Is it just me....

[padawans]

In May of 2010 we stayed at the Poly 10 nights in GV room, 10 day tickets with park hoppers and water parks, and deluxe dining. The total price was 5,900. The same package in 2013 is 8,455. I would definitely say Disney is getting more expensive. I guess there is always the option of a value resort or a moderate resort, but that's not the kind of vacation I would want. 8,455 dollars would cover a pretty darn nice vacation anywhere in the USA. We have been Annual passholders the last two years, but with the reduction of discounts, and increase in prices we will most likely not renew in 2014.

 

[aaarcher86]

Whether you agree or disagree that 2000+ dollars on a family vacation is a lot of money or not... one thing we can agree on without a doubt is that an AVERAGE family cannot afford it.

I actually DO disagree. If we say average household income is $50,000 and all bills are normal amounts I don't think a $2,000 vacation in the summer (regardless of where) is out of reach whatsoever.

And again, unless it's stated what the average vacation for a family of 4 costs you're really just stating that everything over $2,000 vacation wise is unattainable - not just Disney.

I don't know how a family of 4 would keep costs below that with lodging, food, and any kind of entertainment.

 

[Laketravis]

"A 2010 American Express survey found that the average family of four will spend $4,000 on a vacation, including airfare."


http://traveltips.usatoday.com/much-cost-vacation-14241.html

 

[Laketravis]

I disagree on the "fluke" statement. Many many people are repeat customers and have been for a long time.And there are so many new families that "can't wait" to take their kids to the Happiest Place on Earth.
I live in Ill and just about every summer we head up to Wisc....I wish I could make dinner resv 6 months in advance so I wouldn't wait an hour just to eat!
Also my last 7-8 trips to WDW were all in Jan or Nov and the lines those times of year are really short except for the slow loading rides like SOARIN. I know not everybody can go "off" season, but highly recommended if long lines are a problem.
Damn I swore I wasn't going to reply on this thread anymore. Gotta get back to the FP+ thread

I agree that many are repeat customers but there are differing levels of repeat business. Someone who went to WDW in 1972 and went again in 2012 is by definition a repeat visitor but had no impact whatsoever on the crowd levels for 40 years.

Of the VERY frequent repeaters (more than once in a three year period), WDW's is about 10% according to estimates by independent sources. If you're counting once a year or more as frequent, I believe those numbers go up to about 20% and can be attributed entirely to locals who flood WDW on Saturdays and Florida residents who flood WDW during holidays. The number of these repeat visits is concentrated among a relatively small guest population.

What's interesting is that DisneyLAND is the inverse of that - they see almost 80% repeat visitors of once a year or more primarily because there are millions more potential visitors within a four hour drive. Not so with WDW.

That's why I'm sticking with my theory that we are seeing the cycle currently repeat for the 70% of Disney guests who space out their visits by three years or more....they are all getting their fixes this year and won't be back again until 2015-16.

 

[Shaden]

I actually DO disagree. If we say average household income is $50,000 and all bills are normal amounts I don't think a $2,000 vacation in the summer (regardless of where) is out of reach whatsoever.

And again, unless it's stated what the average vacation for a family of 4 costs you're really just stating that everything over $2,000 vacation wise is unattainable - not just Disney.

I don't know how a family of 4 would keep costs below that with lodging, food, and any kind of entertainment.

Keep in Mind, half of the US population has a household income lower than 50K/ year ... and about a Quarter has an income lower than 25K a year.

 

[pjhootch]

Interesting point Travis. We are not every year travelers by any means. It is also unusual for us to spend an entire week at WDW when we do go. We probably had a couple of trips that were 1 to 1 1/2 years apart. We've been an average of once every 2-3 years for 20 years. If you throw DL into the mix, we've been going more often than that for 30 plus years (between the 2). I have never stayed in a deluxe property at WDW. I came close a couple of times, but even when the kids were young and we could have only 1 room, 5 people to a room was pretty unpleasant with the age difference of the kids. We did stay "deluxe" at DL sometimes. It is a different type of experience on the west coast.

