Is this legal? New handrails

[KPeveler]

I noticed something new at the Nemo Submarine ride in DL. The tops of the rails separating the queue lines were topped with a 1/4-1/2 inch thick strip of metal that is wavy, like an ocean. What this means is that people and kids can no longer sit on or climb on these rails, as it kinda hurts to put your weight on them,

However, the Nemo line is also considered mainstreamed, ADA accessible. I thought rails were required, and now people in wheelchairs cannot use those rails to pull themselves along, people cannot lean on them, etc. I will add a photo as soon as I take one.

I understand why they want this, especially around water, but it does make it more difficult to people with disabilities to get though the queue. I am trying to find the ADA rules about handrails. I know they are required on inclines, but as I cannot ride Nemo, I cannot tell you if the queue is sloped anywhere, or how much. But if it slopes even a little, I thought these rails were supposed to be there, and now they actually hurt to put your hands on...

Any other DL goers seen these going up on other rides? Does anyone know if this was "theming" for the "water" ride or if they are going up everywhere?

 

[andersonsc]

I don't remember the line being sloped in anyway so don't see where rails would be an issue.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm too tired to look right now, but I think the only requirement for rails is on stairs and some slopes.

 

[sonnyjane]

I noticed something new at the Nemo Submarine ride in DL. The tops of the rails separating the queue lines were topped with a 1/4-1/2 inch thick strip of metal that is wavy, like an ocean. What this means is that people and kids can no longer sit on or climb on these rails, as it kinda hurts to put your weight on them,

However, the Nemo line is also considered mainstreamed, ADA accessible. I thought rails were required, and now people in wheelchairs cannot use those rails to pull themselves along, people cannot lean on them, etc. I will add a photo as soon as I take one.

Almost any time I've waited in a line at DL, if someone is sitting on top of the railing, a CM has asked them to get down if they see it. Perhaps that was the purpose of adding the "waves"?

 

[KPeveler]

Almost any time I've waited in a line at DL, if someone is sitting on top of the railing, a CM has asked them to get down if they see it. Perhaps that was the purpose of adding the "waves"?

I am sure this is the purpose, and if the ground is flat, then it is just annoying, but not illegal. I just was wondering.

I also wanted to give a heads up - for a long time, I relied on the rails in lines when I had a bad knee. A lot of people like parking their ECV or wheelchair and walking lines. I just wanted people to know, at least at that ride, you will end up hurting your hands if you try.

 

[onecuteladybug]

The Nemo ride has an alternate entrance for those in wheelchairs and using GACs. The handrails in that area do not have waves from my recollection. Also, there is a viewing room for those who are unable to transfer from a wheelchair so that they can still experience the visual effect of the ride.

 

[KPeveler]

The Nemo ride has an alternate entrance for those in wheelchairs and using GACs. The handrails in that area do not have waves from my recollection. Also, there is a viewing room for those who are unable to transfer from a wheelchair so that they can still experience the visual effect of the ride.

I will check the Accessible Experience area next time I am there.

Wheelchairs enter through the standard queue (I just checked the Disneyland website), so I was just thinking that anyone who normally uses handrails to help them navigate queues should know that they cannot do so for this attraction.

I will also ask around to find out if these handrail changes are "decorative" or if they are going up everywhere.

 

[ttintagel]

I've been reading about those new rails appearing at a couple of rides at DL, but I can't remember offhand which ones. I seem to remember that one of the was the Jungle Cruise, but I wouldn't swear to it.

So sad that Disney has to build new stuff because so many modern parents can't be bothered to do their jobs.

 

[KPeveler]

I've been reading about those new rails appearing at a couple of rides at DL, but I can't remember offhand which ones. I seem to remember that one of the was the Jungle Cruise, but I wouldn't swear to it.

So sad that Disney has to build new stuff because so many modern parents can't be bothered to do their jobs.

I know they changed the boat so it is harder for kids and adults to lean out, but I was unaware they made any changes in the queue itself.

 

[Mama Who]

My recollection is that the entire queue is flat. I can check again next month, but I'm fairly confident.

 

[ttintagel]

I went back and found the article from last July I had been thinking about, and it turns out that that one was about the Submarine Voyage, too. I knew it was something with boats!

 

[cmwade77]

I will check the Accessible Experience area next time I am there.

Wheelchairs enter through the standard queue (I just checked the Disneyland website), so I was just thinking that anyone who normally uses handrails to help them navigate queues should know that they cannot do so for this attraction.

I will also ask around to find out if these handrail changes are "decorative" or if they are going up everywhere.

The website is incorrect then (although you do check in with the CMs at the entrance to the regular queue), wheelchairs have their own entrance, due to operational concerns on this attraction. Basically only so many wheelchairs can be on at the same time, so if wheelchairs were mainstreamed, they would end up waiting in the regular line, then again for the other wheelchair users to get off. Resulting in a substantially longer wait than everyone else, which would not be equal. I do go on a fairly regular basis, so I know from which I speak.

