Is Living together instead of Marriage

That's a terrible situation, but not typical. (Or maybe pancreatic cancer is one of those fast-moving diseases? I don't know about that.) In general, if you take good care of yourself, you're more likely to live longer and in better health.

Check online. You'll find that the majority of the statistics point towards living together prior to marriage as a negative in terms of long-term happiness.

I know plenty of religious people who are divorced; I do think they tend to work a little harder at keeping things together, but they're certainly not unable to divorce.

Maybe I'm narrow minded, but I'm not uninformed. Again, check those statistics. As for having the same excitement /newlywed stage, how can you know that? You only get to experience it one way.

Yes, communication is of utmost importance, but -- again, in my limited experience -- it's in short supply among dating couples. From listening to my friends, it seems to me that each member of the couple seems to assume that the other thinks like he or she does.

I was aiming to share my views, unpopular as they may be. Nothing was meant to be snide.
I think that’s the myth though that if you take care of yourself you’ll live longer. Excluding extreme behavior, most of it is most likely genetics & environment. I thought that was the point the pp made that I was agreeing with. I’ve known many ppl who took care of themselves by most standards & died of cancer. They all lived in Louisiana though. I think we rank 3rd highest in cancer deaths in the US. In my department alone right now there are 5 youngish ppl who have cancer.
 
I married once and vowed not to make the same mistake. Been living in sin for decades since.

My mother constantly asked me when I was going to to marry the "sin" man and I constantly answered the 12th of never and changed the subject;). There have been times he made more money than me but I'm better at saving. Thus I control my own destiny, pay my own taxes and really have no need for his social security checks. I tell people I have a has-been, a wannabe, but noooo husband. I'm weally happy and uhm I think the men in my life are too:rotfl2:.

I think it's generally considered a better deal for men because they can move on and start over at any age, women have a shelf life on our uterus. My situation isn't quite the same because I was married, but my husband and I split after 14 (3 months shy of 15) years of marriage. He has the option of finding a younger woman and starting a new family. However, at 37 I don't have those same options. Please don't anyone get offended, but my personal opinion is that men age better than women. Maybe that's just my own perception of society's standards, but age and gravity take more of a toll on women's bodies than men's.
I divorced after 12 years in my 30's, can still recall wailing my heart out on the back staircase and thinking my life was over.

I had 3 children, one who died early, which left me with the two I was obviously intended to keep in this life.
I'll admit I bawled on the back stairscase when the divorce decree became final. Trying to imagine our/my new future as my children slept through my emptied by the ex joint bank accounts; had sold real estate properties prior to the end so people wouldn't cause bodily to a man I doubted, and battled (and lost) with the IRS over income he dinna pay taxes on.

Further honesty?
Never thought any of my prospects were gone because of my age; just dinna feel like starting over after building so much.

I thank the ethos of the women of my family for pushing me forward and the "good looking" genes they passed on. Some I got to hear from IRL and others I heard of secondhand. The bottom line was smart was forever and cute for a minute. Always be able to take care of self as you never know what the future will bring.

And here's my ultimate head's up: 30 odd years later I'm financially secure, look pretty good for my age despite sagging boobs that none of my breastfed children will pay for (I asked) whilst staring into the sky w/ that "Whyyyy is my Mom so nutty?" look, needed dental implants (I can pay for 'em but am a dentalphobe, sigh); live w/ a man who realises I'll never marry him and am perfectly happy knowing the last job the ex had was being an itinerant worker picking herbs in the mountains of France.
I'm a firm believer that revenge is a dish best served cold since I no longer need to spend wasted time figuring out how to smuggle a handgun into his country. Oops.
;).

Think your life through and remember you are an individual thousands of years in the making:).
 
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I agree. Although it's not a popular mindset today, it's a horrible deal for both partners:

- In my limited experience, all too often a couple moves in together, and one of the pair -- usually the woman -- has the idea that this is a prelude to marriage. Yet that expectation isn't always shared. When marriage doesn't come along -- after six months, a year, whatever timeframe the marriage-oriented partner had in mind -- tensions flare.
- Statistics tell us that most people who move in together without marriage don't end up "happily ever after" -- they're more likely to go their separate ways, which makes sense because everyone goes through hard times occasionally, and without legal ties it's easier to walk away from one another.
- Statistics tell us that people who lived together before marriage are more likely -- if they marry -- to divorce.
- People like to say it's to find out if they're compatible /to practice being married, but that makes no sense. You can't "practice" taking on a lifetime commitment to one another. "Trying it out" is the exact opposite of making a commitment to one another and agreeing to do your best for one another no matter what.
- Living together and mixing finances can turn into a sticky mess; better to have a non-romantic roommate before marriage.
- If children are involved, it's horribly confusing for them if /when things go badly.
- If families aren't in agreement (and don't you know a whole lot of families who think the spouse isn't good enough for their baby girl or golden boy?), sickness, death or inheritance can be very tricky since the two partners have no legal ties to one another. Parents (or adult children) can end up being official next-of-kin, and next-of-kin has some rights that live-in-boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't.
- Coming home from your wedding and moving in together for the first time has a special excitement, a sense of forever -- I can't imagine how it would be to come home from your wedding and not have that "new" feeling.
I agree with everything you said.
 
