Is Member Services not answering general calls today?

[Madame]

The bottom line is DVC isn’t required to justify how it spends the 12% management fee. Owners are contractually required to pay it, regardless of what services are provided or how much those services cost.

I understand that. I’m speaking of the spirit of the execution of the contract rather than the contract itself. I have long felt this ridiculous intermingling of DVD and DVCMC (from the top down) to be inappropriate, especially given current management.

They are giving the impression that they see no difference between the two and as an owner I find that worrisome. I bought DVC because they weren’t like other timeshares. More and more they are proving that isn’t the case.

 

[Sandisw]

Closing early for ALL members is in no way comparable to excluding SOME members from an opportunity and using those same members’ funds to provide booking services for the rest. We aren’t going to change each others’ minds so I’ll leave it at that.

That’s exactly my point. They could close early, and use CMs after that to do whatever they want for whichever members they want because it’s set up to allow them to do it that way.

 

[Madame]

That’s exactly my point. They could close early, and use CMs after that to do whatever they want for whichever members they want because it’s set up to allow them to do it that way.

Yes and MY point is that I don’t think it’s appropriate given the current division of the membership.

Why has our relationship with DVCMC not evolved to reflect the now *very* different membership structure? Because DVD wouldn’t benefit. Because DVD continues to see and run DVCMC for their own purposes.

 

[dwg]

Lines were still open if your DVC vacation was within 5 days and you could not wait until the next day to discuss your vacation issue regardless of blue or white card. So if you had a legitimate reason to discuss your vacation issues you were instructed to call member services under the above circumstances regardless of card color, otherwise there is no reason to make an issue over something that could wait 1 day. As others have said if you were not booking a member cruise yesterday, regardless of card color you generally should not be calling in. There is no discrimination in the way it was handled.

As far as booking cruises the DVC there nomally is a separate team that handles these bookings. When you call into DVC and want to book a cruise you select a different option than regular member services. Considering the popularity of the member cruise and the long wait times to get through to member services, member services did the right thing by making this an "all hands on deck" situation where only those booking the member cruise or needing to call about immediate DVC vacations should be calling in. This is just member services doing their best to provide the best service to their members as the situation calls for. Unfortunately there will always be someone who is not happy regardless of what is being done. Being able to call in for immediate upcoming vacations did not discriminate by card color.

Regarding blue vs white cards, when someone purchases into DVC they have a choice to make regarding purchasing directly from DVC or buying on the secondary market at a discounted price. If proper research is done prior to the purchase the purchaser should be making an informed decision and understand the limitations of purchasing through the secondary market. If the research was not done then that is on the buyer. DVC is NOT the only timeshare that restricts some benefits of secondary market buyers. It is standard in the industry.

 

[DaveNan]

I'm with Madame on this one. While the development and management of DVD are genuinely different legal entities and as such have different interests they should represent, rather they do not behave in such a way. The management entity regularly makes decisions that are in the interest of generating more direct sales rather than the interests of all the members. Dedicating resources that everyone pays for, to supporting an activity that not everyone can participate in is inappropriate. It is a clear conflict of interest. This is similar to the issue I have with MA have people dedicated to processing direct sales contract in hours, while resale contracts take weeks to process. Disney implies they have MA CM's dedicated to this. If those additional CM's are truly paid out of DVD funds, then that would be OK, however they do not share that level of financial detail in the disclosures, so we are left to trust them. And they have proven over the last 5 years to be less than trustworthy. (lock-off premium gate, base year gate....)

 

[Madame]

Lines were still open if your DVC vacation was within 5 days and you could not wait until the next day to discuss your vacation issue regardless of blue or white card. So if you had a legitimate reason to discuss your vacation issues you were instructed to call member services under the above circumstances regardless of card color, otherwise there is no reason to make an issue over something that could wait 1 day. As others have said if you were not booking a member cruise yesterday, regardless of card color you generally should not be calling in. There is no discrimination in the way it was handled.

As far as booking cruises the DVC there nomally is a separate team that handles these bookings. When you call into DVC and want to book a cruise you select a different option than regular member services. Considering the popularity of the member cruise and the long wait times to get through to member services, member services did the right thing by making this an "all hands on deck" situation where only those booking the member cruise or needing to call about immediate DVC vacations should be calling in. This is just member services doing their best to provide the best service to their members as the situation calls for. Unfortunately there will always be someone who is not happy regardless of what is being done. Being able to call in for immediate upcoming vacations did not discriminate by card color.

