Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[mamamia2005]

Indeed. It is a very serious accusation. Which makes it a very serious wrong for the couple to accuse a member of the royal family of saying that without naming names. This way, the entire royal family is put under the shadow of racism, because they're now all under suspicion, since they won't name names. I think this was Meghan's intention: it hurts more people this way.

Yes it has cast quite a shadow.

They could always say it was Camilla or Andrew as they aren't overly popular anyway!

 

[Cheburashka]

And he was the "fun" prince. People Mag loved him.

Yeah, he was the fun one going to a party in a Nazi uniform, and calling a fellow soldier "our little Paki friend". And now preaching about how the rest of his family is racist, unlike him...

 

[Disneylover99]

Ok, the other thing that I don’t think has been touched on yet in this thread (or maybe I missed it) is the jealousy issue.

M&H said there were no issues with the Royals until after they returned from their first tour (in Australia) in October 2018, after almost 6 months into their marriage.

They said jealousy arose because Megan was so down to Earth and she was such a natural with the people and that caused friction in the firm. And Harry compared it to his mother’s first experience on tour saying the royals were jealous of her connection with the people.

But those were different times, and it was Charles who felt slighted at the time. He didn’t have the charm or warmth that Diana had.

So this is what I don’t understand?
Who would be jealous?
Harry? No.
Kate? Doubtful. She had already long established a connection with the people.

 

[mamamia2005]

Yeah, he was the fun one going to a party in a Nazi uniform, and calling a teammate "my little Paki friend". And now preaching about how the rest of his family is racist, unlike him...

But Meghan wouldn't know about any of that as she didn't have a scooby who Harry was or knew anything about the royal family

 

[andyman8]

Indeed. It is a very serious accusation. Which makes it a very serious wrong for the couple to accuse a member of the royal family of saying that without naming names. This way, the entire royal family is put under the shadow of racism, because they're now all under suspicion, since they won't name names. I think this was Meghan's intention: it hurts more people this way.

That's really their decision though, not yours or mine. The fact that it was said in that circle is the problem, not who in particular said it. Frankly, if those concerns were erred in that circle, it demonstrates a level of complicity with/acceptance of those type of undertones, regardless of who said it. That's the real problem. If racism were just a problem with one guy in any institution, the racism in that institution would "die off" when that guy dies off or left. Based on history, we know that's not how it works. Institutional racism often outlives any one person because it is embedded into the institution itself. Again, I think people are nitpicking to try to avoid the larger problem. And no, the Royal Family is not the only institution in the world with institutional racism but that doesn't make it okay.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm sure MM believes everything she says. I'm willing to bet she could even pass a lie detector test. Megs is always the victim. EVERYBODY else is the problem. Notice a pattern?

I do believe Harry and Meghan feel they are justified in their opinions. Unfortunately their account of the problems they faced were heavy on how things made them feel, and very short on factual details. There is such a thing as getting stuck on your perspective and in your feelings. Considering how polished and carefully considered the presentation was, despite attempts to suggest they had no idea what the topics would be and that Oprah was acting as an impartial journalist, the lack of factual details was a big reason I do not find them credible. The oh so curated presentation they put on absolutely everything also damages their credibility in my eyes. The fact they also admit to no missteps, accept no responsibility for anything and present themselves as always goodhearted or naive also doesn't pass muster with me.

I don't doubt they faced some legitimate problems in regards to racism, classism and nationalism overall. It was obvious from the outset there would be some hurdles. I was optimistic that they were both old enough and experienced enough to go into things with their eyes wide open and a solid base of a good relationship and they would win over most detractors. I seriously underestimated Harry having a multitude of issues. On that scale I don't think Meghan is an asset to helping Harry deal with his issues in a healthy way. Hopefully in other aspects they are a good match and will be able to build a happy life for themselves and their children, and possibly grow and learn in the aspects where they struggle.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

No, I didn't hate Diana at all. Diana didn't suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, which Meghan apparently does, which causes her to lie, play victim, and hold grudges to such a pathetic and destructive extent.

I don't hate Meghan, either. I don't like her, but hate is a strong feeling that I do not have towards her or any other human being. I do hate what she is doing, though. She is purposefully and selfishly causing a lot of destruction.

Unless you are a medical professional who has treated Meghan personally, don't speculate on any diagnosis. It's disrespectful and harmful in many ways.

 

[Cheburashka]

That's really their decision though, not yours or mine.

It is completely immoral to level serious accusations without giving the accused the chance to defend themselves. That is not a matter of opinion. It's as much a moral wrong as racism is.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I am aware that can be a problem, and it is ugly. It's even caused strife, wars and genocide on the African continent without the interracial component.
As I said, I've been at gatherings of family and in discussions with close friends where there was speculation about who an expected baby might look like. It was absolutely not out of concern or valuing skin tone -- merely curiosity about how the genetics would play out.

