 

[DisneyOma]

And if the Disney Pocahontas costume has head feathers?

Where does one get a copy of the rule book for all of this? Or maybe there's some sort of Halloween costume advisory board people could run proposed costumes past before making any big mistakes?

It doesn't have head feathers. No need for a rule book, just knowledge. Do a little research beforehand. Google makes it pretty easy.

So those poor kids whose parents can't afford the Disney store costumes aren't allowed to go to the Dollar Store and Goodwill and make their own Moana costume because that would be cultural appropriation? No, I can see that there is a difference between Moana and some generic "Sexy Island Girl" costume from the Halloween Super Store. But if a friend invites me to a luau party, I'm going to go, I might even put on a grass skirt, if a 5 year old little girl comes to the door in a home made Moana costume I'm going to gush over her just as much, if not more, than I would over one who was wearing an official Disney costume. No child is going to wear any costume to mock anyone's culture, they're just wanting to have fun and get lots of candy.

You've got it a bit wrong - you've got to look and see the significance behind some of the 'stereotypical' things you'd use to make the costume. Does it have a certain significance in the culture? That's what you want to avoid.

 

[mom2rtk]

It doesn't have head feathers. No need for a rule book, just knowledge. Do a little research beforehand. Google makes it pretty easy.

Oh, this year's version might not. But I'm pretty sure the one I had for my daughter (now in the attic) did. Am I required to burn it to avoid some unsuspecting child getting their hands on it in a second hand store if I donate it?

And what sites do you recommend people use for costume prior authorization?

Seriously, it's laughable to suggest that Disney Store costumes are somehow ok, but others are not.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm frankly so sick of seeing this discussion on my FB feed that I'm thinking I'll just avoid it entirely until after Halloween is over.

I do understand elements of the debate and how some costumes cross over into stereotypes that can be offensive or hurtful. Generic Indian, for example - we'd be horrified (rightly so) if someone were to dress as Generic Jew or Generic Black Man by putting on every stereotype associated with those groups, so why is Generic Indian (or Islander) different? But we'd also be horrified (rightly so) if a group of white people started expressing outrage over children of color dressing up as Cinderella, Elsa, or Belle. I see Moana and Pocahontas and Jasmine costumes as falling into the latter category. Dressing up as a specific character from a book, movie, or show is fundamentally different from dressing up as a stereotype of a culture or ethnic group.

So the consensus so far in this thread is kids should be able to wear costumes and dress up as any princess they wish, regardless of whether their own race and skin color matches the skin color of the Disney depicted Princess from the films. I agree.

But...

Does it go both ways? Would people have an issue if the theme parks had an asian woman playing Snow White, African-American women playing Anna and Elsa, a caucasian woman playing Tiana, etc? Or would people get upset over that?

In the parks, especially as face characters, I think physical resemblance is important. Their whole job is after all to "be" the character in interactions with kids so casting outside of the character's physical type, whether that is a white Tiana or a black Elsa or a 5'1" Goofy or a 250lb Mary Poppins, has a real impact on the function of that character.

In Broadway shows? I have absolutely no problem with color blind casting and think talent, not physical type, should be the deciding factor in filling roles. Because at that level, the show is about so much more than appearances and the audience is meant to understand they're watching actors perform.

 

[luvsJack]

What happened to "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"??

I can understand if someone tries to change their skin tone to match another race or nationality that would be a problem. But beyond that, good grief. Are we really going to inspect every piece of a child's costume that is imitating a character from another race to make sure nothing might be offensive to someone somewhere? The vast, vast majority of people have bigger fish to fry than worrying about be offended by a child's costume. Certain things MAKE the costume that person rather than just a generic "person of that race or nationality". So the tattoos, or a Native American head dress or whatever is what makes them imitating THAT person.

I mean seriously do we have to make trick or treating so hard?

 

[foodiddiedoo]

As a parent to a mixed race child, these type of articles always rub me the wrong way. IF you have to stick to your own "race" to not offend anyone or be culturally appropriating, then my daughter can literally dress as NO ONE. Let children know if something they are doing is offensive (like going wah wah wah or saying redskins when dressed as Pocahontas) but let them dress up/pretend to be whomever they want.

 

[Carlymouse]

I would add to this board, but everyone has pretty much covered my opinions. It's nice to know there really is a knowledgeable, sensitive, and SANE community, in spite of what we sometimes see in the news or other outlets.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think that "cultural appropriation" as an idea should not be including the dress-up play of young children. Adults? Absolutely, adults should be careful about it, but I don't think it matters at all for little kids -- they are just using those unbounded kid-imaginations to pretend, and almost always because they admire something about that character.

Personally, I'm quite sensitive to the issue, not just in terms of race but also nationality, but I don't think that there is any ground to be gained in trying to police the imaginations of young children. Once they hit middle school it's time to start having thoughtful discussions about respecting the cultural totems of others, but as long as people are not actively mocking, I think there is no real harm done.

 

[DisneyOma]

Oh, this year's version might not. But I'm pretty sure the one I had for my daughter (now in the attic) did. Am I required to burn it to avoid some unsuspecting child getting their hands on it in a second hand store if I donate it?

And what sites do you recommend people use for costume prior authorization?