- Coming home from your wedding and moving in together for the first time has a special excitement, a sense of forever -- I can't imagine how it would be to come home from your wedding and not have that "new" feeling.
I agree with your previous statements actually except this one.

What this one is is in stark contrast (IMO) to the other points because this one is purely individual specific opinion based.

My husband and I lived together 1 1/2 months before the wedding. It wasn't planned. What was always planned was moving in once we got married but the perfect for us place opened up.

BUT we each had separate apartments and had lived separately in the nearly 5 1/2 years since we met to our wedding day. A big detail is we were with each other nearly every night (with the exception of when my husband was still in college and I had already graduated I saw him on the weekends) since we met.

That 'new' feeling you describe is was still very much with us. You see after 1 1/2 hours of sleep the night of our wedding we got up and flew off to our honeymoon and had a wonderful 9 day trip. We came back home still had the 'new' feeling...why you ask? because we were husband and wife instead of boyfriend and girlfriend or fiancee and fiance. The place of residence didn't create that emotion in us. For you I can def. understand if it did but it didn't for us. And couples who cohabitated for a while before marriage I have a feeling at least some of them had a 'new' feeling, a sense of forever and/or special excitement too. I'd say those emotions aren't a one-sized fits all,waiting=those emotions type situation.
 

My thought on this particular one is that most people will live together before they are married, the only ones who don't are usually very religious, which also comes hand in hand with an "inability" to divorce, doesnt mean they are happily married, it just makes them trapped.
I suppose qualifying it as 'usually' works because you're not saying all.

In my case..I'm not really religious at all. Sure I had CCD training up until 5th grade when I requested to quit but we were quickly the C & E Catholics and I haven't been to church in eons. Not trying to get into the religious talk but it's for sure not related to religion for myself (neither my husband and I could have gotten married in a Catholic church because we weren't confirmed nor had done marriage counseling--all gravy by me because the last thing I wanted to do was get married in a church) and my husband for why we didn't want to live with each other before marriage.

What I will say is we got so much crap from other people because we made that choice. No one made the religous argument you're making because they personally knew us but it was unusual for people around us to want to do that. Living together before marriage was seen as normal and not living together was seen as not normal. Make of that what you will.

As someone else said I do actually know people who have been very religious and got divorced. Actually my own godparents were like that. For my birthday one year I got a Mary barbie doll complete with a baby belly and baby. Very religious folks. Divorced eventually though.
 
:rotfl2:Your "thoughts" are hilariously narrow-minded. Please do go on to expound on how we're probably all uneducated, sexually repressed and controlled by the patriarchy...:rotfl2:

Never mind, it would give me points....

Check online. You'll find that the majority of the statistics point towards living together prior to marriage as a negative in terms of long-term happiness
Not all studies have found that. Also you are confusing long term happiness,, and not getting divorced, they dont always come hand in hand.

"
Using data from the U.S. governments’ 1995, 2002, and 2006 National Surveys of Family and Growth, Kuperberg analyzed more than 7,000 individuals who had been married. Some of the people she studied were still with their spouse. Others were divorced. Then, instead of studying just the correlation between cohabitation and divorce, Kuperberg looked at how old each individual was when he or she made his or her first major commitment to a partner—whether that step was marriage or cohabitation.

Moving in together without a diamond ring involved didn’t, on its own, lead to divorce. Instead, she found that the longer couples waited to make that first serious commitment, the better their chances for marital success."

"
almost a dozen studies conducted since the 1970s have shown the very opposite outcome — that cohabitation prior to marriage is linked to lower marital happiness and stability and a higher chance of divorce. This substantial body of research found that couples who lived together before getting married were in fact 33% more likely to split up than those who didn’t.

