Is it just me....

[Shaden]

Wilderness/Shaden:

Thanks for making those very good points. For some groups, the cap is what they can afford and the experience is so worth it for them that they will make sacrifices in order to do it. (Boy, I wish some of those people were MY customers!)

For others, it's what they feel is reasonable. I can afford a Mercedes, but I drive a Kia. I love WDW as much as anybody, even more now that I've got a seven year old that takes me along with him

But I have a hard time paying more than $200 a night at CSR. For me, anything over $325 for a CR Tower MK view is unreasonable, and unfortunately those days are probably long gone and I'll never do it again.

It's that upward price pressure that is not "forcing" but "causing" more and more people to start considering staying offsite. And as that causation works it's way up the ranks from those who do so because they can't afford it to those who do so even though they can, I can't help but believe that it will have a negative impact on WDW.

They have to fill those resorts. It's not an option. Maybe the only way they can do it right now is by offering up to 30% off rack rates that were recently increased by 20%. The bean counters at corporate Disney will be happy, because hey - that's really only a 10% discount. But pricing in itself is both a science and an art, and what Disney is doing has me very, very curious to watch, learn, and observe the outcome.

I kinda/sorta do this for a living, which is why I'm so interested in what each person's "cutoff" point is when they are finally forced to decide whether it's still worth it or not - even if they can afford it.

Wilderness, my signature line is telling in a manner similar to yours - except in reverse. The last four years, I've been "downgrading" myself from CR, to CSR, to BLT - and while BLT isn't a physical downgrade, it's a cost downgrade because I rented points. Basically, each year I've found a way to spend less on lodging while still staying on site.

Does Disney win when more and more people follow that strategy?

Good insights, interesting trend for you as well.

Maybe I will eat my own words and ditch the on site lodging sooner than I thought. Since we are looking at Dec 2014, (for the trip after this may...) I am kind of intrigued by Bonnet Creek and I think I could Bring my Mother and my Nephew along for the same price as my Wife an I alone on site.

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

Honestly I looked into DVC because my daughters are in college and probably from here on they will bring along friends or boyfriends. In years to come a husband and maybe kids. WDW is a place we as afamily will always meet no matter where our lives take us. However, it really does look like it will save me many dollars over the next 30 years.MF's will go up but that's nothing compared to always having to get at least 2 rooms on property.

 

[PinkLemonade7503]

I think value is so relative.

Right now, to me, staying in a deluxe seems weird. It just isn't what I expect with a Disney World stay. I could see a time when we've had more kids and gone to Disney World so much that the added luxury from a deluxe would make it a bit more palatable. For now, if I think of those prices I would rather go on a cruise.

The other thing that brings value for me is kid's enjoyment. Dh and I love HP, but don't feel like we can take little dd to Universal yet. We have many future years of awe and wonder at Disney World, but sure, yeah, as kids get older that goes down to a degree and Universal seems like a better deal.

 

[aubriee]

Wilderness/Shaden:

Thanks for making those very good points. For some groups, the cap is what they can afford and the experience is so worth it for them that they will make sacrifices in order to do it. (Boy, I wish some of those people were MY customers!)

For others, it's what they feel is reasonable. I can afford a Mercedes, but I drive a Kia. I love WDW as much as anybody, even more now that I've got a seven year old that takes me along with him

But I have a hard time paying more than $200 a night at CSR. For me, anything over $325 for a CR Tower MK view is unreasonable, and unfortunately those days are probably long gone and I'll never do it again.

It's that upward price pressure that is not "forcing" but "causing" more and more people to start considering staying offsite. And as that causation works it's way up the ranks from those who do so because they can't afford it to those who do so even though they can, I can't help but believe that it will have a negative impact on WDW.

I kinda/sorta do this for a living, which is why I'm so interested in what each person's "cutoff" point is when they are finally forced to decide whether it's still worth it or not - even if they can afford it.

Wilderness, my signature line is telling in a manner similar to yours - except in reverse. The last four years, I've been "downgrading" myself from CR, to CSR
Does Disney win when more and more people follow that strategy?

