Is this legal for DVC to do?

[msdis]

Just thought of something else. We got family a 2br at the same time we had a studio. They did not have charging privledges. When I checked out they told me there were phone charges on the 2br. We were unaware they could do this and just paid the bill and didn't say anything. But certainly something to be aware of esp. to those who are thinking that no charging will mean no charging. The owner is still responsible.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

Well, it doesn't seem very clear to me if they have the right to do it or not. The fact is that they're doing it. And now that this OP is out there, it wouldn't shock me to see how people can think of renting points and then use this loophole to their advantage. How would we go about getting something like this changed? When I go down in Oct. I was planning on going to the weekly meeting. Would that be a place to bring it up? I would be more comfortable with them either limiting the charge to $500 and then putting it in-to kind of soften the blow if it were to happen, or having a confirmed reservation option that says on the reservation that we get back in the mail that there will be no room charging privileges. What would other people prefer if it were to change?

 

[CharlesTD]

Well one thing I have done when renting and making the reservations is to put a request to not allow room charging as it is not my family in the room. Now I have no idea if they adhear to the request as made and I have never actually called to ask if they did or didn't but it makes me feel better knowing I made the request LOL. I also put in my contract that room damages will be at ther renters expense as well as any unpaid charges incurred by the renter.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, it doesn't seem very clear to me if they have the right to do it or not. The fact is that they're doing it. And now that this OP is out there, it wouldn't shock me to see how people can think of renting points and then use this loophole to their advantage. How would we go about getting something like this changed? When I go down in Oct. I was planning on going to the weekly meeting. Would that be a place to bring it up? I would be more comfortable with them either limiting the charge to $500 and then putting it in-to kind of soften the blow if it were to happen, or having a confirmed reservation option that says on the reservation that we get back in the mail that there will be no room charging privileges. What would other people prefer if it were to change?

Seems to me that it should be addressed to the DVC owner satisfaction rep (in writing), rather than at one of the weekly meetings. I don't see it as an Offering Statement issue (which could NOT be changed), but rather as a policy interpretation of those statements, which could be changed.

Having said that, I have minimal confidence in them following the policy if they did change it. There is just way too much turnover in the hospitality industry for us to expect everyone to follow the correct procedures 100% of the time.

The problem is compounded by the fact that they obviously have a system where people can override the accounting controls at will. If someone makes a mistake, rather than face up to it and get in trouble, they're just going to override and dump it whereever they can...as happened to the OP and Maria.

I think it's up to us to protect ourselves. If I rent, it will only be thru transfers to other DVC owners.

 

[Doctor P]

Don't rent. Don't let others use your points without you there. Simple solution. What people fail to realize is that EVERY RESERVATION YOU MAKE IS AN OWNER'S RESERVATION. This is why the confirmations only go to the owner. Therefore, you are responsible just as if it were your own reservation and it is up to you to get a settlement from the party using your points. How's about a simple solution like the following: if you are not an owner and staying on points, you will not have any privileges to charge things back to the room and you also must put down $500 in cash or traveler's checks to handle phone and other room charges that are not "charged back".

 

[Chuck S]

What is the advantage to Disney by changing the policy? If WDW charges DVC/DVD for unpaid balances, how else should DVC handle it? I certainly wouldn't my dues going up because someone elses renter skip out, nor do I particularly think it is legal for DVC to increase dues to cover that.

Gosh, members taking responsibility for their actions/decisions to rent to non-members...what a concept! How dare we not blame Disney for the problem, even though we certainly were not forced to rent out the units, and most often make a profit in doing so.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Don't rent. Don't let others use your points without you there. Simple solution. What people fail to realize is that EVERY RESERVATION YOU MAKE IS AN OWNER'S RESERVATION. This is why the confirmations only go to the owner. Therefore, you are responsible just as if it were your own reservation and it is up to you to get a settlement from the party using your points. How's about a simple solution like the following: if you are not an owner and staying on points, you will not have any privileges to charge things back to the room and you also must put down $500 in cash or traveler's checks to handle phone and other room charges that are not "charged back".

THe problem with that idea is that you are still relying on the front desk to manage it. I think a simple statement in the contract is easier, if anyone HAS to rent. I have not had a need to rent out points in nearly nine years of ownership, and I don't forsee doing that any time in the future either, but I do agree that any reservation made by an owner is totally the owner's responsibility. Granted, this could have been a bookeeping error of someone at the front desk, but then it is up to the owner and DVC to figure that out, and DVC has every right to put a hold on things until it is figured out.