I honestly cannot remember what we've payed for lodging in past years at WDW, except for the last couple of trips. We've camped, done moderate, off-site and we have booked value, but I always wind up changing that before we actually stay at a value! We are booked for August now, and this is really the first time that I've balked at hotel prices. I don't want to stay offsite with the grown kids now, because being on property gives the 21 to 31 year old kids the ability to just go where they want independently of dad and I. Ironically, we mostly stay together, but sometimes I just am done for the day and they want to keep going. No 30 year old should have to leave a park because mom wants a nap or a margarita. And we have done more than one day at Epcot where dad and I decided to just head back to the Rose and Crown for a while before heading for a hot tub. The kids can go ahead and eat and drink their way around the world on their own!

$2000 doesn't strike me as an unreasonable amount for a Disney vacation. If my life depended on it I could probably still find a way to do it for that amount. Not for an entire week for 5 adults, and not counting travel expenses... but I could probably do 5 days for that amount. $2000 actually seems unrealistically low unless you are really good at avoiding extra costs (I can be good at if I'm in the mood).

However, when I see people quoting 6-9K for a Disney package without airfare... I definitely do a doubletake. Not to put anyone down that enjoys it, but I'm not going to stay in a fake polynesian lodge if that is what it costs. If I'm spending that type of money, I'm going to a polynesian island and eating real local food.

 

[Shaden]

However, when I see people quoting 6-9K for a Disney package without airfare... I definitely do a doubletake. Not to put anyone down that enjoys it, but I'm not going to stay in a fake polynesian lodge if that is what it costs. If I'm spending that type of money, I'm going to a polynesian island and eating real local food.

BEST line EVER !!!!

 

[aaarcher86]

Keep in Mind, half of the US population has a household income lower than 50K/ year ... and about a Quarter has an income lower than 25K a year.

I went off the first few articles I found showing median income as of August 2012...

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...-household-income-has-fallen-4-years-in-a-row.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-percent-since-obama-took-office-study-shows/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/us/us-incomes-dropped-last-year-census-bureau-says.html?_r=0

http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p60-243.pdf

For a 2 adult working family $50,000 didn't seem unreasonable. That's each adult making $25,000. Even if I dropped down to $40,000 for a family of 4 my stance wouldn't change.

The quarter of 4 person families making less than $25,000 a year can't afford a vacation anywhere - that's not subjective to Disney. But an average income family (based off articles, and even drop it down 10K for fun) should feasibly be able to afford a $3000 vacation.

This whole thing is kind of veering off topic - but it started with someone saying they thought it was sad that $150 a night for a resort was seen as reasonable.

 

[aaarcher86]

I agree that many are repeat customers but there are differing levels of repeat business. Someone who went to WDW in 1972 and went again in 2012 is by definition a repeat visitor but had no impact whatsoever on the crowd levels for 40 years.

Of the VERY frequent repeaters (more than once in a three year period), WDW's is about 10% according to estimates by independent sources. If you're counting once a year or more as frequent, I believe those numbers go up to about 20% and can be attributed entirely to locals who flood WDW on Saturdays and Florida residents who flood WDW during holidays. The number of these repeat visits is concentrated among a relatively small guest population.

What's interesting is that DisneyLAND is the inverse of that - they see almost 80% repeat visitors of once a year or more primarily because there are millions more potential visitors within a four hour drive. Not so with WDW.

That's why I'm sticking with my theory that we are seeing the cycle currently repeat for the 70% of Disney guests who space out their visits by three years or more....they are all getting their fixes this year and won't be back again until 2015-16.

I don't disagree, but if people are coming every 3 or 4 years each year would still yield 70% of people who are coming for their 1 trip every couple of years. The people that got their fix in 2011 would be back in 2014. The people from 2010 are planning their trips for this year, etc.

 

[Jemepech]

It's all based on attendance. When the resort an parks are continuously staying at or near capacity then there's no need to lower the prices. It's also done to control the crowd levels, just imagine for anyone who's been there recently if the prices were under $2,000 a week there would be so many people you would be unable to breathe. Prices keep it sane and not so popular that its to crowded and then becomes not fun. If everyone could go I believe it would not make it as magical.

For those who really want but continually complain about prices, learn/read on how to budget your year so you can go. I agree on a $45,000 to $80,000 yr income there's no reason not to be able to budget and save for trip. Don't by $3 coffee and eat lunch our everyday on a $50,000 a year income and think your going to be able to afford a 3k vacation. Stop and look at where your money is going and not blaming disney for the prices. I believe that for our family of 5, for 7 days resort, theme parks and food for 3k is great its about 85$ a day per person what other vacation destination would you be able get to your resort never have to get back in your car for a week and have everything a vacation needs at ur fingertips.