I'm an AP holder that goes to WDW 4-6 times a year. I remember getting a courtyard view at WL for $149.00 and a moderate for $79.00 just a few years ago, using an AP discount. Those days were nie, but they are now gone. I can afford to stay in a Deluxe (and in fact did spend a week at AKL just this past Sept). However, for the most part, I've chosen the moderates for most of my trips the last few years. I do not like the Values and the Deluxes just don't seem worth it anymore. For our Oct/Nov trip, I had CBR booked with a discount, but just a few weeks before we left, a coworker offered us a week in a one bedroom condo at Westgate Town Center for just $400.00 (plus the $50.00 trade in fee, so $64.00 per night). That was the turning point for us. I had always swore I would never stay offsite, but that deal was just too good to pass up, so we decided to give it a try. We figured that even if we didn't like offsite, that it was just for one trip and we'd live through it. We absolutely loved having that fully equipped kitchen, large screen TV, washer/dryer and all that extra space to spread out. We wondered what took us so long to finally give offsite accomodations a chance. I came back and canceled my onsite reservation for my May trip and booked a one bedroom at Bonnet Creek through a third party. I'll be in a nice fully equipped condo, physically on property, for $89.60 per night. Why should I pay more than twice that much for a single room at a Moderate with just two beds a dresser, and small fridge, when I can get twice the space and much better amenties (fully equipped kitchen, living room, separate bedroom, two TVs, jacuzzi, nice walk in shower, multiple hot tubs, nicer pools, two lazy rivers, etc) at Bonnet Creek. Why should I pay three times that amount for a Deluxe that's alot smaller and not near as nice? I use a rental car anyway and have an AP, so won't need to pay for parking at the parks. Bonnet Creek is still on property and closer than alot of WDW owned resorts. My eyes were finally opened when I stayed offsite for the first time this past Oct/Nov. I can't see ever staying on property again, unless Disney goes way down on their resort prices.

For that matter, I am a RN, so if I wanted to, I qualifiy for the Nurses Discounts over at Swan/Dolphin. Why would I want to pay BC/YC/BW prices when I could stay at the Swan/Dolphin for half the price? I can afford it and in fact did spend a trip at the YC a few years ago, just so I could check out Storm Along Bay. While there, I decided it was not worth it, for what I paid.

 

[aubriee]

deleted

 

[asmit4]

What I can afford or what I think is 'price gouging' is irrelevant. The ONLY goal of Disney (and ALL companies) is to make as much $ as possible. DW is about supply and demand. If you can sell out all of your rooms for $200 a night you'd do it, BUT if you can STILL sell all of those same rooms for $300 you'd do it! You sell at the top price that demand will accept.

Each family has to decide what a trip to DW/staying onsite is worth to you. You have to figure out your own demand for the product Many have said it's too much $ and the hotels are not fancy/large enough (and I personally agree with them)....so they do not bother staying onsite anymore. I also know many who think DW is horrifically expensive, hate the planning and will never take their kids there- onsite or offsite.

If enough people start to feel like those above, disney will have to reduce their pricing. Until then- DW is what it is- a BUSINESS who's ONLY interest is to MAKE MONEY. DW provides a fantasy world for all of us disney lovers but do not EVER forget what the #1 GOAL is and ALWAYS will be.....MAKE money. (and as stockholder myself- I'm cool with that

 

[tink1953]

I think someone had posted that if people stopped booking a reservation in hopes of getting a code or discount then Disney might give better offers to get people to book?? They don't see the need to discount resorts that are full or close to being full

 

[aaarcher86]

I think someone had posted that if people stopped booking a reservation in hopes of getting a code or discount then Disney might give better offers to get people to book?? They don't see the need to discount resorts that are full or close to being full

It's not Disney's first rodeo - they account for the number of bookings that will cancel without a discount. They know how it works.

 

[HippieChickadee]

I agree.

Let's take a family of 4.

at a value resort 5 nights- approximately $120 a night

Park 5 day tickets (we will round and not add the extra $57 dollars for hopper) $260

So without food, we are at $1640 that doesn't include airfare or gas depending on how they get there

Just adding the dinning plan for 5 days that's an added $1100 making the trip $2740 dollars for a family of 4!!!!!!!!!