 

[Doctor P]

I agree with you 100%, Diane.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

What is the advantage to Disney by changing the policy? If WDW charges DVC/DVD for unpaid balances, how else should DVC handle it? I certainly wouldn't my dues going up because someone elses renter skip out, nor do I particularly think it is legal for DVC to increase dues to cover that.

Gosh, members taking responsibility for their actions/decisions to rent to non-members...what a concept! How dare we not blame Disney for the problem, even though we certainly were not forced to rent out the units, and most often make a profit in doing so.

I never rented points in my life. I may in the future. The OP had a problem that wasn't at all related to a rented reservation. I have friends and family that have used my reservations. If they have an early flight, and Disney can't get a charge to go through these people may never know about it. When they get home, it could slip their mind. Now my account could get frozen and I won't know about it till I go to reserve a room. One of the selling points of the DVC is family vacations. The advantage to Disney Inc. is while there are still points to be sold, they had better address concerns of their current members. I would hope the level of service remains the same afterwards, but its for sure in their best interest to listen now.

 

[jnrrt]

I want to know if anyone has had any luck with putting in a request for no charging to the room. If you do, does it show up on your written confirmation? Since renters cannot change anything on the reservation, I assume that with that and a written statement about it on the confirmation, it would at least give the owner some backup.

We don't plan to rent to anyone ever other than family occassionally, but it makes me sad if this would make it harder to do - we were very happy to be able to rent before we could purchase. I'd hate to see a few unscrupulous renters spook the market - I am in no way implying that the OP or her brother did anything wrong. It was obviously a mistake on the other end. I'm just trying to see how an owner could protect themselves since I do think there are people who would take advantage of such a loophole, although they'd be in the minority.

 

[Doctor P]

Yes, you HAVE rented points Duckfan. Hate to be technical, but if you go by IRS guidelines on rental of property, anytime you let anyone use your property that constitutes renting whether you receive compensation or not.

 

[Chuck S]

I never rented points in my life. I may in the future. The OP had a problem that wasn't at all related to a rented reservation. I have friends and family that have used my reservations. If they have an early flight, and Disney can't get a charge to go through these people may never know about it. When they get home, it could slip their mind. Now my account could get frozen and I won't know about it till I go to reserve a room. One of the selling points of the DVC is family vacations. The advantage to Disney Inc. is while there are still points to be sold, they had better address concerns of their current members. I would hope the level of service remains the same afterwards, but its for sure in their best interest to listen now.

I have never rented points for any compensation. I have had friends and family travel with me and used my points for their rooms for FREE. Either way, I know if such a problem arose, just as in the case of the OP, my friends and family would make good on the obligation. It does not mean that DVC should not freeze my points until the debt is paid by one party or the other. And if friends DID happen to refuse to pay their room charges, it would be an expensive lesson I learned about who my friends are.

Either way, I don't think Disney should be responsible for their debt, even if there were a problems with Disneys billing department, problem with their credit card readers, a front desk CM that didn't apply the charges at time of check-out or whatever. It is unfortunate that the OP had this problem, it does not mean that the OP shouldn't be responsible for the debt.

 

[flexsmom]

"In May I rented a villa for my family and a studio for my sister's family at SSR. At check-in my sister gave her credit card information for charging purposes. I believe it was explained to us that they would have to charge everything to my card and then would credit my account and put the charge onto my sister's card. This is exactly what they did do. At checkout my card showed the charge and then the credit. My sister ended up with the charges she made on her credit card in the end. It's a crazy system but it worked out fine."

This is bizarre. In Dec I had a 2BR and provided my sister's family with a 2BR and friends with a 1BR - we were all on a trip together. Each of the other parties provided a cc at check-in for room charges and everything they charged went onto their credit cards - nothing of theirs appeared on my card with a corresponding credit. It's interesting that everyone is citing so many different processes here for the same general circumstances. Whatever Disney's SOP here clearly isn't being consistently followed by all of the CMs based on the varied experiences stated here.

 

[Chuck S]

In May I rented a villa for my family and a studio for my sister's family at SSR. At check-in my sister gave her credit card information for charging purposes. I believe it was explained to us that they would have to charge everything to my card and then would credit my account and put the charge onto my sister's card. This is exactly what they did do. At checkout my card showed the charge and then the credit. My sister ended up with the charges she made on her credit card in the end. It's a crazy system but it worked out fine."

This is bizarre. In Dec I had a 2BR and provided my sister's family with a 2BR and friends with a 1BR - we were all on a trip together. Each of the other parties provided a cc at check-in for room charges and everything they charged went onto their credit cards - nothing of theirs appeared on my card with a corresponding credit. It's interesting that everyone is citing so many different processes here for the same general circumstances. Whatever Disney's SOP here clearly isn't being consistently followed by all of the CMs based on the varied experiences stated here.

