Is Universal Orlando Repeating Disney World's Mistake?

[lockedoutlogic]

Well, during food and wine season EPCOT is definitely much more crowded Friday night and Saturday with locals/pass holders. I would think they would avoid summer and things like spring break as much as they can but if you work a typical 9-5 job you really have evenings or weekends to do your visiting

and I am sure there are a lot of passholders like you but I also know quite a few (again, locals) that will just go for a few hours at a time maybe get a snack or something but more often than not go off site for their main meals to save some money - so I am sure it is a mix

And I get what you are saying about weeklong visitors having already spent on the trip itself, but if that is the only time they are getting there that year (or for several years) they are going to make a point of getting their Christmas ornaments and other souvenirs that trip as that is their only chance.

The month of October is a different story...Disney has overbooked the calendar with 22 Halloween parties...

And food and wine is more trouble than it's worth...Florida residents do over do that. It's the same thing year in and out...4 weekends every year is a bit excessive

 

[PuppyJonathan]

The month of October is a different story...Disney has overbooked the calendar with 22 Halloween parties...

And food and wine is more trouble than it's worth...Florida residents do over do that. It's the same thing year in and out...4 weekends every year is a bit excessive

How is four weekends for one of the most popular events in the park overbooked? Is it because it is not ideal in your sheltered little world. Or better yet, if you're going to nitpick EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING LIKE THIS why do you even bother posting on here or even going to the parks in general? The shtick is old honestly. I'm just sick of coming here and seeing you trying to pick people out for not understanding your views on "how businesses should work" or how you feel everything Disney has ever done is a disaster. Yes I'm picking you out because I'm just sick of it.
Love,
Someone who is one of those "ignorant Disney defenders" because I don't point fingers at Iger cause I know 90% of the time he wasn't involved with what your blaming him and also someone who you believe is "the lowest common denominator" of people because I actually enjoy superhero movies

 

[lockedoutlogic]

How is four weekends for one of the most popular events in the park overbooked? Is it because it is not ideal in your sheltered little world. Or better yet, if you're going to nitpick EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING LIKE THIS why do you even bother posting on here or even going to the parks in general? The shtick is old, we get it you're a troll, or just some cranky spoiled brat with warped views. I'm just sick of coming here and seeing you trying to pick people out for not understanding your views on "how businesses should work" or how you feel everything Disney has ever done is a disaster. Yes I'm picking you out because I'm just sick of it.
Love,
Someone who is one of those "ignorant Disney defenders" because I don't point fingers at Iger cause I know 90% of the time he wasn't involved with what your blaming him and also someone who you believe is "the lowest common denominator" of people because I actually enjoy superhero movies

Or could it be that Ive been an annual patron since the beginning of food and wine and the attendance has risen as the overall quality has flattened, son? (You're 26, right?...I don't hold that against you until the term "brat" comes out of left field)

It's just an opinion.

The crunch of the Florida residents (who I defend 99 out of 100) manifests itself greatly in the DVC properties...to where it's kinda pointless to try from my seats in the upper deck. Food and wine was most definitely more enjoyable with "lighter crowds"...no question in my mind.

But that's ok...because it's MY OPINION!!!

And what you missed...was me pulling a certain event/month block out of the "Florida people ruin Disney" tone that this little sucker of a thread has woven...which I reject. In this particular case...local residents do probably make their presence felt a bit more that creates "perhaps" an operational issue for Disney. And I gave Iger the day off on this one...
...OPINION!!!

 

[PuppyJonathan]

Or could it be that Ive been an annual patron since the beginning of food and wine and the attendance has risen as the overall quality has flattened, son? (You're 26, right?...I don't hold that against you until the term "brat" comes out of left field)

It's just an opinion.

The crunch of the Florida residents (who I defend 99 out of 100) manifests itself greatly in the DVC properties...to where it's kinda pointless to try from my seats in the upper deck. Food and wine was most definitely more enjoyable with "lighter crowds"...no question in my mind.