I have a cousin with three children, two of which have darker skin. One of those children and the child with lighter skin have dark brown eyes, while the other child with darker skin has greenish blue eyes. Two have more afro type hair, one more similar to maternal grandpa. Another cousin was also in an interracial marriage (now divorced) and both of his children take more after their mother's looks, including darker skin. If you had family members write comments on slips of paper about each kid without naming the kid and then played guess who this is about, you'd be trying to pick up clues based upon if the comment mentioned gender or mentioned a specific talent or interest, because I don't think you'd get comments about skin tone or looks. BTW, the conversations about what the unborn babies might look like came from family members on both sides, chatting with each other and speculating together. Everybody was excited there was another baby on the way. It wasn't really much different than the conversations in my husband's mother's extended family, who are always dying to know who's going to be the next redhead in the family.

They both, separately, relayed that the conversations took place as “concerns over how dark Archie may be and how that would look for the royal family.” Harry said he was ‘surprised’ it happened. It doesn’t sound like a cheerful conversation wondering if the new bundle will have Dad’s red hair.

 

[andyman8]

It is completely immoral to level serious accusations without giving the accused the chance to defend themselves. That is not a matter of opinion. It's as much a moral wrong as racism is.

Yeah, not at all. Also interesting that you chose not to respond to the rest of my post.

 

[snappy]

Yeah, he was the fun one going to a party in a Nazi uniform, and calling a teammate "my little Paki friend". And now preaching about how the rest of his family is racist, unlike him...

Yes, and as was said upthread about the racist comments about Archie, “You can choose to be skeptical of the claim, but if it was indeed said, that's a big problem” also applies to Harry’s “my little Paki friend.”

 

[TLSnell1981]

Charlotte and Louis are titled Princess and Prince.

ETA: And this is where my confusion lies. I thought only the oldest child, George, would have the title of Prince until Charles took the throne, then the titles could be given to his siblings. Am I understanding this correctly, at least how it’s normally supposed to work if the queen hadn’t made an exception to give them these titles?

My understanding it’s all of the children of the oldest son (now it’s or daughter) of the POW.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I have never been one to really follow the Royal Family, so I certainly don't know the ins and outs like many on here do.

What I find interesting though, is the majority of the posters on this thread don't like anything that Harry and Megan have said and done. I watched two talk shows today (both in the USA) and they were 100% behind Harry and Megan. One of the shows (Daily Blast Live) did a survey with a ticker on the bottom of the screen whether they were "team Harry of Megan" or "team Royal Family". it was something like 80% of Harry and Megan and 20% Royal family. From reading the comments on here, I just assumed it would be the opposite.

Which how I said it would be. I haven't seen the vitriol towards them anyplace like it is on here. It is overwhelmingly in support of them.

It is completely immoral to level serious accusations without giving the accused the chance to defend themselves. That is not a matter of opinion. It's as much a moral wrong as racism is.

They can defend themselves. Making a choice not to because of honor, code, appearance, etc is one they can make. But don't act like the RF has been silenced. That's disingenuous.

And no, it is not comparable to racism. But with that statement you have said so much.

 

[cabanafrau]

There is a difference between quiet speculation and "concerns" (which was the word that was used) about the potential complexions of your child's skin. Personally, I think even those type of questions are best kept to yourself. But either way, you're going tho have a tough time convincing me that there aren't racist undertones in those "concerns." You can choose to be skeptical of the claim, but if it was indeed said, that's a big problem.

That's just it, it was framed as "concerns" without any context. Harry seems to have a very short fuse and a very sensitive trigger regarding anything and everything to do with Meghan and/or Archie. He had no problems, nor was he too trapped or silenced by "the Firm" when he issued a very hard line stance with the media regarding their coverage of Meghan right after the relationship was announced.

Notably the interview began with questions about the often repeated tale about Meghan making Kate cry. Meghan had no problem serenely claiming she forgave Kate the real villain for making her cry.

Notably Meghan gets what Meghan wants was absolutely not asked about. Nor was the rumored dust up between the brothers when William suggested proceeding slowly so Meghan could have her eyes wide open to what living the life of a royal would really mean.

I don't find it impossible to believe that something was discussed with Harry regarding what his future child might look like that in fact didn't come from a context of concern or a big ole dose of racism. People can discuss that without any malice in their heart. What was actually said is important. It's especially important when it's reported by people who are busily building a brand for themselves, one built on shaping public opinion. It can't be overlooked that it's also relayed from someone who has a very short fuse and a very sensitive trigger regarding his wife and child in particular -- and who it seems has quite a chip on his shoulder about what his rank is in the family firm. Nope, you want to level that kind of charge, you give the facts, all of them, to the best of your ability -- not your characterization of comments.

