Is it just me? Final Update post #83

I totally agree with everything that has been said and I see many red flags. The fact of the matter is that she is 18yo and it is her choice. I also have an 18yo DD and know how scary that is and know how carefully you might have to phrase things in order for her to get the point without pushing her towards him. The first red flag to me was the age difference--that's a very big difference to an 18yo. If she were 10 years older I wouldn't be concerned, but she's still a teenager and is barely out of high school and it seems that there is a reason that he wants someone so young. Hopefully she will realize how controlling he is and break things off soon. It seems that you have gotten some good advice.
 
Please print out the post by dmslush and leave it where she will find it if you feel you can not give it to her outright.

He is clearly being abusive already. Abuse takes many forms and control in any form is abusive. That is almost always how it starts and it only gets worse over time.
 
I have a real problem with a 25 yo wanting to date an 18 yo girl. And I am sure your daughter is lovely and desirerable but the fact he is dating such a young girl shows me that he knows she is more naive than a girl closer to his own age would be and he can pull this crap with her. I think he has probably tried to be possessive with girls his age and they were onto him so he is going after younger girls now to take advantage of their inexperience.

As the mother of a 16 yo girl, I fear what you are talking about. Your daughter is way to young to be in such a relationship. She has a long way ahead of her with pharmacy school, etc. This guy will have her career goals completely off track if given the chance. Is he going to be stalking her behind the counter about who she talks to in 10 years, how she looked at them, that she made eye contact, etc. The worse thing a professional woman could ever have in her life is a partner who doesn't trust her, its a recipe for disaster.

I would put the seeds of doubt into her mind and then feed those seeds occasionally and hopefully those seeds will grow into full grown blossoms in her head and she will RUN on her own!!!

Good Luck

AM
 

This a textbook description of the guys who become abusers as it starts with control. She needs to run away -- FAST. I'd look for someone younger, too, if I were her.
 
Like the others here, Red flags were being set off as I was reading. I just kept seeing him (in my minds eye) Back handing her. It just screams at me that she needs to get out of this relationship, and I doubt that it will be easy for her. Prayers and pixie dust.
 
Tigger&Belle said:
I totally agree with everything that has been said and I see many red flags. The fact of the matter is that she is 18yo and it is her choice. I also have an 18yo DD and know how scary that is and know how carefully you might have to phrase things in order for her to get the point without pushing her towards him. The first red flag to me was the age difference--that's a very big difference to an 18yo. If she were 10 years older I wouldn't be concerned, but she's still a teenager and is barely out of high school and it seems that there is a reason that he wants someone so young. Hopefully she will realize how controlling he is and break things off soon. It seems that you have gotten some good advice.

I agree with this completely. I do think he's too old for her (and have told her so).

Fortunately, since she's still living at home, they see each other here on weekends. He usually comes over Friday afternoon, and they ride horses and then watch a movie here. He leaves around 1 a.m. or so. Since his truck uses so much gas, he doesn't come back on Sat. (as a student he doesn't have a lot of disposable income).

During the week, they see each other at school, but she's always home by dark.
 
Shutterbug said:
Questions:

How many past gf's has this guy had and when was the last one?

My understanding is that he's dated several girls. The last relationship lasted for 3 or 4 years, but he hasn't dated anybody lately (until now, of course).
 
tar heel said:
This a textbook description of the guys who become abusers as it starts with control. She needs to run away -- FAST. I'd look for someone younger, too, if I were her.

One of the first things that really got my attention (other than the fact that he was too old to start with) was something that happened not too long after they first started dating.

He had invited her over for the day and was cooking barbecue for her. His roommate and a girlfriend of his was there too. Later on in the afternoon, the roommate was walking out the door to get something and as he walked out the door, he winked at DD. She was somewhat taken aback (thought it was pretty rude considering she was dating his roommate). When she turned around, BF wasn't there. He had seen what had happened and had gone into his room "to calm down". Now most guys would have said, "I oughta whip his butt" and let it go. I didn't like the part about having to go into his room to calm down.
 
UrsulasMyHero said:
Like the others here, Red flags were being set off as I was reading. I just kept seeing him (in my minds eye) Back handing her. It just screams at me that she needs to get out of this relationship, and I doubt that it will be easy for her. Prayers and pixie dust.

I would say that I'd kill him, but I'd have to beat her father to it.

We've been talking about it more tonight and are debating how best to handle it. She's got about 6 or 7 more weeks of school and then she'll be out for summer. That should throw a major wrench in things.

