Is this Racial ?

[crashbb]

At the risk of being shot down I have to say this is maybe a huge fuss over something that shouldn't be fussed over quite as much. Before you immediately shoot me down give me a minute to explain!

Had he meant it and said it maliciously, or indeed thought about it and still chosen to say it then yes discipline him, fire him, whoever says it deserves it. But I have been utterly convinced that he genuinely did not mean to say it racially and maybe yes he should have picked a better phrase but he said it without thinking and he as soon as he had he apologied, had he been completely ignorant it may have been a different story. I think this women is milking it for all she can get as horrid as that sounds. Yes now she has lodged the complaint they need to investigate it further but he does not need to get fired for a mistake he apologised profusely for straight away.

I didn't want to delete any of your quote, but I'm just asking about the bolded part.

It doesn't sound like he did realise that he had said something offensive and apologised as soon as he said it. From the OP's posts, it wasn't until he was hauled on the carpet that he even realised that it was a word he shouldn't have used and then apologised. I would have thought he'd have had an "Oh my gosh" moment as the word came out of his mouth and apologised to those around at that time.

I also really dislike people who say "he can't be a racsit/homophobe/whatever - his best friend is Indian/gay/whatever". Not all racists/homophobes/whatevers walk around in KKK robes. Not suggesting that the OP's husband is a racist, but sending money to a charity and being friends with someone from India doesn't preclude him from being one (or acting as one).

For the record, though I think that he shouldn't have used the rhyme that he did and that it should not have a taken a call to the office for an apology to be issued (not directly to the woman, as he didn't know she would complain, but to whoever was there at the time - if the woman could hear the rhyme she'd have heard the apology), I don't see this as a sackable offense. In the absence of previous problems, I think it is an over reaction on the part of his superiors.

For future reference - just count to 16 next time (it's the number of "points" you get with the rhyme).

 

[susieh]

It doesn't sound like he did realise that he had said something offensive and apologised as soon as he said it. From the OP's posts, it wasn't until he was hauled on the carpet that he even realised that it was a word he shouldn't have used and then apologised. I would have thought he'd have had an "Oh my gosh" moment as the word came out of his mouth and apologised to those around at that time.

He acknowledged he shouldnt have said it the minute the word came of his mouth - he didnt apologise to her personally until he was told he had offended her - if she heard the original slip up she would have been in the same place to hear the "Oops I shouldn't have said that" - how could he apologise to her immediately if he didn't even know she was listening to another team's conversation. Once he was told (not hauled over the coals - his immediate manager had the sense to know it was an unintentional slip up) he went and sought her out and personally apologised.

I also really dislike people who say "he can't be a racsit/homophobe/whatever - his best friend is Indian/gay/whatever". Not all racists/homophobes/whatevers walk around in KKK robes. Not suggesting that the OP's husband is a racist, but sending money to a charity and being friends with someone from India doesn't preclude him from being one (or acting as one).

Thanks very much for slurring his character and mine - I was the one who said he isn't racist because.......

For future reference - just count to 16 next time (it's the number of "points" you get with the rhyme).

We don't always have the luxury of being able to count to 10 before we speak

 

[wilma-bride]

I think there are two issues here. The first is whether what was said was inappropariate/racist and, I'm afraid that the answer to that is categorically 'yes'. In this day and age, the use of that word is inappropriate in any situation.

I think the second issue is whether the OP's husband should lose his job over it. And, in my opinion, going by the facts presented by the OP, no he should not. He made a mistake and used an inappropriate word, however, he did try his best to rectify the situation as soon as he realised he had caused offence.

I think my main problem is the suggestion that the woman who was offended by said word is in any way to blame and, again, in my opinion, she is not. She found the word offensive, made a complaint and requested something be done about it, which it is being. I think it is unfair to suggest she is in some way being racist in this situation as you cannot possibly know how she is feeling and what damage the use of the word may have done.

I am not suggesting, in any way, that the OP's husband is a racist but the fact remains that he used an inappropraite word in a most definitely inappropriate environment - and, as a manager, should be setting an example - and sombeody complained, which is their right. I sincerely hope that the management have the sense to see that he has shown remorse and tried to make amends and will let him off with a warning.

And I know it is difficult to think before you speak and I am cetainly not in a position to preach because I have probably offended plenty of people in my time by not doing just that. However, there are certain words that I would just never use full stop and so wouldn't even have to think about it before saying it.

I'm going to stop now because I think this thread could so easily get out of hand but I just want to say that I hope all goes well for the OP's husband today.

 

[Grumpy John]

Just to go slightly off the the original thread.

Your husband is in my opinion being disciplined for which sounds like an accidential slip of the tongue.

What about that small group of muslims in Luton who were abusing the Royal Anglian regiment who were parading through the town and the placards they were showing off. Nothing happened to any of them despite what they were shouting.

Appreciate two wrongs dont make a right but what is the difference between the two incidents. What would happen if one of the soldiers took offence to what was being shouted and complained to the police.

Whilst what was originally said was a bit sensitive, I honestly believe that there are those non whites (for a better way of putting it) who are very quick to scream racist rather than realise that in the majority of cases no harm was meant.

You very rarely hear of white people (for a better way of putting it) bringing racist complaints against others.

I am not a racist by the way, there is good and bad in everyone but I do honestly believe this country is going the wrong way in many things and that those in power do seem to be frightened of offending some of this countries citizens

Sorry for rabbiting on. I really really hope that your husband is just slapped on the wrist and is allowed to continue with his job. Good luck to both of you

 

[orlandothebeagle]

Just to go slightly off the the original thread.

Your husband is in my opinion being disciplined for which sounds like an accidential slip of the tongue.

