Is Living together instead of Marriage

[Micca]

When DW and I were dating we considered moving in together but I preferred that we get married. It just seemed like the thing to do for two people in love and planning to stay that way. It's only been 44 years so I guess we're still just kinda testing the waters.

Seeing how ugly divorces can get, I can sure see why people wouldn't want to get married and I sure don't blame them. I don't have a strong feeling about it when it comes to other people, just for me & DW

 

[gillep]

When DW and I were dating we considered moving in together but I preferred that we get married. It just seemed like the thing to do for two people in love and planning to stay that way. It's only been 44 years so I guess we're still just kinda testing the waters.

Seeing how ugly divorces can get, I can sure see why people wouldn't want to get married and I sure don't blame them. I don't have a strong feeling about it when it comes to other people, just for me & DW

I think DH and I thought about it in exactly the opposite way as you lol. We figured that we planned on being together forever so we didn't have to rush to get married. We were together for about 5 years, and living together on and off for 4 of those years before we got married.

 

[barkley]

I agree that spelling things out is a great idea, but how many people do you think actually do it?

no idea b/c i've been seeing what seems (to me) to be a new 'arrangement' w/ at least the 20 somethings.

i'm to the point where i'm no longer surprised to hear that another of dd's friends has gotten quickly married-no wedding, no engagement period to speak of, just went to the courthouse and got it done. it's almost become the current version OF living together b/c i'm also no longer surprised to hear of these marriages ending. i don't know if it's the case but i have to wonder if these marriages aren't in large part done to get around the fafsa rules b/c if they marry the 'newlyweds' both tend to qualify for WAY more financial aide, and what i've observed their divorces seem to routinely coincide w/ either the end of a rental unit lease term and/or their graduation from college (i've also heard that the married couple on campus housing is MUCH nicer and desirable at the local colleges).

 

[goofyernmost]

I think a lot of this stuff is an issue if there are young children involved that still require support. I was married just over 29 years at the time of our divorce. In our early years we worked together to make ends meet and slowly increase our standard of living. During our marriage she managed to secure her Masters Degree in Nursing and Her masters degree in gerontology. Her ability to earn a living, education wise, far exceeded mine. Due to that situation after all those years of struggle, she decided that she no longer wanted to be married as I was "dragging her down" and I was apparently to controlling so without even a goodbye she moved out while I was at work. She took very little and asked for nothing initially. Our children were grown and married by then in fact the youngest got married just three months before she left.

Now another part of the backstory, she also had a progressive mental illness that caused her to be strongly paranoid, angry and depressed. She did not process abstract thought very well and was as literal as anyone I have ever met. There were warning signs of that before we got married, but, I was to smitten to notice them at the time. However, the sure came back to bite me later in the relationship. By the time she left, I was numb to anything that she came up with, but, I did know that she crossed that line where I could just forgive and forget. I also wanted out, so I did not contest the divorce or even attempt to fix it. The days of trying to fix were over.

Since we had a family and by then grandchildren we were occasionally at the homes of our kids at the same time. We were friendly toward each other, but, it was cold and very uncomfortable. I will admit to being hurt, but, I honestly came out better in it then she did. Because of her illness she could not keep a job and what little money we split up when we sold the house (after paying off all the debt) was gone quickly. While she was in school before the divorce her father passed away and left her 80K that she spent pursuing her Doctorate in Gerontology and also borrowed an additional 30K in student loans. She wanted them to be joint loans, but, I refused and even though they tried to get me to pay it off, it didn't happen.

I don't regret our marriage because I have two wonderful daughters and 4 equally wonderful grandkids that I love dearly and spend as much time with as I can without being underfoot. We had many years together before her problems started to take it's toll. She passed away in 2016 broke and basically supported by the state. I paid for her burial plot and split the cost of the head stone with my kids. Many time I was asked why after being divorced by her over 15 years before her death all I could do is say... We had many happy times and we jointly raised a great family and she was my wife and I, her husband for 29 years and I wanted to know that she was taken care of. She didn't ask for the illness that forced the separation of her and her family, but, I don't ever want it forgotten that she existed and was at least half responsible for the fine family that I have supporting me and keeping me from being alone. Nothing will take those good times away and I don't want them to be taken away so let's just call it payback.