But that's ok...because it's MY OPINION!!!

And what you missed...was me pulling a certain event/month block out of the "Florida people ruin Disney" tone that this little sucker of a thread has woven...which I reject. In this particular case...local residents do probably make their presence felt a bit more that creates "perhaps" an operational issue for Disney. And I gave Iger the day off on this one...
...OPINION!!!

Read through this, honest thanks for trying to change the tone, but confused with why DVC was all of a sudden thrown into the mix
And I only said what I said because of irk. Had I not been so angry would've been calmer, but I do implore you to live a day in our shoes that can't go down all the time

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Read through this, honest thanks for trying to change the tone, but confused with why DVC was all of a sudden thrown into the mix
And I only said what I said because of irk. Had I not been so angry would've been calmer, but I do implore you to live a day in our shoes that can't go down all the time

DVC availability in that timeframe went from rather open about 10 years ago to nightmarish now...the first indication of trouble was when you couldn't get any weekend days...

Who would want Thursday's to Sunday's ONLY in WDW?

Not rocket science here...the DVC is just a simple bit of the puzzle noticed long ago...

The reality is that month is a nuthouse now for a variety of factors...

I bothered to look it up...there are an astounding 21 Halloween "kick you outers" in October and 4 Christmas ones in November before food and wine ends...the upsells are double what they were.

Where do those people go at 6 or 7? Not animal kingdom...some to construction world...Disney springs? That's yet to be proven.

They gravitate towards the one park with established nighttime presence/ambience...

...and they got those fancy food booths too

 

[PuppyJonathan]

DVC availability in that timeframe went from rather open about 10 years ago to nightmarish now...the first indication of trouble was when you couldn't get any weekend days...

Who would want Thursday's to Sunday's ONLY in WDW?

Not rocket science here...the DVC is just a simple bit of the puzzle noticed long ago...

The reality is that month is a nuthouse now for a variety of factors...

I bothered to look it up...there are an astounding 21 Halloween "kick you outers" in October and 4 Christmas ones in November before food and wine ends...the upsells are double what they were.

Where do those people go at 6 or 7? Not animal kingdom...some to construction world...Disney springs? That's yet to be proven.

They gravitate towards the one park with established nighttime presence/ambience...

...and they got those fancy food booths too

And again, how was DVC brought into this?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And again, how was DVC brought into this?

Anecdotal evidence...which is how I presented it.

Florida has one of the largest number of DVC owners and the places booked up on weekends only first for food and wine with increasing frequency. They are the only demographic that fits that.

There are many reasons...but if your point is that DVC patterns are irrelevant then that's an incorrect stance. They are 30% of the rooms on property and are often the "canaries in the coal mine" when it comes to travel shifts.

But don't fixate on that...it's just interesting pattern that most likely relates to the crunch of food and wine period in relation to locals.

 

[Madonna3]

Well, during food and wine season EPCOT is definitely much more crowded Friday night and Saturday with locals/pass holders.

THAT I would agree with. I have a friend who lives in Orlando who frequently has dinner at EPCOT almost any day of the week during Food and Wine.

 

[Madonna3]

DVC availability in that timeframe went from rather open about 10 years ago to nightmarish now...the first indication of trouble was when you couldn't get any weekend days...

Ugh. Tell me about it. I'm ready to sell my Polynesian membership because I can never get a room. I'll keep my Grand Floridian one cause I love it too much.

The reality is that month is a nuthouse now for a variety of factors...

I bothered to look it up...there are an astounding 21 Halloween "kick you outers" in October and 4 Christmas ones in November before food and wine ends...the upsells are double what they were.

Where do those people go at 6 or 7? Not animal kingdom...some to construction world...Disney springs? That's yet to be proven.

They gravitate towards the one park with established nighttime presence/ambience...