 

[KPeveler]

The website is incorrect then (although you do check in with the CMs at the entrance to the regular queue), wheelchairs have their own entrance, due to operational concerns on this attraction. Basically only so many wheelchairs can be on at the same time, so if wheelchairs were mainstreamed, they would end up waiting in the regular line, then again for the other wheelchair users to get off. Resulting in a substantially longer wait than everyone else, which would not be equal. I do go on a fairly regular basis, so I know from which I speak.

There may be operational concerns, like where to put that line of wheelchairs at the boarding area, but it is not because we have to wait longer because of a second "wheelchair line." Because this happens at every mainstreamed attraction I have ever been at (or can happen - not every time, but most of the time, they cannot add another wheelchair to the attraction)

we almost always get sent to the exit where we wait in another line... And this is after waiting in the mainstream queue.

 

[cmwade77]

There may be operational concerns, like where to put that line of wheelchairs at the boarding area, but it is not because we have to wait longer because of a second "wheelchair line." Because this happens at every mainstreamed attraction I have ever been at (or can happen - not every time, but most of the time, they cannot add another wheelchair to the attraction)

we almost always get sent to the exit where we wait in another line... And this is after waiting in the mainstream queue.

Sorry, I was typing on my phone, so maybe I didn't explain clear enough, the reasons (as I have been told) that this queue is not mainstreamed (and it isn't) are:
There can only be two subs at a time with wheelchairs on them, one on the track and one coming into the loading dock. Each sub can have a maximum of three wheelchairs/GACs on it, for a total of 6 every 20 minutes or so (based on how they have to run the ride and the approximate length of the ride)

What ends up happening if the wheelchairs are not in a separate queue (note it is mainstreamed, if the line goes past the accesible exit/entrance for the Monorail, even then it is only mainstreamed to this point and it is rare for this to happen) is they would wait say 60 minutes in the regular queue, then if there are more than 3 wheelchairs in line, the queue could be an additional 40 minutes, at this point, everyone would argue that this is clearly not equal access and Disney would not be able to convince anyone that waiting 40 minutes longer than anyone else is equal.

This is the main reason that the wheelchair queue is not mainstreamed for the most part. At least that is what several of the CMs that work there have told me, as has a person at corporate in charge of accessibility and guest relations. Considering that they all have the same story and it jives with what really happens, I tend to believe them.

For this attraction, wheelchairs could have easily been mainstreamed as far as space goes, so there is obviously more to it than that.

There are a few attractions where this issue would come up, I can think of Pirates as a prime example.

Of course, now that they are doing return time passes for everyone with a GAC or mobility device on all of the major rides, it probably won't matter much anymore. I wish they wouldn't have went with scanning passes, then saying you needed to wait the length of the standby line before going on the next ride, but this is a start towards making the system fairer for those of us that need the assistance and preventing the fraud that has recently been discussed. Hopefully with return time passes they will be able to balance out the wheelchair lines, so that you don't have to wait longer than anyone else on any attraction.

 

[SueM in MN]

That happens at attractions at WDW too.
The wait at the Safari in AK is mostly Mainstrem, but once you reach the accessible boarding area, there is always an extra wait - often just the wait there is longer than the regular line.

We have occassionally gotttn a return card at WDW, especially as in the example cmwade gave, the waiting area for guests with disabilities is already full.
The issues I can see with giving a wait time card equal to the current standby wit are that:
- people who need to wait for an accessible ride car will be waiting an extra amount of time on top of that (so to equal access)

- people who see a guest coming up with some kind of card and entering the line will assume they just used the card to enter the line without waiting. Those guests won't know that the card was given earlier.

We use the regular line and get Fastpasses as much as possible, so may not run into that. But, people who see us in the Fastpass line now assume we are there because of a GAC, not because we used Fastpasses.

 

[dawnball]

Of course, now that they are doing return time passes for everyone with a GAC or mobility device on all of the major rides, it probably won't matter much anymore. I wish they wouldn't have went with scanning passes, then saying you needed to wait the length of the standby line before going on the next ride, but this is a start towards making the system fairer for those of us that need the assistance and preventing the fraud that has recently been discussed. Hopefully with return time passes they will be able to balance out the wheelchair lines, so that you don't have to wait longer than anyone else on any attraction.

Are they doing this currently, or is it in the works? We'll be in the parks on Friday, and it's much easier on everyone if we know (generally) what to expect.

Thanks!

 

[cmwade77]

Are they doing this currently, or is it in the works? We'll be in the parks on Friday, and it's much easier on everyone if we know (generally) what to expect.

Thanks!