Researchers called this paradoxical finding “the cohabitation effect” and frequently surmised that it had more to do with whodecided to cohabitate than with cohabitation itself. That is, because more “unconventional” types — folks who were less religious and less committed to the institution of marriage — were more likely to live together before marriage, they were also more likely to seek a divorce if the relationship went sour. The cohabitation effect was thus an issue of correlation, rather than causation"
"Nonetheless, as cohabitation has become more common, and been picked up by a broader and more conventional swath of the population, its negative impact on divorce has indeed declined, and even disappeared. A recent study that analyzed only those couples that had been married since 1996, found no link between cohabitation before marriage and instability afterward. A 2012 report from the CDC likewise posited “that the association between premarital cohabitation and marital instability for first marriages may have weakened over time because it is less apparent for more recent birth cohorts"

You have a point - the one aspect of that post I wouldn't have expressed myself is most women want marriage and most men don't, and that women basically only agree to live together while they're hoping for a ring. There's no basis for assuming that.

:scratchin I'd be interested to know though, from somebody who's views are different than mine, if @MrsPete 's post vibed as snide to you as @mummabear 's did to me?

It wasn't meant to be snide. With over 2/3 of the population living together before they are married, and figures showing that the majority that dont, do so for religious reasons, it makes sense to come to the conclusion that there is a link between "We cant live together before we are married because it is a sin" and "divorce is a sin"
 
You don't think that @MrsPete views are narrow minded too? I lived with my now husband for 8 months before we were married. We definitely had the newlywed stage just the same as couples who waited.

in my experience, dating was different than living with than being married to dh. yes, we had the 'newlywed stage' just as our peers who hadn't lived with with each other prior to marriage. the only differences we saw in their newlywed stage was they seemed to experience/grapple with the natural adjustments/give and take to sharing living space with someone 'new' and either (with those who were not sexually intimate w/each other pre marriage) the addition of that element to their relationship or for those who had-there was no longer one going to their own home after sharing the other's bed.

i personally liked that dh and i had lived together and knew each other's living habits-i had a few friends who were wholly unprepared for their new spouse's lifestyle habits (what constitutes a 'clean' home, who is responsible for what chores, budgeting/lack thereof...) and it was a real adjustment for them; for some one that couldn't be achieved and divorce was pretty quick afterwards (love does NOT conquer all-esp. if one spouse believes with every fiber of their being that by virtue of marriage the other becomes the live in de facto cook, housekeeper, handyman, auto mechanic....).

In my limited experience, all too often a couple moves in together, and one of the pair -- usually the woman -- has the idea that this is a prelude to marriage. Yet that expectation isn't always shared. When marriage doesn't come along -- after six months, a year, whatever timeframe the marriage-oriented partner had in mind -- tensions flare.

maybe i ran with a different crowd but the bulk of the women i knew in my younger years (20's/30's in the 80's and 90's) who were living with their s.o. absent marriage had no desire to be married (i know when i agreed to living w/dh-first and only s.o. i ever lived with, marriage was NOTHING i had an interest in), it was a genuine desire to live with the person they enjoyed being with/loved AND it was financially and practically sound to split the rent w/your s.o. vs. a roommate who might be bring in THEIR s.o. for over nite visits invading your personal space. the ones that wanted to push the marriage agenda were largely those who made it a prerequisite to sexual intimacy let alone living together (and i saw several of those crash and burn after they 'sealed the deal' and that part of the honeymoon phase wore off despite any purported religious beliefs either party professed).

Living together and mixing finances can turn into a sticky mess; better to have a non-romantic roommate before marriage.

never co-mingled or mixed finances. he paid his 50%, i paid mine. i also have numerous married friends who have continued the practice (though that was never our plan or desire).

If families aren't in agreement (and don't you know a whole lot of families who think the spouse isn't good enough for their baby girl or golden boy?), sickness, death or inheritance can be very tricky since the two partners have no legal ties to one another. Parents (or adult children) can end up being official next-of-kin, and next-of-kin has some rights that live-in-boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't.

for those places that don't have laws to cover it (after a certain period of living together as a 'couple') it takes only an advanced medical directive and p.o.a. to ensure a non spouse has the same rights as a spouse (plenty of same sex couples utilized this before marriage was legalized for them). as far as inheritance goes-again, if one wants to provide for the other a simple will suffices, for that matter i've known married couples (primarily subsequent to prior marriages ending in divorce or death) who have entirely separate estate plans that provide nothing for their spouses (leaving to their separate children, extended family and favored charities).
 
That might have changed I guess. I have been off the market for a long, long time, but, last I heard in the states it was 6 years to become a common law marriage. Has that changed.... not even asking for a friend. Just curious.

It depends state to state. The state I live in you could live together for 25 years if you want but you are not married. There is no common law in my state, Massachusetts. Im actuality I think about 13 states recognize common law. The rest you actually have to be legally married.
 