Regarding blue vs white cards, when someone purchases into DVC they have a choice to make regarding purchasing directly from DVC or buying on the secondary market at a discounted price. If proper research is done prior to the purchase the purchaser should be making an informed decision and understand the limitations of purchasing through the secondary market. If the research was not done then that is on the buyer. DVC is NOT the only timeshare that restricts some benefits of secondary market buyers. It is standard in the industry.

So you’re good putting money towards a white card only event? DVD needs to keep its own promotional activities on its own tab. This is not about being restricted from the activity/opportunity. It’s using excluded members’ funding to book it.

 

[Anal Annie]

Not sure how this turned into a blue card vs white card discussion. I was just frustrated yesterday that I finally had a few minutes to call MS to take of some stuff and couldn't get thru. Now TODAY the phone lines have an hour wait. I simply don't have an hour to sit on hold. They may still be booking the member cruise or they may be exceptionally busy bcuz everybody else in the same boat as me yesterday are trying today. I have very little time during the week to call and my Sunday is jammed packed with weekend stuff that I gotta do. I'm still frustrated over the way they handled yesterday which IMO has gunked up the phone lines again today. I'll never go on a member cruise bcuz of the premium pricing but yet I'm left with trying to find multiple times to attempt to call. So it's still a pain in my patootie.

 

[DaveNan]

Not sure how this turned into a blue card vs white card discussion. I was just frustrated yesterday that I finally had a few minutes to call MS to take of some stuff and couldn't get thru. Now TODAY the phone lines have an hour wait. I simply don't have an hour to sit on hold. They may still be booking the member cruise or they may be exceptionally busy bcuz everybody else in the same boat as me yesterday are trying today. I have very little time during the week to call and my Sunday is jammed packed with weekend stuff that I gotta do. I'm still frustrated over the way they handled yesterday which IMO has gunked up the phone lines again today. I'll never go on a member cruise bcuz of the premium pricing but yet I'm left with trying to find multiple times to attempt to call. So it's still a pain in my patootie.

Sorry for the double post (posted the first one in error). Your frustration is spot on. At some level this could be seen as a cruiser versus not cruiser issue (it become blue/white because only blue can cruise), or a Disney's interest versus members interest. DVCMC "makes money" on points members use for cruises. They "give" members about $8 per point and then turn around and use those points to take rooms out of inventory and use them in the cash inventory and get about $30 per point. Disney really profits from these events. These profits go to the corporation not to the members or to offset our dues. If additional resources are needed to service (MS) for these events, those efforts should not be funded by the members (especially all members included those excluded from these events). I would argue there should be some dedicated (additional) staff and those hours should be not be paid by dues, they should be paid by the entity getting the profit of the points. The services our MF are funding should not have suffered this weekend.

EDIT: I'll delete the double post - Chuck S

 

[Chuck S]

Except, remember, that the a portion of the cash rental that is returned to DVC goes to offset our dues...so in that case, the offset is going towards funding MS for the day, just like whenever a member trades to any non-DVC Disney venue.

 

[DaveNan]

More thoughts...... DVD and DVCMC is like a developer and a company that manages Home Owners Associations. Once the neighborhood is sold out, the owners decide to hire a company to run and administer the HOA for them. This company happens to be a division of the developer. This HOA company is taking the annual dues from the home owners and using them in ways that help the developer sell its next neighborhood, not in a way to help the owners in the current neighborhood. Could be they pay a landscape company for your neighborhood, but they go ahead and mow over at the other one too. Or they put on some super restrictive or cost things in place that the owners might not support, but they this it will help the developer have a better reputation.

Now when we bought, this was all spelled out and we entered it willingly. DVD built the resorts and sold us the points. The contract said DVCMC would be the management company. We can't decide we ant someone to manage our timeshare. However, it also states DVCMC will manage the timeshare to the owner's interests. If the owner's interests happen to be inline with DVD's interests, that OK. In case where the owner's interest and DVD's interests are not inline, while the contract does not point out this specific distinction, it states they should act in the owner's interest in managing the property.

They overall frustration is DVCMC is not transparent in the financials or in the decision process, as to how things are managed in the owner's interests. Too often we see actions and decisions made that appear to be in DVD's interest and actually against the interests of either all or most of the owners.

 

[Akck]

For all we know, DVD may have contracted with DVC and paid for the use of CMs to book the cruise. The cost of the member cruise was definitely higher than the cost of a regular cruise, so I assume overhead was part of it.

 

[DaveNan]

Except, remember, that the a portion of the cash rental that is returned to DVC goes to offset our dues...so in that case, the offset is going towards funding MS for the day, just like whenever a member trades to any non-DVC Disney venue.

I would have to go back and look, but I believe that those profits do offset our dues up to a maximum of 2.5%. It is always 2.5% on the balance sheet. If the profits are > 2.5%, the association only gets just 2.5% and they do not disclose what the actual profit was.

