Is this legal for DVC to do?

[dianeschlicht]

The thing you are forgetting is that DVC is a timeshare, and while a part of WDW, and Disney, it is also a seperate entity, and is run like many other timeshares.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

It may be poor customer service, but its good business. This sort of customer service gaffe is unlikely to cost them much business. Few people are going to sell their contracts over this - and if anyone does, there is another customer waiting to buy it. Perhaps a few people will rent less or be more careful, but they aren't going to let points go to waste. But Disney has reduced the chance to have bad debt expense that needs to be written off as uncollectible - something all companies struggle to keep low.

Its hard to realize, but good customer service is not always good business. And good business sometimes means bad customer service.

This is your opinion, and we'll have to see how it plays out. There are a lot of people on this board who seem upset by this. I would guess that the people on the board here are pretty happy with DVC. For them to get upset about something, I would bet that a good percentage of DVC members would be upset by it. It may not come down to people here selling their contracts, but I know people who may not buy new points because of it. I don't think what Disney is doing is legal, but like I said in previous posts, they're doing it, and I'm not going to take them to court to try to get them to change. What I will do is go to the weekly meetings when I'm down in WDW, and let other members know about this situation. I already wrote to other DVC members that I have met on other stays to inform them of this, and I wrote a letter to the DVC. At some point if DVC hears this complaint from enough people, they may start to offer the ability to have reservations with no room charging guaranteed. This to me would be good customer service and good business for Disney.

 

[ralphd]

Mistakes happen and must be corrected. Hotels reserve the right to add charges to a credit card after you have signed the voucher and checked out. A timeshare has a contractual method of correcting a billing ( or other) problem. Each member signed a contract taking responsibility for any reservation in the members name.
This is not new information if you read the contract.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

Mistakes happen and must be corrected.

When I make mistakes, I don't expect other people to pay for it. It sounds like Disney made the mistake in the OP.

Hotels reserve the right to add charges to a credit card after you have signed the voucher and checked out.

This was never up for debate. Charge the BIL in the OP, and this thread doesn't go on for this long.

A timeshare has a contractual method of correcting a billing ( or other) problem. Each member signed a contract taking responsibility for any reservation in the members name.
This is not new information if you read the contract.

I read the contract a few times. I understand the responsibility for the room, and my guests have to follow the same rules outlined in the contract that I do, but where do they mention souvenirs, or charging anything off of the DVC property? Just wondering. If Disney were to open up a car dealership in WDW and someone were buy a car while staying in my DVC, am I contractually obligated for that debt too? Or is it just T-shirts and stuff like that? This debating if it's legal or not is pointless, as nobody is going to change their position. I wrote to the DVC to get their official position on this matter, and to express my disappointment with the way they handle things if its like described in the op. If you like the way they do it, you can always send them a 'way to go' letter.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

This is not new information if you read the contract.

It's not the reading of the contract, it's the inturpretation.

As already pointed out in an earlier post, room charging could be viewed as a "member benefit" and therefore non-members are not entitled to that perk. The contract is not detailed enough on the topic. Specifically, whether a shopping spree at DTD is related to occupancy of a DVC unit.

 

[Tigger1]

When using the credit card did Disney contract with the credit card owner. I remember signing a paper of whether to allow charges to my room. Does the member have any control on whether Disney will offer room charges? If not, how can a member be held responsible?

I am not for renting points (although $10 pt could make a nice profit), but I want to allow family to use my points. What if they are not good with money, could I be left with the bill?

 

[childsplay]

What if they are not good with money, could I be left with the bill?

Not could, would.
The member will have a hold put on their account, per the OP, until the outstanding balance is paid.

 

[ralphd]

It sounds like Disney made the mistake in the OP.

It sounds like?

I wrote to the DVC to get their official position on this matter, and to express my disappointment with the way they handle things if its like described in the op. If you like the way they do it, you can always send them a 'way to go' letter.

I don't like the way you handled it, if you handled it the way it was posted?

Not sure I can write a letter, since I do not know for sure what took place.

 

[Sammie]

When I make mistakes, I don't expect other people to pay for it. It sounds like Disney made the mistake in the OP.

This was never up for debate. Charge the BIL in the OP, and this thread doesn't go on for this long.

I read the contract a few times. I understand the responsibility for the room, and my guests have to follow the same rules outlined in the contract that I do, but where do they mention souvenirs, or charging anything off of the DVC property? Just wondering. If Disney were to open up a car dealership in WDW and someone were buy a car while staying in my DVC, am I contractually obligated for that debt too? Or is it just T-shirts and stuff like that? This debating if it's legal or not is pointless, as nobody is going to change their position. I wrote to the DVC to get their official position on this matter, and to express my disappointment with the way they handle things if its like described in the op. If you like the way they do it, you can always send them a 'way to go' letter.