 

[aaarcher86]

I agree.

Let's take a family of 4.

at a value resort 5 nights- approximately $120 a night

Park 5 day tickets (we will round and not add the extra $57 dollars for hopper) $260

So without food, we are at $1640 that doesn't include airfare or gas depending on how they get there

Just adding the dinning plan for 5 days that's an added $1100 making the trip $2740 dollars for a family of 4!!!!!!!!!

That honestly doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all.

If we go to Myrtle Beach for a week we're paying around $1000 for the hotel for the week. We eat dinner out each night as a family and get groceries for inside the condo or whatever for the day. Toss in some entertainment and we're easily at that price.

 

[HippieChickadee]

That honestly doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all.

If we go to Myrtle Beach for a week we're paying around $1000 for the hotel for the week. We eat dinner out each night as a family and get groceries for inside the condo or whatever for the day. Toss in some entertainment and we're easily at that price.

Right. But not everyone is as well off as you.

MOST families don't have almost 3 grand to spend on a vacation but Disney is DISNEY. The happiest place on earth. Where memories are made. (fill in any other line you can remember from Disney ads).

It's just a sad thought to me that only those who think 1000 dollars for a resort for a week, as you said, is not unreasonable.

I say, for many, it's not possible.

 

[jsrj21]

I agree with most on this thread. I was just mentioning to my wife the other day that we will probably never be able to stay at a resort above moderate. I'm a teacher - enough said! Even so, my DW, DS, and me usually do a 10-day trip with room, MYW w/park hopper, water park, etc and spend about $5000.00 after airfare etc. Prices are definitely getting out of reach at other resorts we'd love to stay at, specifically Poly and AKL.

Many have mentioned the reality of WDW being a business and that is very true. However, I wonder if at some point the average family will be able to really afford a one-week vacation at WDW. That's why we cherish and feel blessed that we can go for the foreseeable future. The memories have been priceless!

 

[aaarcher86]

Right. But not everyone is as well off as you.

MOST families don't have almost 3 grand to spend on a vacation but Disney is DISNEY. The happiest place on earth. Where memories are made. (fill in any other line you can remember from Disney ads).

It's just a sad thought to me that only those who think 1000 dollars for a resort for a week, as you said, is not unreasonable.

I say, for many, it's not possible.

We will just have to agree to disagree then I guess. Even if I couldn't afford the prices you mentioned, it would seem unreasonable... I just wouldn't be able to afford it.

When you're throwing all these components into the mix (hotel, food, entertainment/tickts, etc) it has to be anticipated that you aren't going to walk out paying $1500 for a family of 4. But it's not unattainable. It's not half of someone's yearly salary just for a vacation.

And you certainly don't have to feel $1000 for a resort a week is fine to vacation at Disney. There are plenty of places for less off property. If someone feels comfortable spending $30/night for a room somewhere nearby it is available. I think the Best Western we stayed at on the drive home one year was around $75 for the night for far less than what Disney gives for a room... Disney being around $95 for a value isn't outrageous for what it is.

What's the average vacation budget for a family of 4?

 

[RainK]

I find Disney no more expensive then some other vacation spots.

Maybe because I'm in New York and used to "expensive" hotels.
$300 a night for a run down cabin in Lake George, $200 for a hotel in Cortland, NY is common.

So the budgets at $100 and mods at $175 in Disney seem good to me.
Noone sqays people have to stay deluxe.


It's the airfare that I dislike the most.

I agree with you. Coming from Boston, we go back to Disney because it IS so affordable for our family of 4. (especially if you get a discount). There is something to do for everyone.
We stay in Values mostly, don't rent a car, and check airfare prices daily to get best rates.
We are used to $200 + a night hotels in this area so $95 for a Disney resort is a steal!!!

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

Right. But not everyone is as well off as you.

MOST families don't have almost 3 grand to spend on a vacation but Disney is DISNEY. The happiest place on earth. Where memories are made. (fill in any other line you can remember from Disney ads).

It's just a sad thought to me that only those who think 1000 dollars for a resort for a week, as you said, is not unreasonable.

I say, for many, it's not possible.