Why did I tell you this story. I told it because there is way to much hate in this world and country today and we need to take inventory on what and who was a part of the life we have now. I was lucky that I was able to pull myself up and continue to survive. She was not, but, I would never want it to be like she never existed. She did exist and because of that there will be a continuing line of humans that will affect the world, hopefully, in a positive way. That's not to mention the years she spent as a Registered Nurse and helped keep many people alive. I hate mental illness as much as some people hate cancer. It deprived the two of us a life together to the end and I think there is a good chance she would be alive today, had it not been for that illness. So living together or marriage, nothing is ever promised to be forever. Some will survive until death do us part, others will not whether we took the public vows or we didn't. Love isn't defined by a piece of paper, it comes from some internal source that hopefully goes on for a lifetime.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

I think a lot of this stuff is an issue if there are young children involved that still require support. I was married just over 29 years at the time of our divorce. In our early years we worked together to make ends meet and slowly increase our standard of living. During our marriage she managed to secure her Masters Degree in Nursing and Her masters degree in gerontology. Her ability to earn a living, education wise, far exceeded mine. Due to that situation after all those years of struggle, she decided that she no longer wanted to be married as I was "dragging her down" and I was apparently to controlling so without even a goodbye she moved out while I was at work. She took very little and asked for nothing initially. Our children were grown and married by then in fact the youngest got married just three months before she left.

Now another part of the backstory, she also had a progressive mental illness that caused her to be strongly paranoid, angry and depressed. She did not process abstract thought very well and was as literal as anyone I have ever met. There were warning signs of that before we got married, but, I was to smitten to notice them at the time. However, the sure came back to bite me later in the relationship. By the time she left, I was numb to anything that she came up with, but, I did know that she crossed that line where I could just forgive and forget. I also wanted out, so I did not contest the divorce or even attempt to fix it. The days of trying to fix were over.

Since we had a family and by then grandchildren we were occasionally at the homes of our kids at the same time. We were friendly toward each other, but, it was cold and very uncomfortable. I will admit to being hurt, but, I honestly came out better in it then she did. Because of her illness she could not keep a job and what little money we split up when we sold the house (after paying off all the debt) was gone quickly. While she was in school before the divorce her father passed away and left her 80K that she spent pursuing her Doctorate in Gerontology and also borrowed an additional 30K in student loans. She wanted them to be joint loans, but, I refused and even though they tried to get me to pay it off, it didn't happen.

I don't regret our marriage because I have two wonderful daughters and 4 equally wonderful grandkids that I love dearly and spend as much time with as I can without being underfoot. We had many years together before her problems started to take it's toll. She passed away in 2016 broke and basically supported by the state. I paid for her burial plot and split the cost of the head stone with my kids. Many time I was asked why after being divorced by her over 15 years before her death all I could do is say... We had many happy times and we jointly raised a great family and she was my wife and I, her husband for 29 years and I wanted to know that she was taken care of. She didn't ask for the illness that forced the separation of her and her family, but, I don't ever want it forgotten that she existed and was at least half responsible for the fine family that I have supporting me and keeping me from being alone. Nothing will take those good times away and I don't want them to be taken away so let's just call it payback.

Why did I tell you this story. I told it because there is way to much hate in this world and country today and we need to take inventory on what and who was a part of the life we have now. I was lucky that I was able to pull myself up and continue to survive. She was not, but, I would never want it to be like she never existed. She did exist and because of that there will be a continuing line of humans that will affect the world, hopefully, in a positive way. That's not to mention the years she spent as a Registered Nurse and helped keep many people alive. I hate mental illness as much as some people hate cancer. It deprived the two of us a life together to the end and I think there is a good chance she would be alive today, had it not been for that illness. So living together or marriage, nothing is ever promised to be forever. Some will survive until death do us part, others will not whether we took the public vows or we didn't. Love isn't defined by a piece of paper, it comes from some internal source that hopefully goes on for a lifetime.