No offense to the OP, but how you can write a letter to Disney about something that did happen to you, or witness first hand?

 

[Sammie]

I am sure you are right. But WDW is supposed to be THE place for good customer service. So when I read things like this thread it disappoints me. It's one thing for WDW to "eat" the loss if it was a guest's else's fault. But if it's due to an employee making a mistake it's not right to pass that mistake on to the consumer IMO.

I just can't imagine Walt agreeing with this policy if he was alive, but of course since he isn't no one knows for sure.

Walt has been dead for almost 40 years, can't we just let him Rest In Peace

However if he were still alive I don't imagine he would be too involved, as the business part of Disney he hated to the point he almost bankrupted them several times. If it was not for his brother, Roy, there would be no Disney World.

 

[Dean]

Dean, Doctor P and I aren't making our comments as either pro or anti renting. The original question was whether it was permitted for DVC to prohibit a member from making a new reservation if there was an outstanding issue from a previous trip. The answer is yes.

I don't understand the specifics of what happened in this case -- who was at fault, who wasn't notified, etc. etc. The bottom-line to keep in mind whenever you are dealing with DVC is that they are not going to deal with anyone except the member and that it is the member who is ultimately responsible for use of the membership. They try to screen calls -- asking for SS#, address, etc. to try and be sure they are only taking reservation information from the member or someone they have previously agreed to speak with as an associate. They send confirmations only to the member. DVC does not function as our rental agent. If we give our points over to them in a trade, then they take responsibility for non-members who are using the villas. If we maintain control, we maintain responsibility. We know going in that our "guests" will be offered the ability to charge to the room.

I also think that we should never expect the "agreements" we draw up with our renters to actually have much legal standing. They are a "gentleman's agreement" and lay out an understanding for both parties. But, I think actually trying to enforce anything would be difficult, problematic across state lines, and in the end more expensive than any loss.

My remarks are not targeted at renting but to any guest, sorry if I was not clear.

It's funny that some are making this so complicated. It is really very simple. For a points stay, Disney will get paid if there is any way possible. This includes blocking the membership if necessary. Whether it's fair or not is one thing but it's certainly with in the legalities of the contract.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

My contention is that if my family member gave thier credit card info when they were using a room I provided them on points, I would expect that credit card that my family member gave to be properly charged. Anything else is an error and I'm fine with that being called the resort's error instead of DVC's error. Actually I'm fine with it being labelled the DVC resort's error. If the OP's story is correct, the resort is in error in it's handling of this case and not properly charging the family members credit card. Should they be unable to properly charge that family members credit card, the member should be notified about those charges being directed to them.

 

[Dean]

Should they be unable to properly charge that family members credit card, the member should be notified about those charges being directed to them.

They were and stated it was their policy to place a hold on the account and wait until they heard from the member, not to contact the member. I don't know that this is true or not but it's obviously what happened in this case. I think that's a mistake on their part but that's another matter. One simple question for some of the dissenters and it really is the bottom line. The simple question in the end is whether Disney eats the charges or holds the member ultimately responsible, no more and no less.

 

[byoung]

Diesel what responces have you got from member service.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

The simple question in the end is whether Disney eats the charges or holds the member ultimately responsible, no more and no less.

Personally I do not think the question is that simple..... is there a reasonable customer friendly process that includes appropriate efforts to charge the correct party, appropriate notifications of a problem to those involved, and was it followed would be a couple of my question as a process reviewer. Is there a process, how well is it deployed, and how is the success of that process measured and evaluated for cycles of improvement. Seems like there is opportunity to improve.

If your only asking whether Disney should eat the charges, I would agree they should not eat charges lie these. However, the situation the OP described isn't that simply IMO.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

No offense to the OP, but how you can write a letter to Disney about something that did happen to you, or witness first hand?

My letter described the OP. I asked for their official policy on this matter. I also asked for specific parts in the contract that gives them the right to do this. I mentioned that IF the OP was accurate (I did state that it came from the internet, so I couldn't guarantee the validity), I wasn't happy about the fact that they freeze accounts without informing the members. I also suggested a reservation with no room charging privileges could be a way to go. I am a DVC owner, and these things do effect me, so I have a right to let DVC know my opinions, as you have yours.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Seems to be a little fear that if Disney changed its policy that it (actually DVC) might have to eat some $$$. But we really don't know if that is the case at all.....The credit card was scanned and the CM was supposed to run it to verify it's status. THis would normally be on computer. When the error was discovered (that error being that there was a glitch in the Disney system so that the computer account showed 0 charged...then DIsney could have chaged the credit card. Some people are assuming that there was an issue with the card....but OP states otherwise. I'm thinking that DIsney didn't even try to do this or to contact by phone the BIL whose name and address would be on the 'charging privileges.'