Actually, it sounds like perhaps the person had a 2 bedroom lock-off unit, basically a studio and 1 bedroom on the same reservation. If that was the case, then the proceedure was correct, since it was considered one room and both the 1 bedrm and studio would have been keyed alike.

Only one charge card is allowed for the entire reservation, but can be tracked and separated by individual key card sub-numbers then manually billed out to the respective charge cards.

 

[dianeschlicht]

It's interesting that everyone is citing so many different processes here for the same general circumstances. Whatever Disney's SOP here clearly isn't being consistently followed by all of the CMs based on the varied experiences stated here.

And that has been the complaint here about several other things involving how reservations and room assignments work as well. The problem seems to be that there is no CONSISTANT way of doing things. Perhaps it is just a problem with the numbers of empolyees, but things should be able to be nailed down a bit better than they seem to be.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

WOW.
A question about BWV/DVC accounting not locating charges to a specific credit card number provided by the credit card holder has suddenly been 'reframed' into:
bashing DVC owners who rent or lend points out and then not taking responsibility for issues having nothing to do with room occupancy issues.

As Jim MIA stated...the RULES state: acts or omissions and there were no acts or omissions by the BIL. However, taking the entire text and applying English (and legal) syntax/grammar 'rules':...."All renters and exchangers must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes, and the renting Owners will be responsible for the acts or omissions of their renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Owners to use a reserved Vacation Home.....it must be noted that the specific acts and omissions must refer back to 'affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes'.
Charging purchases to a credit card is not related to occupancy...meaning that the shops, tours, tickets, restaurants, front desk and valet all accept credit cards for payment without any specific occupancy requirement. So in a court of law, I seriously doubt that that particular RULE would hold any water insofar as the DVC owner being held responsible for someone else's credit card charges.

If I were OP, I would pursue this in writing. First, I suggest a letter to the DVC liason. Then to the manager of the resort (Alfredo). Then to Disney accounting or operations. I suggest that the letter be structured by asking for written 'clarification' of any policies regarding the incident with written statute to back those 'policies' up.

Disney offers all of its guests room charging opportunity. Actually, hotels prefer having that credit card on file...so that if there are damages to the room, or phone charges not registered before check-out, that the hotel simply charges the CC given. If Disney extends this service to owners AND cash renters and 'guests of owners' alike...then there needs to be some cross the board handling of it.

I need a clarification here for my personal future reference. If I go to Disney as an owner....can I charge to my room WITHOUT providing a credit card? I didn't think I could....but I believe that ONLY if room charges can be charged without a credit card, could there be any way to hold OP for the charges.

Of course, that is just my opinion, based on common sense: if someone finds my room key and makes charges to the room on it, then I am liable. If someone finds my CC and makes charges, I am protected. And if someone presents his credit card to pay for our dinner, and later DIsney finds that his CC is fraudulent...they cannot come back to me, just because I shared a table at the restaurant.

OP...please get a clarification and hopefully an apology and finally some guidance as to what we should do in the event that someone other than owner is staying at a Disney Resort.

 

[JohnNJ]

Just an observation:

You're all getting worked up over a post made by someone that joined the DIS today and has only posted on this thread.

I stand by my original comments - this just doesn't add up.

John-NJ

 

[JimMIA]

Just an observation:

You're all getting worked up over a post made by someone that joined the DIS today and has only posted on this thread.

That's a GREAT point! We have been rude to OP, who is obviously one of the 80,000 or so owners who has never had any need to post here. That's not like us!

Welcome aboard, Diesel! We're glad to have you here!

And...not for nothin'...your original post obviously had significant value to us all, or we would not be responding to it!

 

[CharlesTD]

I concur with Jim it is of interest to us DVC members and WELCOME HOME Diesel nice to see you around here.

 

[Chuck S]

.....it must be noted that the specific acts and omissions must refer back to 'affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes'.
Charging purchases to a credit card is not related to occupancy...meaning that the shops, tours, tickets, restaurants, front desk and valet all accept credit cards for payment without any specific occupancy requirement. So in a court of law, I seriously doubt that that particular RULE would hold any water insofar as the DVC owner being held responsible for someone else's credit card charges.

It must also be noted that the person in question did NOT simply pay for meals and incidentals directly with his credit card, but billed them to his room key...which DOES have a specific occupany requirement. No occupany, no room key, and this situation would not have happened.

Don't you think any other timeshare would do the same thing? For instance, if I owned Marriott VC, and rented or gave my week/points to someone else and they ate in the Marriott's onsite restaurant, charged it to their room, and then for some reason did not pay for that meal that I, as the Marriott member would not be responsible for my guests bill?