...and they got those fancy food booths too

I agree with this.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I think, and I have absolutely NO research on this to support my opinion other than my opinion, that there are more pass holders like me than not. If there weren't, then I don't believe they would structure the pass the way they do. As a passholder, I can tell you I stay AWAY from the crowded times because I have the luxury of going during NON crowded times. I don't know where the belief comes from that passholders only go on weekends or crowded times.

Also, as far as spending goes. I also am not too sure about that my fellow passholders have less to spend than then week long visitors. The week long visitor is usually pretty weary toward the end of their trip after spending on hotels, meals, tickets, and other spending. I figured Disney gave us the small merch discount to get us to spend because we had it to spend. Perhaps I am a unique passholder. When my husband and I visit for the day, we usually book a deluxe room, we book at least a table meal, and we usually will pay for an upgraded experience like a fireworks party for example. Why? Because I didn't spend my money on tickets.

Just my 2 cents.

I think your assumption that most AP holders are like you is wrong. I think you're probably a typical DVC AP holder, but you're discounting all those locals/Floridians that are AP holders. I think they outnumber DVC owners in droves. And it's that local AP holder that goes to the parks more and spends less per year on food and merchandise, which are the high margin sales Disney really wants, than your average onsite guest on a weeklong stay, not to mention the fact that your local AP holder doesn't spend anything on hotel rooms. These people work, so they have to come on evenings, weekends, and holidays, and they clog up the parks and take up precious FP+ capacity. If there were so many AP holders like you, Disney wouldn't have tried to limit them.

FWIW, we are former AP holders of the non-DVC, non-local variety. We bought our APs because we specifically planned to get the most value out of them by planning 3 visits in 12 months for 3 very specific reasons...December '14 to see Disney at Christmas, June '15 for SWW, and October '15 to get in a Halloween trip. We pay cash to stay in villas because we like the space and like being close to the parks. I definitely don't think there are many AP holders like us.

 

[Madonna3]

These people work, so they have to come on evenings, weekends, and holidays, and they clog up the parks and take up precious FP+ capacity.

Are you serious with that? We take up precious fastpass+ capacity?? Do you realize I often can't get a fastpass+ because the NON AP holders have booked them 90 days out and I can't do that?!
BTW, you do realize that I am a local AP holder who does pay cash for hotel rooms, right?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Are you serious with that? We take up precious fastpass+ capacity?? Do you realize I often can't get a fastpass+ because the NON AP holders have booked them 90 days out and I can't do that?!
BTW, you do realize that I am a local AP holder who does pay cash for hotel rooms, right?

I think they're saying you're NOT like that...

But that poster brings up a good point. Local AP holder problably statistically don't spend much on hotel rooms
lb for lb...they rarely set foot in a giftshop...I don't think they fall much for upsells...and they do gravitate towards special times/events and use up some capacity...when the management is trying to market those things to out of town tourists who spend on everything like drunken sailors...

...there is an angle to limit Florida APs if you look at it that way.

Basically: Florida residents are typically not as big of suckers because of proximity/familiarity.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Are you serious with that? We take up precious fastpass+ capacity?? Do you realize I often can't get a fastpass+ because the NON AP holders have booked them 90 days out and I can't do that?!
BTW, you do realize that I am a local AP holder who does pay cash for hotel rooms, right?

My mistake...I thought you were a DVC owner. I know quite a few local AP holders and very rarely do they ever stay on property. By local I don't mean "Floridian"...I mean local to the Orlando area, so they're able to go home easily every night. Unless they're tossed a practically free room under an AP last minute deal or are celebrating a special occasion, these aren't the people who are staying onsite, and if you do live in the Orlando area and still pay to stay on Disney property on the regular, then yeah, I still think you're an outlier.

Are you saying that you NEVER use FP+s? Even if you go to the park the day of, you're still using FP+s. Even when you book your deluxe rooms you pay cash for, you're not using any FP+s? And you're not booking them 60 days in advance?

Who gets a 90 day booking window? No one that I'm aware of.