You are correct that not all can afford but that is not Disney's fault or problem. They created the AllStars with the knowledge that more people with lower incomes could enjoy their parks from their grounds(angering many of the Days Inn operations!) At times those rooms are $69-$79 per night. That's about as low as they are going to go. People with lower incomes obviously neec to prioritize what's important in their life and odds are it's not a WDW vacation every year.....but it may be every OTHER year or every 3rd year. They need to go the time of year when prices are lower. And when adding up a cost you can't blame Disney for gas or airline costs! I know it's part of a vacation but they have no control about that. P.S. A dining plan would be the last thing a guest with little resources should buy. Earl of Sandwich instead!

 

[Laketravis]

I'll say this - no matter which side of the fence you are on, worth it or not worth it, can afford it or not afford it.....there are a LOT of posts popping up lately on this and other forums about how expensive WDW is becoming.

So perception at some point becomes reality. If I were Disney, I'd be a little worried at this point. I think they are basing their long term pricing strategy on short term resurgence due to pent up demand. Many people postponed their WDW visits during the four years from 2008-2012. Now, for a variety of economic reasons, they are back with a vengeance and increased park attendance is a fluke - many of those visitors won't be back next year, or even the year after that - because (I know it's a shock) not everyone goes to WDW once a year. In fact, those of use who do are a tiny minority.

And I do agree that other destinations aren't cheap either. Even Vegas isn't the cheap getaway it used to be (I stayed at the Cosmo twice last year, had lunch with Larry Flynt, just not at the same table. But his gold plated wheelchair was within kicking distance and I couldn't believe how it's now fashionable in Vegas to charge as much as possible for as little as possible).

Of course, at those other destinations I don't have to wait an hour in line for anything or make dining reservations six months in advance, but that's a whole other topic.......

 

[HippieChickadee]

Whether you agree or disagree that 2000+ dollars on a family vacation is a lot of money or not... one thing we can agree on without a doubt is that an AVERAGE family cannot afford it.

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

I disagree that 2000.00 is a lot .If a family wants/needs that time with each other than it is worth the money. Again maybe not every year but what they get out of it can be worth more than the money spent.

 

[WILDERNESS FAN 55]

I'll say this - no matter which side of the fence you are on, worth it or not worth it, can afford it or not afford it.....there are a LOT of posts popping up lately on this and other forums about how expensive WDW is becoming.

So perception at some point becomes reality. If I were Disney, I'd be a little worried at this point. I think they are basing their long term pricing strategy on short term resurgence due to pent up demand. Many people postponed their WDW visits during the four years from 2008-2012. Now, for a variety of economic reasons, they are back with a vengeance and increased park attendance is a fluke - many of those visitors won't be back next year, or even the year after that - because (I know it's a shock) not everyone goes to WDW once a year. In fact, those of use who do are a tiny minority.

And I do agree that other destinations aren't cheap either. Even Vegas isn't the cheap getaway it used to be (I stayed at the Cosmo twice last year, had lunch with Larry Flynt, just not at the same table. But his gold plated wheelchair was within kicking distance and I couldn't believe how it's now fashionable in Vegas to charge as much as possible for as little as possible).

Of course, at those other destinations I don't have to wait an hour in line for anything or make dining reservations six months in advance, but that's a whole other topic.......

I disagree on the "fluke" statement. Many many people are repeat customers and have been for a long time.And there are so many new families that "can't wait" to take their kids to the Happiest Place on Earth.
I live in Ill and just about every summer we head up to Wisc....I wish I could make dinner resv 6 months in advance so I wouldn't wait an hour just to eat!
Also my last 7-8 trips to WDW were all in Jan or Nov and the lines those times of year are really short except for the slow loading rides like SOARIN. I know not everybody can go "off" season, but highly recommended if long lines are a problem.
Damn I swore I wasn't going to reply on this thread anymore. Gotta get back to the FP+ thread

 

[RD-SOX]

The average price of gas in January 2001 was $1.45/gallon. The average price of gas this week this year is $3.30/gallon That's a 127% increase

The rack rate of a standard room at AKL the last week of January this year is $313 a night. That's a 124% increase.

I wish my paycheck increased like that!!