 

[dwg]

So you’re good putting money towards a white card only event? DVD needs to keep its own promotional activities on its own tab. This is not about being restricted from the activity/opportunity. It’s using excluded members’ funding to book it.

It is the industry standard. You pay a discount for the white card. For instance currently $207 direct, Average $175 secondary market for grand Floridian. $4,800 discount for 150 points. That is a choice the buyer makes when they purchase so making comments about member services blue card benefits vs white card and asking a blue card member if they are good with it really makes no sense.

Again this is the industry standard and if the buyer doesn't like the differences there is always the option to not buy in.

General comment from a law furm says it all when googling secondary market:

After purchasing their interest on the timeshare resale market, this owner will be on the hook for assessments, annual maintenance fees, and taxes – per the developer’s own words – but unable to get the full benefits of an owner who bought the same interest directly from the resort.

 

[DaveNan]

For all we know, DVD may have contracted with DVC and paid for the use of CMs to book the cruise. The cost of the member cruise was definitely higher than the cost of a regular cruise, so I assume overhead was part of it.

You are right, maybe that is true. But they don't disclose that detail...... But I do know MS was not available to me.

 

[Madame]

For all we know, DVD may have contracted with DVC and paid for the use of CMs to book the cruise. The cost of the member cruise was definitely higher than the cost of a regular cruise, so I assume overhead was part of it.

But is essentially shutting down member services for the day (save if your reservation is with 5 days - essentially emergencies) in the best interests of the members? They have a fiduciary duty to ALL members.

 

[Sandisw]

Except, remember, that the a portion of the cash rental that is returned to DVC goes to offset our dues...so in that case, the offset is going towards funding MS for the day, just like whenever a member trades to any non-DVC Disney venue.

I think that is the important piece. In addition to our dues, DVC gets income from other source…but they still get to use the management fee to handle all aspects of the program..which can and does include things not available to all.

So not about a blue card, white card, or anything else.

MS is simply set to function to do both…handle general business that is applicable to everyone and they also provide service for other options.

The fee we pay them, and the extra money they get is used to operate all aspects of DVC.

The only thing they can’t do is charge us more than the 12% fee…

 

[Madame]

It is the industry standard. You pay a discount for the white card. For instance currently $207 direct, Average $175 secondary market for grand Floridian. $4,800 discount for 150 points. That is a choice the buyer makes when they purchase so making comments about member services blue card benefits vs white card and asking a blue card member if they are good with it really makes no sense.

Again this is the industry standard and if the buyer doesn't like the differences there is always the option to not buy in.

General comment from a law furm says it all when googling secondary market:

You don’t understand the discussion I’m afraid. They can offer whatever promotional activities they want to whatever class of owners. DVCMC has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of ALL members. It’s not even about the secondary market. At no point should DVD (the developers) be using member paid services to promote their product, regardless of owner status.

ETA I’m a grandfathered pre 2016 member. We’ll notice that the Moonlight Magic bookings are done electronically. These cruise booking should be no different as they are DVD promotional tools. I would wager they’re not booked electronically for convenience. Not our convenience by the way.

 

[Sandisw]

You are right, maybe that is true. But they don't disclose that detail...... But I do know MS was not available to me.

DVD doesn’t have to pay them extra, because DVC gets to set its own operational budget using the funds they get from membership dues and other areas to manage the program.

They get to run their company they way they want and there is nothing that requires them to provide 7 day a week support to the membership.

Again, we are their clients...but we don’t get to oversee how they use their staff, as long as they are providing us with the services we pay them for, and that includes not being available for general business a few times a year,

Think of it this way...when they set up their operating hours for phone calls, they set them up as 9 am to 9pm, every day of the year except holidays, and special event days.

 

[Akck]

But is essentially shutting down member services for the day (save if your reservation is with 5 days - essentially emergencies) in the best interests of the members? They have a fiduciary duty to ALL members.

Nothing requires them to do so 365 days each year.

 

[Madame]

DVD doesn’t have to pay them extra, because DVC gets to set its own operational budget using the funds they get from membership dues and other areas to manage the program.

They get to run their company they way they want and there is nothing that requires them to provide 7 day a week support to the membership.

Again, we are their clients...but we don’t get to oversee how they use their staff, as long as they are providing us with the services we pay them for, and that includes not being available for general business a few times a year,

Think of it this way...when they set up their operating hours for phone calls, they set them up as 9 am to 9pm, every day of the year except holidays, and special event days.

This ignores the conflict of interest that is obvious here, as well as the fiduciary duty of DVCMC.