What about that small group of muslims in Luton who were abusing the Royal Anglian regiment who were parading through the town and the placards they were showing off. Nothing happened to any of them despite what they were shouting.

Appreciate two wrongs dont make a right but what is the difference between the two incidents. What would happen if one of the soldiers took offence to what was being shouted and complained to the police.

Whilst what was originally said was a bit sensitive, I honestly believe that there are those non whites (for a better way of putting it) who are very quick to scream racist rather than realise that in the majority of cases no harm was meant.

You very rarely hear of white people (for a better way of putting it) bringing racist complaints against others.

I am not a racist by the way, there is good and bad in everyone but I do honestly believe this country is going the wrong way in many things and that those in power do seem to be frightened of offending some of this countries citizens

Sorry for rabbiting on. I really really hope that your husband is just slapped on the wrist and is allowed to continue with his job. Good luck to both of you

Off topic maybe but I also totaly agree with you on this one.

 

[susieh]

Outcome of disciplinary hearing is that there will be an offical warning for racial abuse placed on his record.

He is going to appeal.

I was brought up to believe that abuse was something directed at a person with intent - not this.

Apart from the anger I feel about this I am very sad that a good man has had his character blemished because someone can't accept an apology for a genuine mistake

 

[Grumpy John]

Trouble is there are an awful lot of people out their walking around with huge chips on their shoulders who do not need an excuse to complain about the smallest of things.

Great shame really.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

Outcome of disciplinary hearing is that there will be an offical warning for racial abuse placed on his record.

He is going to appeal.

I was brought up to believe that abuse was something directed at a person with intent - not this.

Apart from the anger I feel about this I am very sad that a good man has had his character blemished because someone can't accept an apology for a genuine mistake

Good luck with the appeal.

 

[wilma-bride]

Outcome of disciplinary hearing is that there will be an offical warning for racial abuse placed on his record.

He is going to appeal.

I was brought up to believe that abuse was something directed at a person with intent - not this.

Apart from the anger I feel about this I am very sad that a good man has had his character blemished because someone can't accept an apology for a genuine mistake

That is a shame that it will go on his record, however I have to say that, as with harrassment cases, whether someone has been the subject of abuse is very much in the eye of the beholder. While your husband may not have directed the word at her, if she felt uncomfortable by his actions then she had every right to complain - such is HR policy, I'm afraid.

I hope that your husband is able to get past this and get on with his job

 

[mark&sue]

From a completely differant angle. As a women I have had to work with many men (thoughout all my working life) who have made sexist comments and would never want to see any of them get into trouble. Women too have had to struggle. It was not that long ago we didn't even get to vote. In many walks of life even in today's society women are not equal. I very rarely take it personally when I hear a sexist comment, but if they actually meant it personally or tried to hurt me then perhaps I would take it further, who knows. As a women we have just got used to it. I am pretty sure most women on this board have at some time been subjected to a sexist comment and had to put up with it. Right or wrong I just thought I would throw this one in too.

I thought I would add this to the debate not meaning to upset anyone or belittle anyone suffering from racial abuse.


Susan

 

[wideeyes]

I would never put up with any sexist remarks. if women had put up with it not so long ago I wouldn't be at university now.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

I get sexist comments all the time at work, I would not dream of running and complaining, you have to take it as it is meant, If it was said with hatred then that would be differant.

IE the kettle wouldnt work, vet says,woman cant work anything electrical!
Sexist? yes probably but not anything meant by it.
I am sexist as well, men dont indicate, woman drive to slow and slam on brakes at yellow traffic lights.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

double post

 

[TracyK]

I was brought up to believe that abuse was something directed at a person with intent - not this.

Me too. Best of luck with the appeal.

Tracy

 

[Booknut]

If either my husband or I had said that at work it would have been instant dismissal guaranteed, our employers wouldn't care whatever the intention was or not, there just isn't any need to say that word.

I am glad your husband got to keep his job and I believe you when you say he meant nothing bad but unfortunately racism has nothing to do with his intentions or perceptions, its what the other person feels and experiences that matters. Otherwise we could all go around pleading ignorance or innocence whilst belittling and demeaning others.

 

[ariel75]

I just think it's a shame that things like this happen. If was directed at someone personally yes it's wrong but from what i see it wasn't. It was a mistake . We all make them no one is perfect.

 

[kieras nana]

i agree it was a mistake! but i also feel stronglyl,that it is not a word,that many of us,would find,just coming out,of our mouths,because it would simply, never,even be in our vocab,so to make a mistake,using that word,would just never happen.
i am the manager,of a pub & i would be totally shocked,to hear a customer,full of beer,use that word,never mind someone,in a work place!

 

[Claire L]

Shame other derogitory/nasty/abusive words, such as ****, are not treated as being so bad, especially when they were not learnt as part of a nursery rhyme many years ago and can only have been learnt to be used in such a manner.

Claire

 

[waltfan1957]

I'm sorry but I am in agreement with those that think there is no cause for the use of the word he used, regardless of the context in which it was used.

To me, it certainly has racist connotations and I think your husband ought to have thought carefully before he used that word, especially knowing that there was somebody present who may be offended by it.

I do think we have to be very careful what we say nowadays but, personally, I don't see anything wrong with taking the time to think before you speak.

you only have to listen to rap music to hear this word on a regular basis but none of these rappers are accused of being racist im sorry but the worlds gone mad

 

[kieras nana]

Shame other derogitory/nasty/abusive words, such as ****, are not treated as being so bad, especially when they were not learnt as part of a nursery rhyme many years ago and can only have been learnt to be used in such a manner.

Claire

i cannot bear that word,that and ****.i really dislike,hearing those 2 words
tracy