IS DVC Ownership really that expensive?

[Summertime97]

Hmmm, there is a lot of information on this site... and I lot of opinions about how to vacation. I enjoy reading it for new ideas.

About cost savings - I figure that I will save 38% over rack rate or 23% over room only discount (20%) at a value resort. I stayed in value, moderate and deluxe accommodations at Disney over the last 8 years. I know my family can go value so I based my cost comparison against POP. Plotting out future vacations for the next 40ish years is hard but I did that on a spreadsheet then added up the initial cost plus MFs (factoring in 3% inflation per year) and compared it against staying at POP the same number of times (also factoring in 3% inflation per year.) Because the numbers worked in my favor, I bought into DVC. I just passed ROFR on a low point contract and plan to bank and borrow to stay in a studio every 2 years. I love Disney. My husband likes it so I know we will not plan on going every year. I mention that because when I started looking at contracts with more points, I'd have to go more often to use the points which means I'd end up spending more because I own DVC. I think the key is to be honest about your family's vacation habits and buy something you are comfortable with.

Good luck with ROFR!

 

[CarolMN]

IMO, buying another timeshare and using it to exchange into DVC has some real disadvantages for mwagner:

As noted, it will take time and effort to learn the exchange system (which could change). More concerning (IM0), it would be difficult to coordinate specific dates with his in-laws when they want to travel together. Very possible that what the OP wants would not be an option in the system or even if it were, his timeshare resort may not have enough "juice" to get what he wants.

Perhaps a better option for him to consider - with less risk and no long-term commitment, is paying for a point transfer into his in-laws account. (I'm assuming they get along very well). Perhaps they would consider adding him or their daughter as associates to help with the transfer and reservation details.

With a transfer, his in-laws' account would control the reservation (rather than a broker/stranger-owner).

Good luck with ROFR - I agree than $57/point for SSR is a long shot (if that is what you really offered). If that slips by, I'd quit worrying about the purchase making sense and just enjoy it.

 

[Dean]

IMO, buying another timeshare and using it to exchange into DVC has some real disadvantages for mwagner:

As noted, it will take time and effort to learn the exchange system (which could change). More concerning (IM0), it would be difficult to coordinate specific dates with his in-laws when they want to travel together. Very possible that what the OP wants would not be an option in the system or even if it were, his timeshare resort may not have enough "juice" to get what he wants.

Perhaps a better option for him to consider - with less risk and no long-term commitment, is paying for a point transfer into his in-laws account. (I'm assuming they get along very well). Perhaps they would consider adding him or their daughter as associates to help with the transfer and reservation details.

With a transfer, his in-laws' account would control the reservation (rather than a broker/stranger-owner).

Good luck with ROFR - I agree than $57/point for SSR is a long shot (if that is what you really offered). If that slips by, I'd quit worrying about the purchase making sense and just enjoy it.

IMO buying in to other timeshares with a main component being trading in to DVC is a mistake for all but the most knowledgeable people who know both DVC and timeshares. It can work, it does for me, but we're flexible in unit size, month and resort. However, for many looking at Disney and other trips as well, a non DVC timeshare is often the best single option. Even better if there's a chance of using it to trade in to DVC but it'd be difficult to count on. That said, for those with a bit of a gambler's mentality, it can be cheaper in some situations. However, the flexibility of using a DVC ownership with differing numbers of nights, times of years, resorts and unit size will reduce or remove the difference for many and often make DVC the clear best choice.