 

[EMom]

If you can find it, watch a (sort of) reality show called I Wanna Marry "Harry." It features a Harry lookalike, who doesn't SAY he's Harry, but from the fact that they're at an amazing estate and hints are dropped, the bachelorettes are meant to believe he is THE Harry and compete for a possible proposal. It's been years, but I think one girl figured out speedy quick he was not THE Harry, and she was booted off before she could enlighten the others. How they found that many American girls who had not a clue was beyond me. I'm pretty sure Meghan would have known he was a fake from the get go.

Of all the tidbits from the interview, the one that had me gobsmacked was Harry's whining about being cut off financially once they were no longer senior working royals. He and Meghan were sitting on anywhere from $25-$40 MILLION dollars and clearly had the potential to make hundreds of millions more, and he acts as if he's been put on the street with $5. Cry me a river. With all that has been going on in the world for the past year, that seemed rather tone deaf. If you're not holding up your end of public duties, you can't really expect your family to financially support you, especially when you're pushing 40.

 

[andyman8]

That's just it, it was framed as "concerns" without any context. Harry seems to have a very short fuse and a very sensitive trigger regarding anything and everything to do with Meghan and/or Archie. He had no problems, nor was he too trapped or silenced by "the Firm" when he issued a very hard line stance with the media regarding their coverage of Meghan right after the relationship was announced.

Notably the interview began with questions about the often repeated tale about Meghan making Kate cry. Meghan had no problem serenely claiming she forgave Kate the real villain for making her cry.

Notably Meghan gets what Meghan wants was absolutely not asked about. Nor was the rumored dust up between the brothers when William suggested proceeding slowly so Meghan could have her eyes wide open to what living the life of a royal would really mean.

I don't find it impossible to believe that something was discussed with Harry regarding what his future child might look like that in fact didn't come from a context of concern or a big ole dose of racism. People can discuss that without any malice in their heart. What was actually said is important. It's especially important when it's reported by people who are busily building a brand for themselves, one built on shaping public opinion. It can't be overlooked that it's also relayed from someone who has a very short fuse and a very sensitive trigger regarding his wife and child in particular -- and who it seems has quite a chip on his shoulder about what his rank is in the family firm. Nope, you want to level that kind of charge, you give the facts, all of them, to the best of your ability -- not your characterization of comments.

But who are you to dictate the terms on which an allegation like that is allowed? I don't find those terms anywhere near as offensive as the contents of the allegation itself (and the allegation was specifically about concerns). You can choose not to believe it, but I don't find it hard at all to believe that a centuries-old family -- especially given the history of the monarchy -- might have some racist undertones within. It's not about getting rid of the institution; it's about that institution learning, evolving, and growing to get with the times. This is Harry and Meghan's side of the story; the Royals have had their opportunity to share their side as well. There is good that can come out of all of this but people need to stop vilifying each other, getting overly-defensive, and actually look at how to solve the problem.

 

[snappy]

If you can find it, watch a (sort of) reality show called I Wanna Marry "Harry." It features a Harry lookalike, who doesn't SAY he's Harry, but from the fact that they're at an amazing estate and hints are dropped, the bachelorettes are meant to believe he is THE Harry and compete for a possible proposal. It's been years, but I think one girl figured out speedy quick he was not THE Harry, and she was booted off before she could enlighten the others. How they found that many American girls who had not a clue was beyond me. I'm pretty sure Meghan would have known he was a fake from the get go.

Of all the tidbits from the interview, the one that had me gobsmacked was Harry's whining about being cut off financially once they were no longer senior working royals. He and Meghan were sitting on anywhere from $25-$40 MILLION dollars and clearly had the potential to make hundreds of millions more, and he acts as if he's been put on the street with $5. Cry me a river. With all that has been going on in the world for the past year, that seemed rather tone deaf. If you're not holding up your end of public duties, you can't really expect your family to financially support you, especially when you're pushing 40.

Particularly right at this point when millions all over the world are scrambling to feed and shelter families.

 

[snappy]

But who are you to dictate the terms on which an allegation like that is allowed? I don't find those terms anywhere near as offensive as the contents of the allegation itself (and the allegation was specifically about concerns). You can choose not to believe it, but I don't find it hard at all to believe that a centuries-old family -- especially given the history of the monarchy -- might have some racist undertones within. It's not about getting rid of the institution; it's about that institution learning, evolving, and growing to get with the times. This is Harry and Meghan's side of the story; the Royals have had their opportunity to share their side as well. There is good that can come out of all of this but people need to stop vilifying each other, getting overly-defensive, and actually look at how to solve the problem.

So you are saying the RF is guilty of racism until proven innocent? Court of public opinion?

 

[andyman8]

So you are saying the RF is guilty of racism until proven innocent? Court of public opinion?

Well, there’s not really a legal court to try racism.
In a perfect world, there should be an independent investigation of the allegation and any related allegations of racism. I’m not sure if that type of mechanism exists. But based on my personal opinion, the contents of the allegation itself would not surprise me. Is that a problem to say?

 

[mamamia2005]

It's just about to start here in the UK