I've even debated just saying that we don't want her to see this guy anymore, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to "throw down the gauntlet". She talks to me a lot now, and I don't want that to dry up.

I just can't believe that she doesn't see him for what I think he is. It's just not like her.
 
sbclifton said:
I've even debated just saying that we don't want her to see this guy anymore, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to "throw down the gauntlet". She talks to me a lot now, and I don't want that to dry up.

No no no. Don't do that. Remember, you don't know anything. You don't know what it's like to be in looove ;).

Do what you can to throw a wrench in it behind the scenes. Don't help her if she moves out, don't give her extra money for gas to go see him (always be "out of cash" or something).

If she brings up his behavor you lead in with "wow, your dad was never jealous when I talked to other male friends or aquantinces. how does that make you feel?"
 
Because I'm a survivor of domestic violence, I feel it's important to have this repeated. And not just for your daughter but for anyone who might be in a similar situation.


dmslush said:
I am a domestic violence victim legal advocate, and if you daughter were my daughter, I'd be telling her to RUN as fast as she can. Trying to isolate from friends and/or family is one of the basic characteristics of a potentially abusive personality. Here is a list of things to look out for that we give out at the shelter. While all of them probably will not apply except to the most severe cases of abuse, having any of them are definate red flags. If you need information about how to access resources in your area, feel free to PM me.

# JEALOUSY
At the beginning of a relationship, an abuser will always say that jealousy is a sign of love. Jealousy has nothing to do with love. It's a sign of possessiveness and lack of trust. He will question the woman about who she talks to, accuse her of flirting, or be jealous of time she spends with family, friends, or children. As the jealousy progresses, he may call her frequently during the day or drop by unexpectedly. He may refuse to let her work for fear she will meet someone else, or even do strange behaviors such as checking her mileage or asking friends to watch her.

# CONTROLLING BEHAVIOR
At first, the batterer will say this behavior is because he's concerned for the woman's safety, her need to use her time well, or her need to make good decisions. He will be angry if the woman is "late" coming back from the store or an appointment, he will question her closely about where she went, and who she talked to. As this behavior gets worse, he may not let the woman make personal decisions about the house, her clothing, or going to church. He may keep all the money or even make her ask permission to leave the house or room.

# QUICK INVOLVEMENT
Many battered women dated or knew their abuser for less than six (6) months before they were married, engaged, or living together. He comes on like a whirlwind, claiming "You're the only person I could ever talk to," "I've never felt loved like this by anyone." He will pressure the woman to commit to the relationship in such a way that later a woman may feel guilty or that she's "letting him down" if she wants to slow down involvement or break-off.

# UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS
Abusive people will expect their partner to meet all their needs. He expects the woman to be the perfect wife, mother, lover, or friend. He will say things like "If you love me, I'm all you need - you're all I need." She is supposed to take care of everything for him emotionally and in the home.

# ISOLATION
The abusive person tries to cut the person off from all resources. If she has men friends, she's a *****. If she has women friends, she's a lesbian. If she's close to family, she's "tied to the apron strings." He accuses people who are the woman's supports of "causing trouble." He may want to live in the country without a phone. He may not let her use a car (or have one that is reliable), or he may try to keep the woman from working or going to school.

# BLAMES OTHERS FOR PROBLEMS
If he is chronically unemployed, someone is always doing him wrong, or out to get him. He may make mistakes and then blame the woman for upsetting him and keeping him from concentrating on the work. He will tell the woman she is at fault for almost anything that goes wrong.

# BLAMES OTHERS FOR FEELINGS
He will tell the woman, "You make me mad." "You are hurting me by not doing what I want you to do." "I can't help being angry." He really makes the decision about what he thinks or feels, but will use feeling to manipulate the woman. Harder to catch are claims that, "You make me happy," "You control how I feel."

# HYPERSENSITIVITY
An abuser is easily insulted. He claims his feelings are "hurt" when really he's very mad or he takes the slightest setbacks as personal attacks. He will "rant and rave" about the injustice of things that have happened - things that are really just part of living, like being asked to work overtime, getting a traffic ticket, being told some behavior is annoying or being asked to help with the chores.

# CRUELTY TO ANIMALS OR CHILDREN
This is a person who punishes animals brutally or is insensitive to their pain or suffering. He may expect children to be capable of doing things beyond their ability (whips a two year old for wetting a diaper). He may tease children or younger brothers and sisters until they cry (60% of men who beat the women they are with, also beat their children). He may not want children to eat at the table or expects to keep them in their room all evening while he is home.