Seriously, it's laughable to suggest that Disney Store costumes are somehow ok, but others are not.

Start at Wikipedia if you do not have access to academic search engines. There should be documentation to follow at the end of the wiki blurb to show the sources. Use those to educate yourself about different cultures, religions, etc. Of course there's no 'costume authorization' - it actually requires a conscious effort to be respectful, that's all. People certainly like to fuss about being asked to learn about new things and to take the time to be respectful!

I didn't state that only Disney costumes are OK, just that when creating one from scratch one must consider the way it is put together - is it respectful of the culture, or is it mocking, using things that would be held sacred, etc? Are there no Christian symbols that could be used disrespectfully?

 

[luvsJack]

Start at Wikipedia if you do not have access to academic search engines. There should be documentation to follow at the end of the wiki blurb to show the sources. Use those to educate yourself about different cultures, religions, etc. Of course there's no 'costume authorization' - it actually requires a conscious effort to be respectful, that's all. People certainly like to fuss about being asked to learn about new things and to take the time to be respectful!

I didn't state that only Disney costumes are OK, just that when creating one from scratch one must consider the way it is put together - is it respectful of the culture, or is it mocking, using things that would be held sacred, etc? Are there no Christian symbols that could be used disrespectfully?

Here is the thing, I am all for learning about other cultures, religions, etc. But unless I plan to dress my child in something that is obviously mocking or making fun of another culture or religion, the rest of this is just a bit much. No one should have to do a full dissertation of research to dress their kid up for Halloween.

People dress up as priests and nuns all the time. And they wear the full habit of the nuns and have rosaries and wear a crucifix. No one bats an eye.

 

[Sparkly]

Remember when you could just dress up as whatever you liked for Halloween, before social justice warriors had to get their claws into it?

 

[jiminyC_fan]

I will just simply state my opinion with few words. This whole thing is stupid. Let kids be kids.

 

[L&Lfan]

Here is the thing, I am all for learning about other cultures, religions, etc. But unless I plan to dress my child in something that is obviously mocking or making fun of another culture or religion, the rest of this is just a bit much. No one should have to do a full dissertation of research to dress their kid up for Halloween.

People dress up as priests and nuns all the time. And they wear the full habit of the nuns and have rosaries and wear a crucifix. No one bats an eye.

Not necessarily. I think "sexy " nun costumes are disrespectful. Also sadist nuns threatening people with rulers and such is an offensive stereotype of thousands of good and sincere women who have given their lives to God. Rosaries are not jewelry.
So, yeah, count me as one Christian who might "bat an eye" at someone dressing up as a nun or priest for laughs.

 

[luvsJack]

Not necessarily. I think "sexy " nun costumes are disrespectful. Also sadist nuns threatening people with rulers and such is an offensive stereotype of thousands of good and sincere women who have given their lives to God. Rosaries are not jewelry.
So, yeah, count me as one Christian who might "bat an eye" at someone dressing up as a nun or priest for laughs.

Well I guess that is certainly your right. I just don't choose to get offended by such silly stuff. It doesn't take anything away from my faith, it doesn't change anything so why waste time being offended?

I will say that a woman dressing up as a sexy nun and a kid dressing up as Moana are just about world's apart. And I have never seen a sadist nun. Mostly I just see little girls or their mom's in habits. And I did say blatantly mocking so those two would probably fall in that category

 

[dish rag]

I guess Redbook didn't care much for The Wiz.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

As a parent to a mixed race child, these type of articles always rub me the wrong way. IF you have to stick to your own "race" to not offend anyone or be culturally appropriating, then my daughter can literally dress as NO ONE. Let children know if something they are doing is offensive (like going wah wah wah or saying redskins when dressed as Pocahontas) but let them dress up/pretend to be whomever they want.

Yes, someone on the DIS last year that it was wrong that my mixed race daughter dressed up like Taylor Swift. lol . Enough is enough.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yes, someone on the DIS last year that it was wrong that my mixed race daughter dressed up like Taylor Swift. lol . Enough is enough.

We need a good emoji with someone shaking their head.

 

[punkin]

Yes, someone on the DIS last year that it was wrong that my mixed race daughter dressed up like Taylor Swift. lol . Enough is enough.

People who try to bend over backwards to avoid the appearance of racism, wind up looking pretty racist. Many years ago, my (now in his 30s) nephew dressed up like Michael Jackson. He worshipped Michael! There was nothing racist in a little boy wanting to be Michael Jackson, no matter his skin color.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

People who try to bend over backwards to avoid the appearance of racism, wind up looking pretty racist. Many years ago, my (now in his 30s) nephew dressed up like Michael Jackson. He worshipped Michael! There was nothing racist in a little boy wanting to be Michael Jackson, no matter his skin color.

Cultural appropriation in so many cases has taken a huge turn towards stupidity and much of it is coming from white people trying to be politically correct and show how forward thinking they are. I feel it's a step back not forward.

 

[mummabear]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-ma...i-tattoos-being-sold-in-us-a-cultural-rip-off

Now if you want to see actually cultural appropriation for a Halloween costume check out this “Māori Face” temp tattoo being sold in a Chicago.
Enough upset the NZ government is looking into what they can do about it