 

[Madonna3]

Well, I am a DVC owner and I am 2 hours from the parks. So, yesterday, I went to AK. I booked my fastpasses on the way there so that means I took up whatever was left over that others didn't want to ride, and I went home at the end of the night. So, yeah I could go home every night, but I take it you mean someone who might live within a 1 hr drive max.

I thought onsite guests could book 90 days out. Maybe I am thinking of something else, but that shows you how often I use fastpass+. If I can ride something and it has fastpasses, then I do, but I doubt many of us AP holders are booking that far in advance. Most of us just take the leftovers as most of us don't plan our trips that far out.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The onsite fastpass window is 60 days

 

[rungoofy]

Well, I am a DVC owner and I am 2 hours from the parks. So, yesterday, I went to AK. I booked my fastpasses on the way there so that means I took up whatever was left over that others didn't want to ride, and I went home at the end of the night. So, yeah I could go home every night, but I take it you mean someone who might live within a 1 hr drive max.

I thought onsite guests could book 90 days out. Maybe I am thinking of something else, but that shows you how often I use fastpass+. If I can ride something and it has fastpasses, then I do, but I doubt many of us AP holders are booking that far in advance. Most of us just take the leftovers as most of us don't plan our trips that far out.

I'm checking FP availability for today at AK (time now is 5:20p):
Everest: 5:50
Lion King: 5:30
Finding Nemo: 5:30
Tough to be a Bug: 5:25
Kali: 5:35
Safari: 5:35
Primeval Whirl: 5:55

My experience is that there's only two attractions that the extra booking days help with: Frozen Ever After and Mine Train. Everything else will have availability 7 days out and most 1 day out or same day.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm checking FP availability for today at AK (time now is 5:20p):
Everest: 5:50
Lion King: 5:30
Finding Nemo: 5:30
Tough to be a Bug: 5:25
Kali: 5:35
Safari: 5:35
Primeval Whirl: 5:55

My experience is that there's only two attractions that the extra booking days help with: Frozen Ever After and Mine Train. Everything else will have availability 7 days out and most 1 day out or same day.

Lol...

You do realize this is the 100% undisputed slowest day of the calendar year, right?

The only other day in the running is the first non-day off after New Years...January 2,3, or 4th

 

[Madonna3]

I'm checking FP availability for today at AK (time now is 5:20p):
Everest: 5:50
Lion King: 5:30
Finding Nemo: 5:30
Tough to be a Bug: 5:25
Kali: 5:35
Safari: 5:35
Primeval Whirl: 5:55

My experience is that there's only two attractions that the extra booking days help with: Frozen Ever After and Mine Train. Everything else will have availability 7 days out and most 1 day out or same day.

Soooo... I'm not understanding your point. I think you're illustrating mine that AP holders aren't hogging all the fastpasses. Is that correct?

 

[Madonna3]

Lol...

You do realize this is the 100% undisputed slowest day of the calendar year, right?

The only other day in the running is the first non-day off after New Years...January 2,3, or 4th

And it was pretty much the exact same yesterday so that theory is blown out the window. I got Kali for 5:55-6:55, Everest for 6:55-7:55, and Kilimanjaro for 7:55-8:55 and we did stand by for 10:30 Jungle Book.

 

[Josh Hendy]

The debate over who uses or abuses the most FPs and "clogs up the park" really highlights that it's a ride rationing system that was intended as a cheap alternative to building more attractions in response to increasing ticket sales.

Cheap ... and unsatisfactory as you can see from the accusations and counter-accusations above. I'm not trying to stir the pot and create rancor but that's pretty obviously happening in the Just Visiting vs. Local AP vs. DVC FP debate.

We even see the smart people quickly learning how to game the new system, rather like the park commandos and FP- runners in days gone by. More rancor, less overall satisfaction.

Once Disney decided stop reacting to increased demand for.its products by making and selling more products ... theyre too clever by 3/4 ...