As an example, say I bought 15000 Bluegreen points with the intent of only using them for DVC exchanges and that I fit into a group that was possible for this to be a workable plan (I do). Up front costs zero, yearly costs around $1200 (could easily get the price cheaper but more complicated). RCI included, exchange fee plus resort services fee around $300 per exchange or $1500 per week total (mine are currently in the $600-650 range per week inclusive depending). Suppose I consistently was able to get a 1 BR at SSR or OKW but at times a 2 BR and at times other resorts, esp AKV (I have done better than that). That's roughly equivalent to 275-300 points a year. 275 points at SSR would be in the neighborhood of $17K buy in and $1375 a yr. So if you ONLY used the BG points for DVC and once a year, it's a lot cheaper up front, a little more yearly (ignoring the TMV), you have other options but more risk and limitations specifically for DVC. Owning DVC you have the flexibility of using DVC in a more variable way for less or more nights, smaller or larger units, etc., as well as better options at higher end DVC resorts. Each option has it's pros and cons, BG (as a representative of other timeshare options) would be far better for many non Disney plus Disney trips, DVC better for DVC trips only at a modest long term higher cost. The real advantage to non DVC timeshares comes with increased volume and other choices built in. For example, my eight 2BR villas at Gatlinburg next summer for our vow renewal.

Anytime someone asks me what's the best timeshare to buy (a question I get commonly), my response is to find out how they want to use it, how flexible they are, what their budget is, where they like to go, their vacation style (just a place to sleep or luxury condo), likely length of trips and how well and how far in advance they can plan. While a little less broad and variable, these questions apply to buying DVC as well. And often the answer is the same, buying any timeshare is not reasonable for that situation. Otherwise I am partial to the points mini systems like DVC, Bluegreen, Wyndham, etc. Maybe a little less so for Marriott's points system due to costs though I find the savings of buying a Marriott non points week is often a great deal even with the current and future reductions in options.

 

[CarolMN]

IMO buying in to other timeshares with a main component being trading in to DVC is a mistake for all but the most knowledgeable people who know both DVC and timeshares. It can work, it does for me, but we're flexible in unit size, month and resort. However, for many looking at Disney and other trips as well, a non DVC timeshare is often the best single option. Even better if there's a chance of using it to trade in to DVC but it'd be difficult to count on. That said, for those with a bit of a gambler's mentality, it can be cheaper in some situations. However, the flexibility of using a DVC ownership with differing numbers of nights, times of years, resorts and unit size will reduce or remove the difference for many and often make DVC the clear best choice.

As an example, say I bought 15000 Bluegreen points with the intent of only using them for DVC exchanges and that I fit into a group that was possible for this to be a workable plan (I do). Up front costs zero, yearly costs around $1200 (could easily get the price cheaper but more complicated). RCI included, exchange fee plus resort services fee around $300 per exchange or $1500 per week total (mine are currently in the $600-650 range per week inclusive depending). Suppose I consistently was able to get a 1 BR at SSR or OKW but at times a 2 BR and at times other resorts, esp AKV (I have done better than that). That's roughly equivalent to 275-300 points a year. 275 points at SSR would be in the neighborhood of $17K buy in and $1375 a yr. So if you ONLY used the BG points for DVC and once a year, it's a lot cheaper up front, a little more yearly (ignoring the TMV), you have other options but more risk and limitations specifically for DVC. Owning DVC you have the flexibility of using DVC in a more variable way for less or more nights, smaller or larger units, etc., as well as better options at higher end DVC resorts. Each option has it's pros and cons, BG (as a representative of other timeshare options) would be far better for many non Disney plus Disney trips, DVC better for DVC trips only at a modest long term higher cost. The real advantage to non DVC timeshares comes with increased volume and other choices built in. For example, my eight 2BR villas at Gatlinburg next summer for our vow renewal.

Anytime someone asks me what's the best timeshare to buy (a question I get commonly), my response is to find out how they want to use it, how flexible they are, what their budget is, where they like to go, their vacation style (just a place to sleep or luxury condo), likely length of trips and how well and how far in advance they can plan. While a little less broad and variable, these questions apply to buying DVC as well. And often the answer is the same, buying any timeshare is not reasonable for that situation. Otherwise I am partial to the points mini systems like DVC, Bluegreen, Wyndham, etc. Maybe a little less so for Marriott's points system due to costs though I find the savings of buying a Marriott non points week is often a great deal even with the current and future reductions in options.

I agree with you. In the OP's case, the family, particularly his wife, is set on staying on site for their trips. If that is what they want to do on a regular basis, then another timeshare is not going to make them happy, even if it is quite a bit less expensive.

