IS IT REALLY SO HARD TO TEACH YOUR KID HOW TO BEHAVE IN A RESTAURANT?

[bethy]

For those who are recommending professional help for my child I am not going to discuss such personal things here online. I have been parenting for 14 years and have 3 children and am an EXTREMELY involved and hands on and proactive parent. I am also well educated, lest you suspect I am ignorant. This is not my first rodeo.

In my lifetime of experience I have been humbled so many times and have fallen off of plenty of horses. I have also personally experienced in multiple instances that even "getting professional help" does not handily solve all problems and tie a tidy bow around them. So many smug people refer to seeking professional help as if it were both the ultimate insult and solution. Not always so. If only it were. For may peoples' sakes.

Plus, what the professionals you recommend were to "diagnose" a child as having - gasp - "special needs"? Isn't that the ultimate cop out and a excuse for bratty behavior?? What would your recommend then? Jail? Beatings? Locking their rooms 24/7? Other?

 

[bethy]

OK, I've ignored my children long enough for now. Off to parent.

 

[Lisaloo]

For those who are recommending professional help for my child I am not going to discuss such personal things here online. I have been parenting for 14 years and have 3 children and am an EXTREMELY involved and hands on and proactive parent. I am also well educated, lest you suspect I am ignorant. This is not my first rodeo.

In my lifetime of experience I have been humbled so many times and have fallen off of plenty of horses. I have also personally experienced in multiple instances that even "getting professional help" does not handily solve all problems and tie a tidy bow around them. So many smug people refer to seeking professional help as if it were both the ultimate insult and solution. Not always so. If only it were. For may peoples' sakes.

You're the one posting details about your kid on a message board.
We are all extremely involved parents also. What you are describing is not a child misbehaving in a typical manner. This thread is about restaurant behavior and the responses are about dealing with normal behavior with normal parenting.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm travelling this weekend and parenting my challenging children and therefore not following this convo closely and so I probably shouldn't be participating. I have not made my point of view very clear. I choose NOT to take my spirited/challenging children to restaurants. Once in a while I try, hoping that as she matures it will someday be possible. If when/she acts up in ANY way - loud voice, getting up from table, etc I immediately remove her and we wait in the car for the rest of the meal. This does not faze her, fyi, but at least others are not bothered.

My personal issue is with people who look at my parenting from the outside and determine that with enough hands on parenting and with correct and consistent parenting skills my child should be able to behave in a restaurant. That my husband and I only need to squeeze her between us in a booth and take her utensils away and she will behave properly and not disturb others. That we are doing it wrong. That if we were "better" parents she would behave in a restaurant.

I think people with one child who happens to be easy will usually be quick to pass judgment. I have the perspective of having 3 kids, 2 of which are as different as night and day. I figured out a long time ago how different kids just are, so I no longer pass judgments like that.

I do however feel free to pass judgment on parents who encourage poor behavior or subject others to it in a public place (restaurant, shop, etc.).

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

For those who are recommending professional help for my child I am not going to discuss such personal things here online. I have been parenting for 14 years and have 3 children and am an EXTREMELY involved and hands on and proactive parent. I am also well educated, lest you suspect I am ignorant. This is not my first rodeo.

In my lifetime of experience I have been humbled so many times and have fallen off of plenty of horses. I have also personally experienced in multiple instances that even "getting professional help" does not handily solve all problems and tie a tidy bow around them. So many smug people refer to seeking professional help as if it were both the ultimate insult and solution. Not always so. If only it were. For may peoples' sakes.

Plus, what the professionals you recommend were to "diagnose" a child as having - gasp - "special needs"? Isn't that the ultimate cop out and a excuse for bratty behavior?? What would your recommend then? Jail? Beatings? Locking their rooms 24/7? Other?

Hey, I understand. Not because I have one of those children, but I was one of those children. I responded to no consequences. I would literally scream my head off, spit food, climbed out of the crib, threw bottles, the whole gamut of awful.

Thank goodness my parents weren't too high strung, because they probably would have just beaten me senseless and I'd have years of therapy and ill will.

There's nothing clinically wrong with me and I managed to turn into a pretty decent adult. Childhood was just my difficult stage.

Folks on this board will have you believe that bad children lead to bad adults. Sometimes that's true but sometimes kids just struggle and sometimes perfect respectful children turn into dreadful adults.

So much "I'm better than you" and "x would NEVER happen with me, because I actually parent." Sheesh!