It depends state to state. The state I live in you could live together for 25 years if you want but you are not married. There is no common law in my state, Massachusetts. Im actuality I think about 13 states recognize common law. The rest you actually have to be legally married.

or they can be like mine (washington) where we don't have common law marriages BUT they are legally recognized if you come from a state in which they WERE recognized and you met the criteria, but it doesn't matter anyway b/c as far as dividing property and debts a court that decides you have had a stable, "marriage-like" relationship can divide certain types of property and debts you acquired during your relationship.
 
or they can be like mine (washington) where we don't have common law marriages BUT they are legally recognized if you come from a state in which they WERE recognized and you met the criteria, but it doesn't matter anyway b/c as far as dividing property and debts a court that decides you have had a stable, "marriage-like" relationship can divide certain types of property and debts you acquired during your relationship.

WOW that would stink. sort of like Palimony kinda thing. My state does recognize anything like that, you have no rights like a married couple no matter how long you live together. They also don't recognize other states in you move her from what I can find.
Now if make the debt or property joint yup.
 
WOW that would stink. sort of like Palimony kinda thing. My state does recognize anything like that, you have no rights like a married couple no matter how long you live together. They also don't recognize other states in you move her from what I can find.
Now if make the debt or property joint yup.


yup-if people are smart they do a 'living together contract' to spell everything out BEFORE they start living together.
 
yup-if people are smart they do a 'living together contract' to spell everything out BEFORE they start living together.

We did this even getting married. We both have real estate and want our respective children to benefit from them. A mini pre-nup I guess. We both would get the property in the home since we acquired that together however the actual RE goes to each ones boys. Ok we only have boys not a patriarchial thing :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:
 
That might have changed I guess. I have been off the market for a long, long time, but, last I heard in the states it was 6 years to become a common law marriage. Has that changed.... not even asking for a friend. Just curious.
British Columbia, Canada. Not sure what the statute is for your state.
 
I think that’s the myth though that if you take care of yourself you’ll live longer. Excluding extreme behavior, most of it is most likely genetics & environment. I thought that was the point the pp made that I was agreeing with
it's true genetics have a major role. My grandfather is still alive at 87. He has smoked 1/2 a pack of unfiltered Camels & drank at least a pint of straight vodka on the daily since before I was born (I'm 30 now). He still smokes and drinks to this day!!! His father was exactly the same way, apparently.
 
You have a point - the one aspect of that post I wouldn't have expressed myself is most women want marriage and most men don't, and that women basically only agree to live together while they're hoping for a ring. There's no basis for assuming that.

:scratchin I'd be interested to know though, from somebody who's views are different than mine, if @MrsPete 's post vibed as snide to you as @mummabear 's did to me?

I know you are not asking me directly, but I will give my opinion. I think MrsPete's came off as more snide to me because I think the tone of superiority that some people like to use when speaking of religion is off putting. I define myself as a recovering Catholic for the record, meaning I now longer attend church regularly, but I was baptized and confirmed. Anyway, you do not have to be religious to take marriage vows seriously or to hold marriage out to be something special.
 
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WOW that would stink. sort of like Palimony kinda thing. My state does recognize anything like that, you have no rights like a married couple no matter how long you live together. They also don't recognize other states in you move her from what I can find.
Now if make the debt or property joint yup.
Same for my state-no recognition. My life is simplified somewhat as I own or control all assets.
 
Same in Canada. I have a heck of a story in how it can backfire.

TL;DR my cousin lived with my Uncle after her divorce and in exchange for her doing the chores and cooking, she lived there rent free. They were first cousins. He died of liver failure (hep C) and before he died he fixed his will to give her his house. His four nieces and nephews (me and my siblings) were to share his savings and stocks etc. She knew the will and agreed to it. After he died she contested the will claiming common law marriage and walked away with half of everything. Needless to say her name is banned around us.

Isn't there some threshold to prove it was a conjugal or romantic relationship? So any caretakers or roommates can then claim common law marriage after a certain period of time?
 
I would say relationships are a better deal today for women than for men.

At 43 years old, I had a junk car, bicycle, kayak, clothing, debt, and $600 to start my life over again on less than 30% of my paycheck. She had a house, almost new reliable car, retirement money, the other half of my last paycheck which was $600, her full paycheck, health insurance paid by me, car insurance paid by me, temporarily 20% of my future paychecks, and 1/3 of my future paychecks to start over with.
 
Isn't there some threshold to prove it was a conjugal or romantic relationship? So any caretakers or roommates can then claim common law marriage after a certain period of time?

He was dead so she could say anything she wanted. She claimed it was romantic (EWWWW) and no one could disclaim it. Believe me, this was a years long battle in court.
 



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