Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[mamamia2005]

Oprah asked if you had got the support, would you still be there with the family. They answered absolutely yes.
So what were the discussions for 2 years about before that statement in January 2020?

 

[TLSnell1981]

Meghan is the perpetual victim. If she isn’t front and center or have every whim catered to...life is hell for everyone around her. She is very needy. Harry needs to protect his “mother” and MM plays him like a fiddle. It’s really a sad and unhealthy relationship in my opinion. Guess it fulfills some need for Harry. I don’t know but it is odd. I truly feel sorry for their kids and the rest of the family. It’s difficult living with untreated mental illness. Hoping MM is getting the mental health care she needs. It doesn’t appear to be the case.

 

[Tink-osophy]

I get what you're saying, but do people in the UK really believe that you do "know the details first-hand"?

Fair question. You'd have to say Brits know far more, at least, than Americans, to be able to put this whole thing into some kind of more balanced context.

You don't have to be sure of every word or to believe what you're told.

Many aspects of the RF are part of the fabric of the country and regularly part of the calendar - you see it and live it. You experience it all more directly. Similarly Americans know much more about American presidents, and politics (as an example) to make more balanced assessments than foreigners could. (Balanced is the best we usually get, as opposed to pure objective truth.)

Personally, I don't think I know either side well enough to be sure of that pure truth (and I've said that throughout). My doubts are based on the way that this whole interview has been presented and on several of their previous, very public, actions in the past. There are holes in their arguments that don't rely on believing 'the other side's' word. I'm just here to chat about those doubts.

It's important to know what you don't know, sure , but that works from all sides.

Or, do you know what the Monarchy wants you to know?

...Ditto for Meghan and Harry!

Like I said, this isn't about just believing one side's word over another. What helps is having experience of their public actions (all persons involved) over time and some knowledge of the workings of the Monarchy (like title bestowal).

Americans know more about America; Brits know more about the UK. ...Not everything, but enough to see a bigger picture.

 

[cabanafrau]

Oprah asked if you had got the support, would you still be there with the family. They answered absolutely yes.
So what were the discussions for 2 years about before that statement in January 2020?

Absolutely yes if they had gotten support, from the family who had "concerns" that were racist and hurtful about their child? What does support for that look like? Perhaps the offender or offenders should have been chucked out? If the offenders weren't chucked out, I wonder what support would they have deemed acceptable to stay?

 

[person]

Actually it was Harry, who currently (and perhaps implausibly) claims to have withdrawn from public life, who a number of years ago was photographed dressed in a Nazi uniform, promptly causing one of the Commonwealth governments to begin moves to become a republic.

He maybe needs to search his own soul before he (ever less plausibly claiming to want to be out of public life) opens his mouth to the media.

 

[neverlandsky]

Actually it was Harry, who currently (and perhaps implausibly) claims to have withdrawn from public life, who a number of years ago was photographed dressed in a Nazi uniform, promptly causing one of the Commonwealth governments to begin moves to become a republic.

He maybe needs to search his own soul before he (ever less plausibly claiming to want to be out of public life) opens his mouth to the media.

Don't forget Harry grabs the crown jewels in Vegas.

 

[cabanafrau]

Meghan specified it happened while she was pregnant and Harry said “early on,” in the context of “What will the (as yet not conceived) children look like?” Meghan did make a point to say there were several conversations about it, so it’s possible both are correct about the timing.

That definitely seems more than enough to go on to point the finger at William. Sure, that seems like a completely appropriate, fair and equitable way to reach a logical conclusion. It's not at all likely that William cares at all about the only other person in the world who understands and shares childhood experiences with him, the special happy private memories as a family, and the horrifically low ones that must have been beyond painful. Oh wait, the heir felt no pain ever, only the spare.

 

[snappy]

So Meghan and Harry are talking about the fact they were talking about Megxit for 2 years ... that would would mean they were talking about it within weeks of becoming engaged!

Pillow talk, early on!

 

[cabanafrau]

Hence her exit from her family. Hence M&H exit from The Royal Family.



A huge opportunity has been missed by The Royal Family by remaining silent on multiple occasions. Granted the press is beneath them and it doesn't warrant a response. Unfortunately by remaining silent they unintentionally have condoned it and enabled it. The Queen's speech with the unity emphasis came a bit too late. There should of been a zero tolerance right out the gate before M&H were engaged. Not after. M&H accusation of racism isn't all that far-reaching. So again, hard to deny M&H racism claims as false when past behaviors of those within the ranks of The Royal Family reflect otherwise.

Nice pivot. They didn't leave the family because of the racist jewelry, that was at least two years prior. I still fail to see how an extended member of the family showing up to an event with a racist brooch indicts the family as a whole as racist? Since H & M stayed in the fold after the wearing of the racist jewelry shouldn't they be called out as racists as well? If that's the criteria to call out everyone in the family, they would presumably be included. That's absurd.

 

[TLSnell1981]

That definitely seems more than enough to go on to point the finger at William. Sure, that seems like a completely appropriate, fair and equitable way to reach a logical conclusion. It's not at all likely that William cares at all about the only other person in the world who understands and shares childhood experiences with him, the special happy private memories as a family, and the horrifically low ones that must have been beyond painful. Oh wait, the heir felt no pain ever, only the spare.

FWIW-Allegedly the comment was made by the wife of the couple H&M wanted to move out of Kensington Palace to make room for them. I had assumed it was Princess Michael of Kent but may have been the Duchess of Gloucester.

 

[cabanafrau]

FWIW-Allegedly the comment was made by the wife of the couple H&M wanted to move out of Kinsington Palace to make room for them. I had assumed it was Princess Michael of Kent but may have been the Duchess of Gloucester.

Who is now pointing the finger at someone specific as being responsible for making the comment, H & M? That's not the kind of charge you level at someone through anonymous sources.