 

[worm761]

I'm travelling this weekend and parenting my challenging children and therefore not following this convo closely and so I probably shouldn't be participating. I have not made my point of view very clear. I choose NOT to take my spirited/challenging children to restaurants. Once in a while I try, hoping that as she matures it will someday be possible. If when/she acts up in ANY way - loud voice, getting up from table, etc I immediately remove her and we wait in the car for the rest of the meal. This does not faze her, fyi, but at least others are not bothered.

My personal issue is with people who look at my parenting from the outside and determine that with enough hands on parenting and with correct and consistent parenting skills my child should be able to behave in a restaurant. That my husband and I only need to squeeze her between us in a booth and take her utensils away and she will behave properly and not disturb others. That we are doing it wrong. That if we were "better" parents she would behave in a restaurant.

Not true. I know because I am in the trenches first hand with a child for whom " a little extra effort" does NOTHING. It takes moving the Earth, Moon, Stars and heavens just to get through a regular day without casualties. And we DO THAT. We don't sit back because that is absolutely NOT an option. No way is it ever worth it to add a restaurant on top of that.

There is a HUGE difference in parents that parent and parents that ignore the behavior. If your kid is acting up and you are actively doing something about it, GREAT! If, on the other hand, your child, regardless of diagnosis or special needs, is being a nightmare and you are ignoring it, THAT is an issue.

I get difficult kids. Really, I do. DS19 has Autism. I've left restaurants mid-meal when I was a single mom. I've left grocery carts full of groceries at the customer service desk and carried my kicking kid out of the store. I have pulled him off shelves and out of other people's carts. All while apologizing. He could not help it. But that didn't mean that the rest of the world needed to deal with MY kid. I did and I did it at home. Not out in public.

Now, I also have a perfectly normal DD. We've walked the restaurant when she's been rambunctious. I carry colored pencils that don't roll in my purse and always paper. I have kids mode on my cell phone. I almost always have a book for her to look at/read. She's 5 and acts like a typical 5 year old. She's well behaved. I'm always amazed when complimented on her behavior. It seems to me that someone should say something to the parents of the disruptive kids rather than the well behaved ones.

Back when I still worked, I had no issues telling kids what to do and not do in my restaurant. Only once did I have a parent say something negative. I very politely told her she could get her kid off my counter or she could leave my restaurant. She opted to get her kid off my counter. If only society would say something to these parents we might just see parents start parenting again. Kids don't have to be perfect but they do need direction from the adults in charge of them.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

You are the childish one here.

That's right. I forgot. The word brat is not to be used anymore.

Children that don't listen and run around in restaurants are to be referred to as "spirited".

I agree with the posters who say that they teach their children table manners at home and it just carries right over to a restaurant setting. When I see a child playing tag in a restaurant or running around or screaming, I know that they are not taught manners at home.

And when I see children misbehaving and their parents aren't mortified or in shock, I know that is normal behavior for that child. They got away with it the first time and now it is commonplace.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

So much "I'm better than you" and "x would NEVER happen with me, because I actually parent." Sheesh!

I promise that me sitting in a restaurant and encouraging my child to drum with the silverware would NEVER have happened. I promise you that me sitting with a friend, engaging in deep conversation while my children were running around a restaurant would NEVER have happened. What kind of person allows their child to act like this?

 

[Christine]

I'm responding to Turn The Page about consistent use of table manners, dining at home or dining out. I'm trying to word this so it won't turn into a book.

DD #1 was taught table manners at home (not playing with utensils, not eating with hands, etc). She picked up on these pretty quickly. When we went out, at age 1 or 2 she might have taken a shine to the bigger spoon, or different weight of the utensils and tried to play with them. We removed them from her hand and told her no. She quit and moved on to other things.

DS #2 came along and we did the same things with him. He responded much the same way at home, taking direction quite well. We took him out to dinner. Wow, was he excited. Loved all the people, the noise, etc. And got very excited himself. Got to the utensils, picked them up then proceeded to drop them everywhere. He was reprimanded and utensils removed. Given back, more antics, and so on. I am VERY MUCH summarizing what actually occurred but you must get the picture. He was an entirely different beast when he went out--easily stimulated. This carried on in many places. For instance, at home he could sit quietly and read books with me and have a nice story time. In Kindergarten, I saw a video of story time and he was rolling around on the rug rather than sitting still. He just got very stimulated with people and crowds and could not contain himself. Believe it or not, he's a 20 y/o know who behaves just fine. But what I do see in his 20 y/o self is some agitation and nervousness with large groups which I would say is a form of anxiety. He has the skills to cope now, he didn't at age 2.

The best move I made was for him just not to go to restaurants when it wasn't necessary. Not until he was better able to handle himself. This did not mean we weren't teaching it at home. We were. We really didn't have a different set of rules and instructions for the second child.