From what I have heard (our passes expired at the end of last month and we haven't renewed yet, as we were in Florida at the time and the prices went up before we got back,so this is only what friends have told me as these changes are within the last week or so), return time passes are being given for:
Tower of Terror
All of Carsland
California Screamin'
Grizly River Run
Soarin' over California

Jungle Cruise (May depend on how long the accessible line and/or regular line is, I am getting mixed reports on this)
Pirates
Haunted Mansion
Splash Mountain
Peter Pan
it's a small world
Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin (Again, I am getting mixed reports)
Matterhorn
Finding Nemo
Space Mountain
Star Tours
Indiana Jones
Buzz Lightyear (Only when the Stand-By line is long or there is a backup of those needing the alternate loading method)

They are calling them Recovery Passes and from all accounts I have heard, they are being given to all GACs and those with mobility devices, even if the queue is mainstreamed. I am hearing reports that the return times do not always match up with the stand-by times, sometimes they are longer and sometimes they are shorter. This makes me think that they are not just using it to deter abuse, but also to balance out the alternate entrances to fix some of the issues we have had of having to wait longer than the Stand-By lines, but still keep wait times somewhat equal. This also has the added benefit of if someone sees someone doing this, it can be passed off as a Fastpass or Backdoor pass that may have been given out for various reasons. Not quite as neat and tidy as my setup would be, but still I think it could be an improvement. Another improvement would be to print pictures on the GAC, so that only that person can use it.

I am not saying that this will or will not happen to you, just that it seems to be common place right now, so I would suggest being prepared for it. Again, it can work to your advantage while still making everything fair, especially with proper planning.

That being said, apparently some CMs are now completely ignoring wheelchairs. A friend was waiting for the teacups with her best friend, who had badly injured her ankle, so she was in a wheelchair for the day. There was no one in line at all, but they waited at the top of the gate, like they are supposed to do and expected that when the ride stopped the CM would have them come down, as there was no one in line. The ride stopped, the CM waited for a few minutes after everyone had unloaded (again, NO ONE was in line), never approached them, then a surge of people came and got one, the CM still didn't even say, oh I didn't see you there or anything. So, after the ride stopped, they said something and the CM said, "being in a wheelchair doesn't automatically give you immediate access" and walked away. Their point was there was NO ONE in line, I mean to the point that the CM had to wait for people to run the ride for and they were there before the people who did finally get on were on. They were ticked, but instead of making a scene, they left to go on Dumbo, where the CM didn't see them at first and again loaded some people on that came after them. The difference here is the CM came and apologized as soon as he realized his error and asked if everything was ok, they explained what happened and by this time the other CM at Dumbo had come over and they were both LIVID, saying that while the CM is right that being in a wheelchair doesn't grant immediate access, if there is no line and no other operational concerns (which there weren't, even the teacups CM admitted that much), they should not have to wait until after people who came after them got on.

That was a bit more long winded than I planned, but the point of this is, be prepared to speak up, nicely, but firmly to make sure that CMs aren't singling you out to wait longer because you have a GAC or wheelchair, as it appears some are. And this is exactly what we were all afraid of having happen when the news reports came out. I personally wish Disney would have just listened to me when I reported people selling their services of using a GAC and we could have avoided all of this ugly mess.

 

[dawnball]

Yeah, fallout from that mess is kind of to be expected. It really isn't that I care exactly how they're handling accommodating me - it's that knowing lets everyone set expectations appropriately.

In this case, I'll be sure to rent an offsite wheelchair, because return passes mean extra walking, and I was pretty borderline on being able to walk for this vacation anyway.

 

[cmwade77]

Yeah, fallout from that mess is kind of to be expected. It really isn't that I care exactly how they're handling accommodating me - it's that knowing lets everyone set expectations appropriately.

In this case, I'll be sure to rent an offsite wheelchair, because return passes mean extra walking, and I was pretty borderline on being able to walk for this vacation anyway.

This is a fair point, but I don't know if we can set expectations or not, it seems that it is constantly changing, but the return time passes seem to be a constant, the only diference is which attractions use them. Also, many are reporting that they have had to get a GAC each day.

Also with the return time passes they are giving one hour windows to return within. But, yes it probably wil mean more walking, which my idea of scanning the passes and waiting before being able to use it again would avoid.

 

[dawnball]

This is a fair point, but I don't know if we can set expectations or not, it seems that it is constantly changing, but the return time passes seem to be a constant, the only diference is which attractions use them. Also, many are reporting that they have had to get a GAC each day.

Also with the return time passes they are giving one hour windows to return within. But, yes it probably wil mean more walking, which my idea of scanning the passes and waiting before being able to use it again would avoid.

I don't think we can set expectations accurately - but if I go in expecting that it will be more exhausting, more painful, more frustrating and more disheartening than usual, I'm less likely to be disappointed!

Especially with a one hour return window, like RSR uses, my GAC will do much less to help me tour the parks than I'm used to it doing. As it is, I only used my GAC once for RSR on our last trip, because the process was very fatiguing for me.

Ah well, I've had perfectly enjoyable trips in which I managed 6 rides in a week - I'm sure that we'll rub along on this trip, too.