It's worth every penny!!

 

[Laketravis]

I don't disagree, but if people are coming every 3 or 4 years each year would still yield 70% of people who are coming for their 1 trip every couple of years. The people that got their fix in 2011 would be back in 2014. The people from 2010 are planning their trips for this year, etc.

You have to factor in a 3-4 year recession during which travel was severely cut back. From 2008 to 2011, WDW attendance was way down.

So those visits were "on hold" for a few years, which is why I think the sudden resurgence is simply the release of pent-up demand.

Now, assume that is true. Disney is responding like any other business would do when seeing increased demand - they are raising prices and reducing discounts.

What I don't know (but I hope for) is if the increase in attendance is only temporary, that attendance figures will stablize and then pull back again, and Disney will offer steep discounts again or re-align their pricing strategy.

 

[aaarcher86]

You have to factor in a 3-4 year recession during which travel was severely cut back. From 2008 to 2011, WDW attendance was way down.

So those visits were "on hold" for a few years, which is why I think the sudden resurgence is simply the release of pent-up demand.

Now, assume that is true. Disney is responding like any other business would do when seeing increased demand - they are raising prices and reducing discounts.

What I don't know (but I hope for) is if the increase in attendance is only temporary, that attendance figures will stablize and then pull back again, and Disney will offer steep discounts again or re-align their pricing strategy.

Im sure they would.

 

[OklahomaTourist]

I'd offer an enthusiastic caution here about making any generalizations about relative affordability of anything for anyone based solely on incomes relative to national averages.

A $50K income in Oklahoma, for example, goes a heck of a lot farther than $50K in, say, New York or California. So the discretionary income anyone else has isn't always an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[teentoddlermom]

Looking at my signature you can see I've stayed at the deluxe's a lot! However, the past few trips you can see the trend. I just can't believe the prices of the deluxes! I used to always get a great rate somehow, but now it seems the only deluxe that is marginally affordable is AKL. I haven't found pricing at WL that I can afford anymore. Always thought I would try the Contemporary, but yikes!
Even the moderates are getting pricey, but at least they are renovated, and have queen beds. They are actually fairly priced. I'd like to see better pricing at POP or AOA. Guess I can't be a deluxe girl anymore!

 

[disneyfantotheend]

I agree that their prices are too high. That is why we go so rarely. Every four years usually. Maybe some day I will stop going all together, but I doubt it. I love the experience, just not the prices.

 

[padawans]

I'd offer an enthusiastic caution here about making any generalizations about relative affordability of anything for anyone based solely on incomes relative to national averages.

A $50K income in Oklahoma, for example, goes a heck of a lot farther than $50K in, say, New York or California. So the discretionary income anyone else has isn't always an apples-to-apples comparison.

You make a very good point. I live in AZ. We make less then our relatives in California, but we can afford 3 trips to WDW a year while they can barely afford a day trip to DL. Discretionary income does vary a lot from state to state.

 

[chabs]

Once upon a time when my kids were younger (say 6-8 years ago), we used to be able to fly from NY, stay at Disney All Stars for 10 nights with water park and more park hopper passes and free dining (tip included) for 2 adults and 2 kids for less than $2000 and very little out of pocket money. Now we can't even get out of NY for half that.

 

[shan136]

I'm sorry if I am repeating any points that have already been mentioned, I read until page 6 then skipped ahead.

I agree that Disney price increases have not kept pace with the economy. We went for the first time in 2010 and stayed moderate (CBR), then in 2011 and stayed deluxe (BCV). I was shocked at the price of the rooms for October 2013 when I went to book our vacation this year. Even with the hope of a 30% discount, the room we are hoping to book is $100 per night MORE in 2013 than the room we booked during the same period in 2011.

I am chalking this up to the fact that Disney feels that their additions to MK along with the (slowly) rebounding economy will help them make up for smaller increases in previous years.

Luckily, this year we can swing it. Our child is still optimum "Disney age" so we are both willing and able to park our vacation dollars here. For us, I'm afraid Disney will price themselves out before our next return trip. We are already looking at future vacations in the Caribbean and Cruises that offer more than Disney for less money.

However, with that said, if you compare Disney with Atlantis, Disney wins hands down. If you include activities and merchandise, WDW offers a lot more for less money. I advise anyone when pricing out vacations to look at the total package, not just hotel, activity and food cost. With Disney we do get a lot, but if their price increases proportionately to the past two years the "deal" may no longer be worth it.