 

[Hutchy]

Recently we went to IHOP for lunch and there was a child at the table behind us who decided to do this exact thing. The mom thought it was adorable and took a video. After about 5 minutes our ears were ringing and my boyfriend very calmly and politely turned around and said "hey guys, do you mind, that's annoying and hurting our ears". They did stop the child but apparently it greatly insulted them and when they got up to leave we were informed that we were "Incredibly rude" and "children just do stuff like that" and "we need to work things out before we have kids". We quickly informed her that we did not plan to have kids and we stood by the fact that it was hurting our ears. I was blown away that they would actually be that upset when we were very polite about it.

Our waitress saw the interaction and asked what happened when the people walked away and we explained and she went off on inconsiderate parents and terrible children lol

 

[Christine]

I'm responding to Turn The Page about consistent use of table manners, dining at home or dining out. I'm trying to word this so it won't turn into a book.

DD #1 was taught table manners at home (not playing with utensils, not eating with hands, etc). She picked up on these pretty quickly. When we went out, at age 1 or 2 she might have taken a shine to the bigger spoon, or different weight of the utensils and tried to play with them. We removed them from her hand and told her no. She quit and moved on to other things.

DS #2 came along and we did the same things with him. He responded much the same way at home, taking direction quite well. We took him out to dinner. Wow, was he excited. Loved all the people, the noise, etc. And got very excited himself. Got to the utensils, picked them up then proceeded to drop them everywhere. He was reprimanded and utensils removed. Given back, more antics, and so on. I am VERY MUCH summarizing what actually occurred but you must get the picture. He was an entirely different beast when he went out--easily stimulated. This carried on in many places. For instance, at home he could sit quietly and read books with me and have a nice story time. In Kindergarten, I saw a video of story time and he was rolling around on the rug rather than sitting still. He just got very stimulated with people and crowds and could not contain himself. Believe it or not, he's a 20 y/o know who behaves just fine. But what I do see in his 20 y/o self is some agitation and nervousness with large groups which I would say is a form of anxiety. He has the skills to cope now, he didn't at age 2.

The best move I made was for him just not to go to restaurants when it wasn't necessary. Not until he was better able to handle himself. This did not mean we weren't teaching it at home. We were. We really didn't have a different set of rules and instructions for the second child.

Unbelievable. You can't even MAKE these people see they are wrong.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I have been reading this thread and for quite some time was very confused. Many people seem to think how kids act in restaurants is somehow different than how they behave during meal time at home. I couldn't figure out how some posters were making comments about how they couldn't control their kids in restaurants and therefore didn't take them. It just really makes me wonder if you couldn't control them in a restaurant how did you control them at home?

I never considered table manners in a restaurant to be any different than table manners used at home. The reason I have not ever taken my 5 year old stepdaughter to a restaurant is because her table manners were absolutely horrendous and she is one of those "difficult" kids as some of you so eloquently put it. It has taken nearly 2 years of working on it at home every single day to get her to stop combing her hair with her fork, playing with her silverware and plate rather than eating, playing with her food, dancing around in her chair, trying to get up and walk around the room, cramming her mouth so full of food she nearly choked, pitching a fit if she didn't get the exact plate she wanted, and eating her meal in something less than an hour because she spent way too much time dinking around rather than eating. She is a kid, her table manners are not perfect and there are some things we are still working on. However, I would never take her to a restaurant until she could model acceptable behavior at home. If she can't do it at home she can't do it in a restaurant and there was no way I was going to subject fellow diners to that.

I guess my main point is I consider table manners to be table manners whether you are at home or at a restaurant. You don't teach table manners and restaurant behavior at a restaurant. You teach it at home. You practice at home. Then you try at a restaurant.

And you certainly don't just throw up your hands and say I can't control my kid, hopefully he will grow out of it.

Exactly^^^ Same with us.

I remember a few years ago when my three were acting like jungle animals at the dinner table one night. Putting food on each other's plates, making gross noises, the 12 year old eating salad with his hands, instigating the younger ones to do the same, all three kept trying to poke and tickle each other to make their sibling spit out their drink. I looked right at them and let it be known that if this is how they act at a table, then they were going to practice their manners every single night until they remembered them before I even thought about taking them our to eat again. And this, from 3 kids who have been going out to eat since birth and know how to behave at a table! They were oh, about 12, 8, and 6 at the time. Maybe a little older, maybe a little younger. Definitely old enough to know better. And we didn't go out, for a long time. Darned if I am going to spend my money on kids who don't know how to behave! And they knew that I would be livid if they ever embarrassed me like that in front of people.