I spent 14 years married to a man who is mentally ill. He too is angry, paranoid, and depressed, and also abusive in every sense of the word. Over the last couple years I've learned how much strength it takes to disentangle oneself from that kind of relationship. Thanks for sharing your story, I'm glad you're doing good now and can be optimistic about love It gives me hope that I'll get there someday!

 

[Colleen27]

My issue is the bias of bankrupting the father instead of equal rights. I don't get any support when they are with me. I also have to provide a home for them while providing a home for them with their mother. I do not have the ability to provide a decent home and feed them with nutritious food. The courts make it impossible for the father. I was out of a home for 2 years and didn't see my children unless we went and sat at the mall.

I am fully for complete equal 50/50 custody and no support. I should be able to provide a home for my children with me as well.

As I said, dead-beat dads, sure. They don't care about the kids, they should be on the hook to provide for them. That is the minority though. Most fathers are trying to have a life with their children, but it's also at the expense of the children living half their lives in not so good conditions and environments because the fathers are forced to provide twice for them.

The idea of 50/50 custody with no support is super popular with the men's rights groups around me, mostly because it favors the higher wage-earner in the situation (which is still, statistically, usually the man). In my state, even when custody is evenly split there can be support ordered based on the discrepancy between the two parents' income. For example, a high school friend of mine is an executive with a major manufacturer, his ex was a SAHM and found work as a CNA after the divorce. On her income alone, she couldn't afford a two-bedroom apartment anywhere you'd be willing to walk down the street at night; even after paying support, he lives in a large house in a very affluent suburb while she rents a modest house in a working-class community. He fought hard to not have to pay support, and was totally willing to let his kid live in a neighborhood of drive-bys and gang fights 3 or 4 days a week to spite her.

It does surprise me that your state doesn't have a cap on how much money can be taken from a non-custodial parent's paycheck. Ours has a cap low enough that my support from my ex never quite managed to be even equal to the grocery bill. He struggled, but that was inevitable math - he doesn't earn much and would probably have been paycheck to paycheck even without paying any support.

 

[goofyernmost]

I spent 14 years married to a man who is mentally ill. He too is angry, paranoid, and depressed, and also abusive in every sense of the word. Over the last couple years I've learned how much strength it takes to disentangle oneself from that kind of relationship. Thanks for sharing your story, I'm glad you're doing good now and can be optimistic about love It gives me hope that I'll get there someday!

I'm 70 years old now so I really am not optimistic about love. In fact the dating that I have done since then has always ended because I started to recognize some of the warning signs that I missed the first time through. I know that in many ways it is over evaluated and even wrong, but, I cannot see myself ever wanting to even try again. When she did leave it was like twenty ton weights were lifted from my shoulders, but, that doesn't take away from the times that were good and rewarding and soft. I would think that you are much younger then I am, so I urge you not to reject things off-hand. The older you get the more alone one feels, and it is not something one would want to strive for. Keep trying to find the right person. Part of my problem was that I started looking again way to late.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't think any of the old generalizations hold up any more, if they ever really did. Successful relationships come in all sorts of legal arrangements and so do bad ones.

Personally, I wouldn't have married anyone I didn't live with first. I wouldn't have been confident in our basic compatibility without that experience of sharing space and working out a household budget together. But obviously tons of people don't share that feeling and manage to have long marriages without living together beforehand. To each their own.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

I'm 70 years old now so I really am not optimistic about love. In fact the dating that I have done since then has always ended because I started to recognize some of the warning signs that I missed the first time through. I know that in many ways it is over evaluated and even wrong, but, I cannot see myself ever wanting to even try again. When she did leave it was like twenty ton weights were lifted from my shoulders, but, that doesn't take away from the times that were good and rewarding and soft. I would think that you are much younger then I am, so I urge you not to reject things off-hand. The older you get the more alone one feels, and it is not something one would want to strive for. Keep trying to find the right person. Part of my problem was that I started looking again way to late.