 

[aubriee]

I agree that Disney price increases have not kept pace with the economy. We went for the first time in 2010 and stayed moderate (CBR), then in 2011 and stayed deluxe (BCV). I was shocked at the price of the rooms for October 2013 when I went to book our vacation this year. Even with the hope of a 30% discount, the room we are hoping to book is $100 per night MORE in 2013 than the room we booked during the same period in 2011.

Luckily, this year we can swing it. Our child is still optimum "Disney age" so we are both willing and able to park our vacation dollars here. For us, I'm afraid Disney will price themselves out before our next return trip.

However, with that said, if you compare Disney with Atlantis, Disney wins hands down. If you include activities and merchandise, WDW offers a lot more for less money. I advise anyone when pricing out vacations to look at the total package, not just hotel, activity and food cost. With Disney we do get a lot, but if their price increases proportionately to the past two years the "deal" may no longer be worth it.

I agree, but think alot of Disney enthusiasts may find a way to still do Disney, but choose cheaper ways of doing it. I know we are. As an AP holder I go to WDW 4-6 times a year and usually stay at a moderate (occasionally deluxe if I could find a cheap enough discount). For our trip last Oct/Nov we chose to stay offsite for the first time ever and loved it. A coworker offered me a week at Westgate Town Center just a mile from the Disney gates for $450.00 ($64.00/night). No way could even a discounted value resort beat that, so we decided to give it try. As an AP holder we get free parking and we ate most dinners offsite. I was shocked at how much less we spent on meals (and got better food). Going several times a year, I seldom buy souvineers anymore. I just seldom see anything I want, but do enjoy running over to the outlet mall to see what I might find. For both our May and Nov trips this year, we'll be renting a one bedroom villa through a third party to stay at Wyndham Bonnet Creek. We'll still physically be on property, with my AP will not have to pay for parking, eat most dinners much cheaper off property, and will get ALOT more space at ALOT nicer resort for ALOT less money. I can get a one bedroom at Bonnet Creek cheaper than I can even a discounted Value room (much less the moderates that I prefer). For my May trip I'll be using an old one day park ticket and Disney Reward points to buy a new AP, so my ticket for the next year won't cost me anything, parking will be free with my AP, I doubt if I'll be buying any souvineers, most dinner will be offsite, lunch will be CS or offsite, breakfast will be in the condo, and the one bedroom condo is costing us only $89.60 per night for ten nights, so even though we'll be down there for ten nights/eleven days, Disney will be getting very little of my money the next few trips.

 

[Rileyf]

I'm sorry if I am repeating any points that have already been mentioned, I read until page 6 then skipped ahead.

I agree that Disney price increases have not kept pace with the economy. We went for the first time in 2010 and stayed moderate (CBR), then in 2011 and stayed deluxe (BCV). I was shocked at the price of the rooms for October 2013 when I went to book our vacation this year. Even with the hope of a 30% discount, the room we are hoping to book is $100 per night MORE in 2013 than the room we booked during the same period in 2011.

I am chalking this up to the fact that Disney feels that their additions to MK along with the (slowly) rebounding economy will help them make up for smaller increases in previous years.

Luckily, this year we can swing it. Our child is still optimum "Disney age" so we are both willing and able to park our vacation dollars here. For us, I'm afraid Disney will price themselves out before our next return trip. We are already looking at future vacations in the Caribbean and Cruises that offer more than Disney for less money.

However, with that said, if you compare Disney with Atlantis, Disney wins hands down. If you include activities and merchandise, WDW offers a lot more for less money. I advise anyone when pricing out vacations to look at the total package, not just hotel, activity and food cost. With Disney we do get a lot, but if their price increases proportionately to the past two years the "deal" may no longer be worth it.

We take vacations outside of Disney, and our Disney vacations are always the most expensive. We have been to Hawaii and Cancun in the last two years and those vacations were about half the cost of what I am spending at Disney. It really depends on how you do Disney. We stay in deluxe type resorts when we vacation, and we enjoy fine dining. I realize Disney can be cheap if you stay at a value resort and eat fast food. I think when you compare vacations you have to compare Apples to Apples. What is going to cost more a nice resort in Hawaii or staying at the Poly. I guarantee you I can find a better deal in Hawaii.