Same thing for all other things too. Parenting starts at home and kids are going to act the same way away from home than they do inside the house. If they rummage through the cupboards at home, they will at grandmas. If they climb all over the furniture at home, they will at someone else's house too. If they are allowed to scream and act like crazy people at home, they will wherever they are at. It's easy to get a good sense of how a kid will behave, just watch how they act at home! It shouldn't come as a surprise to any parent that their kids are uncontrollable in public if they cannot even control their behaviour at home.

**As always, special needs cases excluded.

ETA: after reading through the rest of the posts, I do have to say that I believe that some kids are just wired to act up no matter what, but I stand by my belief that if they are acting up at home, they will act up in public, too, so it really shouldn't come to a shocking surprise to any parent that their kid acts like a maniac at home and is hard to discipline, will do the same at the store or in a restaurant.

 

[worm761]

Exactly^^^ Same with us.

It's easy to get a good sense of how a kid will behave, just watch how they act at home! It shouldn't come as a surprise to any parent that their kids are uncontrollable in public if they cannot even control their behaviour at home.

**As always, special needs cases excluded.

I laughed at this. DD is MUCH better behaved in public than at home. Not that she is a terror or anything. Funny thing is, getting her to pick up her toys is like pulling teeth. There is so much drama and many tears. Go over to a friend's house and she refuses to leave until every single toy is picked up and put away!

 

[dennis99ss]

Just fyi, some kids behave. Before v and a instituted an age limit, out two boys went multiple times. First time was about 16-18 months. Never had a problem. And, the same waiter waitress pair are still there and still talk about the well behaved kids.

So, yes, it is about parents controlling, and teaching, and exposing them to situations where they must behave.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

I laughed at this. DD is MUCH better behaved in public than at home. Not that she is a terror or anything. Funny thing is, getting her to pick up her toys is like pulling teeth. There is so much drama and many tears. Go over to a friend's house and she refuses to leave until every single toy is picked up and put away!

Haha, I should have added the rest of my theory too, then:

A well-behaved, disciplined kid will usually act BETTER in public then they do at home! I know my kids do!!!! Super polite, respectful, eager to help....yet at home, they whine about being pulled away from their phones, cry about doing the dishes, and god forbid we ask them to put their own laundry away!

 

[pweyl36]

That's right. I forgot. The word brat is not to be used anymore.

Children that don't listen and run around in restaurants are to be referred to as "spirited".

I agree with the posters who say that they teach their children table manners at home and it just carries right over to a restaurant setting. When I see a child playing tag in a restaurant or running around or screaming, I know that they are not taught manners at home.

And when I see children misbehaving and their parents aren't mortified or in shock, I know that is normal behavior for that child. They got away with it the first time and now it is commonplace.

Brat is a word not used??? since when?

 

[pweyl36]

Haha, I should have added the rest of my theory too, then:

A well-behaved, disciplined kid will usually act BETTER in public then they do at home! I know my kids do!!!! Super polite, respectful, eager to help....yet at home, they whine about being pulled away from their phones, cry about doing the dishes, and god forbid we ask them to put their own laundry away!

Same here.

 

[First timer]

They can struggle, but then they need to be the parent and remove the child from the restaurant so that the rest of the patrons don't have to deal with the annoyance. And if the child simply can not behave, then you don't go out. That's being a parent. When you have kids, sorry, things change.

I totally agree with you LilyWDW.

My eldest daughter had awful temper tantrums (thanks to grandma!). It took a lot of work and patience to get her to behave properly and respectfully and during that time - we did not take her to restaurants nor did we take her out to any stores (i.e., department stores, mall, etc). I absolutely would not subject others to her unpleasant behavior. It is rude and inconsiderate to expect others to deal with ones unruly children. Once she learned how to behave and to be considerate of others we were able to go everywhere with no scenes.

 

[Lisaloo]

Brat is a word not used??? since when?

Some moms get extremely offended by the word brat. Years ago DD(then 5) was being a beast at a birthday party. I took her out of the pool and we went to the clubhouse to sit for a while and either calm down or leave. She screamed at me "it's not fair I have to leave the party" so I calmly told her "it wouldn't be fair for the kids and parents to have to be around you when you are behaving like such a brat." Another mother overheard me and told me in front of my daughter that I shouldn't say such hateful things. Lol. I smiled and told her to worry about her own unruly kids and leave me to handle mine. My daughter wasn't being spirited or head strong, she was being a brat.

 

[lustergirl]

Two of my three children are like this. Your sons deserve just as much credit as you do.

Not every child is like this. They just aren't. Until you have tirelessly parented one of these other children for years on end you absolutely cannot claim to know what will work for every child. Period!!

Oh I know what will work but nowadays it is probably considered child abuse.