 

[mousefan73]

That

Don't forget Harry grabs the crown jewels in Vegas.

OMG thanks for putting that image back in my head.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Who is now pointing the finger at someone specific as being responsible for making the comment, H & M? That's not the kind of charge you level at someone through anonymous sources.

Its been reported. It's all I'm saying. I have no clue in what context the comment was supposedly made. I only know it hasn't been attributed to William.

 

[neverlandsky]

Nice pivot. They didn't leave the family because of the racist jewelry, that was at least two years prior. I still fail to see how an extended member of the family showing up to an event with a racist brooch indicts the family as a whole as racist? Since H & M stayed in the fold after the wearing of the racist jewelry shouldn't they be called out as racists as well? If that's the criteria to call out everyone in the family, they would presumably be included. That's absurd.

It was an example of racism happening within the royal ranks of the family. You don't just throw out accusations of racism because it feels good. Silence is complicity.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

That definitely seems more than enough to go on to point the finger at William. Sure, that seems like a completely appropriate, fair and equitable way to reach a logical conclusion. It's not at all likely that William cares at all about the only other person in the world who understands and shares childhood experiences with him, the special happy private memories as a family, and the horrifically low ones that must have been beyond painful. Oh wait, the heir felt no pain ever, only the spare.

I’m not saying I think it was William. I’m saying the whole thing starts to make more sense if you consider that there may have been more to that conversation than we previously knew. Until now, it’s been portrayed as Harry having had an extreme reaction to William’s reasonable advice and the beginning of the disintegration of their previously close relationship. If you plunk this new info into the narrative, and consider that conversation may have been one of race-based “concerns” for how Harry’s future children could reflect poorly on the monarchy, his strong reaction and the subsequent falling out with his brother would make more sense. That said, I don’t personally *think* it was William — or Charles, or Beatrice, or anyone in particular — because it’s complete speculation and I don’t have enough evidence to point a finger at any of them with any level of certainty. H&M intentionally left it vague in order to spare that person’s (maybe multiple?) reputation while still giving enough info so the viewers would have a better understanding of what they were dealing with behind the scenes,

 

[Tink-osophy]

I noticed an American journalist writing about his idea of the differences between American and British attitudes towards British royals (past and present) and his article relied heavily on stereotypes and incorrect assumptions.

For example, he assumes that most of the country disliked Harry for his antics in Vegas. I haven't found that (or much else he wrote) to be true. Most I know have long loved Harry for his more down-to-earth and playful nature, even when he has been more wild.

Newspapers aren't really helping from either side! No surprise! And the stereotype of Brits all being tweed-wearing, tea-drinking, older than their years, unable to talk about their feelings, mini versions of the aristocracy are so far from the normal, day-to-day truth!

ETA: He also underestimates the differences between Meghan and Diana, and tries to compare, again inaccurately. The RF was just as unpopular in the UK during Diana's time with them and, then, apart from them, for how they treated her. She was always loved by the majority and the Queen, especially, has had to work hard to regain respect and affection since.

I can imagine Americans liking the idea of another Diana - especially an "American Diana" - and might assume if there is backlash against Meghan it must mean Brits didn't love Diana, too. That's just not true. They are/were two very different individuals. Diana genuinely became a 'princess' and gave a huge amount to the UK.

 

[RamblingMad]

This is mildly entertaining. Nothing ever good happens when royals leave the UK and come over here. Lots of scandals. We'll learn more a long time from now.

 

[TLSnell1981]

...

This is mildly entertaining. Nothing ever good happens when royals leave the UK and come over here. Lots of scandals. We'll learn more a long time from now.

Markle and Simpson sure haven't helped the perception of Americans for the British or the rest of the world.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Absolutely yes if they had gotten support, from the family who had "concerns" that were racist and hurtful about their child? What does support for that look like? Perhaps the offender or offenders should have been chucked out? If the offenders weren't chucked out, I wonder what support would they have deemed acceptable to stay?

Do you really think their grievances were related to their child? I got the distinct impression it was mostly about Meghan.

 

[cabanafrau]

I’m not saying I think it was William. I’m saying the whole thing starts to make more sense if you consider that there may have been more to that conversation than we previously knew. Until now, it’s been portrayed as Harry having had an extreme reaction to William’s reasonable advice and the beginning of the disintegration of their previously close relationship. If you plunk this new info into the narrative, and consider that conversation may have been one of race-based “concerns” for how Harry’s future children could reflect poorly on the monarchy, his strong reaction and the subsequent falling out with his brother would make more sense. That said, I don’t personally *think* it was William — or Charles, or Beatrice, or anyone in particular — because it’s complete speculation and I don’t have enough evidence to point a finger at any of them with any level of certainty. H&M intentionally left it vague in order to spare that person’s (maybe multiple?) reputation while still giving enough info so the viewers would have a better understanding of what they were dealing with behind the scenes,

Harry overreacting to William's advice also makes sense if Harry had a previous girlfriend who ended their relationship because she knew the obligations that would be required weren't appealing to her. Harry wasn't old by any means, but he wasn't a super young groom either, he may have been feeling really ready to find a mate and have a family of his own. Nothing wrong with that at all. But it might explain overreacting to William recommending they slow things down and make sure Meghan knew what the job was. If Harry was also on edge about the nasty media comments after the relationship was made public, that's another reason why he might lash out at William's advice.

H & M left the basis of the accusation pretty vague. That leaves room that whatever was said might not be quite what they're portraying it. Leaving it vague has his entire family, including what remains of his immediate nuclear family, with a cloud of suspicion over their heads and a public baying for blood. We're talking about two people who are not unsophisticated about mass media coverage or social media -- and claim to have been the subject of a lot of cruelty and torment from both.