# "PLAYFUL" USE OF FORCE IN SEX
This kind of person may like to throw the woman down and hold her during sex. He may want to act out fantasies during sex where the woman is helpless. He's letting her know that the idea of rape is exciting. He may show little concern about whether the woman wants to have sex and uses sulking or anger to manipulate her into compliance. He may start having sex with the woman while she is sleeping, or demand sex when she is ill or tired.

# VERBAL ABUSE
In addition to saying things that are meant to be cruel and hurtful, this can be seen when the abuser degrades the woman, cursing her, and running down any of her accomplishments. The abuser will tell the woman that she is stupid and unable to function without him. This may involve waking the woman up to verbally abuse her or not letting her go to sleep.

# RIGID SEX ROLES
The abuser expects a woman to serve him. He may say the woman must stay at home, and that she must obey in all things - even things that are criminal in nature. The abuser will see women as inferior to men, responsible for menial tasks, stupid, and unable to be a whole person without a relationship.

# DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE
Many women are confused by their abuser's "sudden" changes in mood. They may think the abuser has some special mental problem because one minute he's nice and the next he's exploding. Explosiveness and moodiness are typical of people who beat their partners, and these behaviors are related to other characteristics like hypersensitivity.

# ***PAST BATTERING
This person may say he has hit women in the past, but they made him do it. The woman may hear from relatives or ex-spouses or girlfriends that the person is abusive. A batterer will beat any woman they are with if the woman is with him long enough for the violence to begin. Situational circumstances do not make a person have an abusive personality.

# ***THREATS OF VIOLENCE
This could include any threat of physical force meant to control the woman. "I'll slap your mouth off," "I'll kill you," "I'll break your neck." Most people do not threaten their mates, but a batterer will try to excuse threats by saying "everybody talks like that."

# ***BREAKING OR STRIKING OBJECTS
This behavior is used as a punishment (breaking loved possessions), but is mostly used to terrorize the woman into submission. The abuser may beat on the table with his fist, and throw objects around or near the woman. Again, this is very remarkable behavior. Not only is this a sign of extreme emotional immaturity, but there is great danger when someone thinks they have the "right" to punish or frighten their wife or girlfriend.

# ***ANY FORCE DURING AN ARGUMENT
This may involve a batterer holding a woman down, physically restraining her from leaving the room, and any pushing or shoving. They may hold the woman against the wall and say, "You're going to listen to me!"


I wish I had had someone in my life who cared enough to be concerned like you are for your daughter. There was not one single person in my life who spoke up - mother, father, sister, cousin, aunt, uncle, grandparent, co-worker, neighbor - nobody. I was able to get out in May of 1996, 10 years ago, and yet those nasty emotional scars pop up every now and then.

Sounds to me that you are on the right track with your daughter - you've let her know your concerns but haven't told her what to do. I wish there were more parents like you and your husband. :thumbsup2
 
My opinion on all of this is that MASS has a FABULOUS Pharmacy School in Boston and I have TWO friends whose children attend that college...this is a SIX year program and INCREDIBLY INTENSE. Also Pharmacists are among the top paying jobs for college grads....one friend's 6th year SON = $105,000 with BROOKS PHARMACY and my other friend's 6th year DAUGHTER = $110,000 with CVS and neither has even graduated.... will be this MAY.....

THAT ALL SAID, Your DD is going to get busier and busier with her academics and the BF may have some serious issues with her being that busy and make take her schedule as a way of ignoring HIM.....then his NOSE will be out of joint.

Like the other Posters have said....she really needs to re-think this relationship for many reasons as well as her own SAFETY!!!

Good Luck, with all this mom, just keep those lines of communication open and keep us all posted on how things are working out. Some of the suggestions on this Thread are of such value.
 
For your own peace of mind, maybe you can get a backgound check run on this guy, see if he's ever been arrested(and what for), if he was ever really in the Marines, why he got out, what his age really is...

Not that this would stop your DD from doing what she darn well pleases, but still...if I were a mother in this situation, I would want to know.

(Plus since she's living at home now, opportunities (personal, professional) are just *sure* to present themselves...especially if you could maybe help them along?)

good luck, you've got a tough row to hoe.
agnes!
 
momrek06 said:
My opinion on all of this is that MASS has a FABULOUS Pharmacy School in Boston and I have TWO friends whose children attend that college...this is a SIX year program and INCREDIBLY INTENSE. Also Pharmacists are among the top paying jobs for college grads....one friend's 6th year SON = $105,000 with BROOKS PHARMACY and my other friend's 6th year DAUGHTER = $110,000 with CVS and neither has even graduated.... will be this MAY.....