The fact that you are able to open yourself up after what you went through makes you an optimist It means you have hope. I just turned 37 and I was feeling like there was no hope for me, I can't have any more kids and so I thought that I was old and used up and no one would ever want to marry me again, and you and some other people on this thread are showing me that it's not true.

Life is what we make it; I don't know if we can say that either men or women benefit from living together instead of marriage, or if men or women do better in divorce, or any of the other subjects that have been raised in this thread. I guess we all just need to make the best life that we can. Deep down I still do believe in marriage though. I have to believe that life is better with a good person by your side and that happily ever after exists.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Yes

 

[ronandannette]

I think a lot of this stuff is an issue if there are young children involved that still require support. I was married just over 29 years at the time of our divorce. In our early years we worked together to make ends meet and slowly increase our standard of living. During our marriage she managed to secure her Masters Degree in Nursing and Her masters degree in gerontology. Her ability to earn a living, education wise, far exceeded mine. Due to that situation after all those years of struggle, she decided that she no longer wanted to be married as I was "dragging her down" and I was apparently to controlling so without even a goodbye she moved out while I was at work. She took very little and asked for nothing initially. Our children were grown and married by then in fact the youngest got married just three months before she left.

Now another part of the backstory, she also had a progressive mental illness that caused her to be strongly paranoid, angry and depressed. She did not process abstract thought very well and was as literal as anyone I have ever met. There were warning signs of that before we got married, but, I was to smitten to notice them at the time. However, the sure came back to bite me later in the relationship. By the time she left, I was numb to anything that she came up with, but, I did know that she crossed that line where I could just forgive and forget. I also wanted out, so I did not contest the divorce or even attempt to fix it. The days of trying to fix were over.

Since we had a family and by then grandchildren we were occasionally at the homes of our kids at the same time. We were friendly toward each other, but, it was cold and very uncomfortable. I will admit to being hurt, but, I honestly came out better in it then she did. Because of her illness she could not keep a job and what little money we split up when we sold the house (after paying off all the debt) was gone quickly. While she was in school before the divorce her father passed away and left her 80K that she spent pursuing her Doctorate in Gerontology and also borrowed an additional 30K in student loans. She wanted them to be joint loans, but, I refused and even though they tried to get me to pay it off, it didn't happen.

I don't regret our marriage because I have two wonderful daughters and 4 equally wonderful grandkids that I love dearly and spend as much time with as I can without being underfoot. We had many years together before her problems started to take it's toll. She passed away in 2016 broke and basically supported by the state. I paid for her burial plot and split the cost of the head stone with my kids. Many time I was asked why after being divorced by her over 15 years before her death all I could do is say... We had many happy times and we jointly raised a great family and she was my wife and I, her husband for 29 years and I wanted to know that she was taken care of. She didn't ask for the illness that forced the separation of her and her family, but, I don't ever want it forgotten that she existed and was at least half responsible for the fine family that I have supporting me and keeping me from being alone. Nothing will take those good times away and I don't want them to be taken away so let's just call it payback.

Why did I tell you this story. I told it because there is way to much hate in this world and country today and we need to take inventory on what and who was a part of the life we have now. I was lucky that I was able to pull myself up and continue to survive. She was not, but, I would never want it to be like she never existed. She did exist and because of that there will be a continuing line of humans that will affect the world, hopefully, in a positive way. That's not to mention the years she spent as a Registered Nurse and helped keep many people alive. I hate mental illness as much as some people hate cancer. It deprived the two of us a life together to the end and I think there is a good chance she would be alive today, had it not been for that illness. So living together or marriage, nothing is ever promised to be forever. Some will survive until death do us part, others will not whether we took the public vows or we didn't. Love isn't defined by a piece of paper, it comes from some internal source that hopefully goes on for a lifetime.

Inspirational and humbling. Thank you.