My sentiments and opinion lie in that if DIsney offered....as most front desk personelle do...to have room charges if secured by a credit card...then it seems that this is a one on one deal between Dis and the credit card holder.
'secured by a credit card'. It is DIs's responsibility to check the credit card for status and limits when it is swiped.

In this one case, the obvious defense for OP to fight the ressie hold would be that IF DIsney has no system in place for DVC owners to automatically BLOCK any room charges to their ressies, then DIsney can't come back on them if DIsney offers anyone the 'privilege' of securing charges to a credit card number.

We can all have our interp of what is legal and moral and right...after all, at this point it is only our various opinions as it hasn't been challenged.
The use of credit cards is (1) an obligation between the cc holder to pay the bank unless it formally challenges a charge and (2) that the service provider takes the word of the bank that it will be paid for services provided to the bank customer IF IT SUBMITS THE PROPER CHARGING SLIP SIGNED BY THE CC HOLDER. I've not yet heard that a service provider can lien the home of the CC holder if the service provider fails to submit its charge slip. In this case it was probably the fault of the front desk CM OR a computer glitch...why punish the DVC owner?

Again, just my .04 cents.

 

[crisi]

My understanding from talking to my husband (who manages a system that charges credit cards for a retailer) is that the charges have to hit fairly quickly or they lose authorization to charge. He impied that window was not a legal hard stop - i.e. for his company its only 48 hours, but he said something that implied another company may close it after 72. I don't think there was a problem with the card, I think the charges were sitting on someone elses room and when they got their checkout bill, the error was found. But by that time the authorization window on the card had closed. I don't know that, its speculation. Its possible once the authorization window has closed, Disney gets rid of all the card information - companies are have been trying to delete credit card information where they don't have an ongoing relationship with the customer to lower exposure to identity theft.

At that point, Disney can try to contact the occupant and get new authorization (Best Buy has done this to me when it takes them too long to ship something - but they aren't out anything if I say no as they haven't shipped yet. Granted, the message comes out as "do you still want it - its the fine print that says "this is a reauthorization to charge"). Or they can do something with the member - I think what they should have done is contact the member, but apparently what they do is put a hold against the members points. Or they can write off the debt as uncollectable and eat it.

 

[CRobin]

Or they can write off the debt as uncollectable and eat it.

That is good input.

I guess my question would be, "How would Disney handle this if the OP's BIL was just a cash (credit card paying) vacationer?".

Renters (or DVC members) need to provide photo ID, address, etc. upon check in. So, credit card or not, the room occupant is identified.

So let's say, hypothetically, he booked a cash trip.

He gives them his credit card, they somehow lose the info, he checks out and asks why his bill is $0, they smile, and he leaves.

So, does Disney just eat that charge? Does the resort try and track him down?

Seems funny to me that if mistakes are made, and if it is a DVC member's rental that it becomes the member's problem.

I am not disputing the conclusion that the member is liable for charges / damages by renters, just that there is a double standard being exercised here.

I can see the front desk supervisor saying "OMG, we didn't collect from that guy! Good thing we have a DVC member to go after to get the funds, otherwise we'd be stuck"

 

[dianeschlicht]

That is good input.

I guess my question would be, "How would Disney handle this if the OP's BIL was just a cash (credit card paying) vacationer?".

Renters (or DVC members) need to provide photo ID, address, etc. upon check in. So, credit card or not, the room occupant is identified.

So let's say, hypothetically, he booked a cash trip.

He gives them his credit card, they somehow lose the info, he checks out and asks why his bill is $0, they smile, and he leaves.

So, does Disney just eat that charge? Does the resort try and track him down?

Seems funny to me that if mistakes are made, and if it is a DVC member's rental that it becomes the member's problem.

I am not disputing the conclusion that the member is liable for charges / damages by renters, just that there is a double standard being exercised here.

I can see the front desk supervisor saying "OMG, we didn't collect from that guy! Good thing we have a DVC member to go after to get the funds, otherwise we'd be stuck"

I'm not sure I agree with your logic here. In the case of a cash customer, Disney is the "renting agent". In the case of the reservation made with points, the owner is the "renting agent". The renting agent would incur the loss in either case if the renter walked out without paying.