THAT ALL SAID, Your DD is going to get busier and busier with her academics and the BF may have some serious issues with her being that busy and make take her schedule as a way of ignoring HIM.....then his NOSE will be out of joint.

Like the other Posters have said....she really needs to re-think this relationship for many reasons as well as her own SAFETY!!!

Good Luck, with all this mom, just keep those lines of communication open and keep us all posted on how things are working out. Some of the suggestions on this Thread are of such value.

Her school is really tough too. Twenty percent of her pharmacy early entry class was put out at the end of the first semester. Fortunately, she's very goal oriented and really likes her current 4.0 GPA. She knows that if she keeps her grades up, she's got a shot at more scholarships for the 5th and 6th years.

So far, that's what she's been doing (which has led to some of his whining about not seeing her enough). It will only continue to get tougher which will limit her time even more, as you said.


I've tried to be fair, but I just really do believe he's overboard. She goes out to lunch with her friends almost every day, so he's not around all the time. The main problem is that I think he'd like to be.

To be honest, he does seem to be nice. His mother has 4 younger children (with 2nd husband), and he remembers all of their birthdays and mails them birthday presents. They call him for advice and seem to adore him. Whenever he called DD this week (while at his mother's), they were always with him and he was doing stuff with them (fishing, basketball, etc.).

I've even wondered if part of his problem is that his mom has her own life (and 4 kids) and his dad has his own life (with a young daughter from his 2nd marriage), and he's just wanting something of his own.

BUT, I don't want it to be my DD. He's way too overboard!
 
agnes! said:
For your own peace of mind, maybe you can get a backgound check run on this guy, see if he's ever been arrested(and what for), if he was ever really in the Marines, why he got out, what his age really is...

Not that this would stop your DD from doing what she darn well pleases, but still...if I were a mother in this situation, I would want to know.

(Plus since she's living at home now, opportunities (personal, professional) are just *sure* to present themselves...especially if you could maybe help them along?)

good luck, you've got a tough row to hoe.
agnes!

DH and I discussed a background check last night. It's definitely an option. I have found his name and birthday on the internet, so I know that's accurate. It even showed both of his addresses (at his dad's and at his mother's).

BF was injured (required knee surgery) in the Marines and was given a medical discharge. He's still under a doctor's care and gets some sort of check for it (she went with him to the doctor the last time he had a medical review for it and was actually in the examination room when the doctor checked his knee).

Believe me, I'm watching for any of those opportunities that come up (and crossing my fingers for them).
 
Belle0101 said:
I wish I had had someone in my life who cared enough to be concerned like you are for your daughter. There was not one single person in my life who spoke up - mother, father, sister, cousin, aunt, uncle, grandparent, co-worker, neighbor - nobody. I was able to get out in May of 1996, 10 years ago, and yet those nasty emotional scars pop up every now and then.

I'm glad to hear that you're doing better! :grouphug:
 
OH Man, exactly what I said and what you said...re: about his mom and dad being very busy with their "own lives"....what will happen once he realizes seriously that your DD has her "own life" with the intense committment she has too her education. Your DD may get the brunt of his "anger"!!! Do you think that is a possibility. He seems to me, that he just would like someone to give him some attention as he suffered a loss of that when he was younger.
It is outstanding that he has a soft side...re: spending time with his siblings. That certainly is very positive! But I worry that sometimes the most "innocent party", that being your DD, may take some "HEAT" for anything that does not just go his way whether it is his family life or your DD's school life!!!

HANG IN THERE!!!
 
WatchinCaptKangaroo said:
No no no. Don't do that. Remember, you don't know anything. You don't know what it's like to be in looove ;).

Do what you can to throw a wrench in it behind the scenes. Don't help her if she moves out, don't give her extra money for gas to go see him (always be "out of cash" or something).

So far, we've been blessed not to have that "you don't know" perspective. In fact, she's even said that while she may not like what I say sometimes, I have an irritating habit of being right! :rotfl2:

That said, I'm afraid that this time that attitude might come up, so that's why I'm asking for advice and treading very lightly.

She's definitely made up her mind not to move out, so that's safe. DH has already said (to me) that she won't be making any trips over there to see him (he'll be in summer school). I'm ALWAYS "out of cash", so that's not a problem! :rotfl2:
 

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