FWIW, it seems the OP's decision has already been made and he is hoping to hear he made a good financial decision for his family. Amusing they can afford to vacation at WDW on a regular basis and really want to be on site, I think they did.

I know you post mainly for the others who read these threads and appreciate the insights you offer. I'm very sure they are helpful to those considering a DVC purchase - especially those who may be better served (or satisfied with) with a non-DVC option. Always good to make informed decisions!

 

[Dean]

I agree with you. In the OP's case, the family, particularly his wife, is set on staying on site for their trips. If that is what they want to do on a regular basis, then another timeshare is not going to make them happy, even if it is quite a bit less expensive.

FWIW, it seems the OP's decision has already been made and he is hoping to hear he made a good financial decision for his family. Amusing they can afford to vacation at WDW on a regular basis and really want to be on site, I think they did.

I know you post mainly for the others who read these threads and appreciate the insights you offer. I'm very sure they are helpful to those considering a DVC purchase - especially those who may be better served (or satisfied with) with a non-DVC option. Always good to make informed decisions!

Thanks for the acknowledgments. We don't know the rest of the story or their other plans or whether they've even considered that off site is a viable option. One approach when a close family member that you often travel with owns DVC is for the other party to buy something else and "share". Maybe the in-laws own a lot more points than they need and a complementary arrangement would be best. Or it might be the inlays don't have extra points and use them all and more DVC points would be best. One thing I've seen with parents of adult children that own Dvc when the "kids" look to buy DVC themselves is that there are several styles/preferences that come to light. Specifically I've seen several situations where the adult children were proceeding or even bought where the in-laws were upset. Thus I'd suggest sitting down and talking to them before making final decisions. It might be they want to gift it or sell it or it might be they want to add on themselves. Attitudes and preferences that can add or reduce stress depending on specifics.

 

[mwwagner]

IMO, buying another timeshare and using it to exchange into DVC has some real disadvantages for mwagner:

As noted, it will take time and effort to learn the exchange system (which could change). More concerning (IM0), it would be difficult to coordinate specific dates with his in-laws when they want to travel together. Very possible that what the OP wants would not be an option in the system or even if it were, his timeshare resort may not have enough "juice" to get what he wants.

Perhaps a better option for him to consider - with less risk and no long-term commitment, is paying for a point transfer into his in-laws account. (I'm assuming they get along very well). Perhaps they would consider adding him or their daughter as associates to help with the transfer and reservation details.

With a transfer, his in-laws' account would control the reservation (rather than a broker/stranger-owner).

Good luck with ROFR - I agree than $57/point for SSR is a long shot (if that is what you really offered). If that slips by, I'd quit worrying about the purchase making sense and just enjoy it.

Thanks for the insight. I agree that another timeshare is not an option for us. You are also right that we are committed to this purchase and while confirmation of a wise financial choice is always welcome, I very much appreciate hearing all about the "things I might not have considered" so as to further affirm my pending purchase. Because I know that we will be at WDW everyone 1-2 years for the next 20 years, purchase into DVC was a pretty clear choice for us. At first, the varied responses did seem a bit pessimistic to me but I think folks are just playing devil's advocate to help people make full informed decisions and that is all good with me!!

Your idea to rent and transfer points into my in-laws account is a good one for a casual visitor but because we will be there so frequently, the long term commitment doesn't scare me near as much as paying $11-14 per point when my cost (if this long shot contract goes through) would be $6.50 per point per year.

And yes, we have an accepted offer at $57 per point

 

[JimMIA]

IMO, buying another timeshare and using it to exchange into DVC has some real disadvantages for mwagner:

As noted, it will take time and effort to learn the exchange system (which could change).

Of course. However, with the help of friends like Dean, I have not found that as intimidating a task in practice as many DVC owners imagine. RCI is learnable. In fact, with Wyndham/RCI, it's actually quite simple.

More concerning (IM0), it would be difficult to coordinate specific dates with his in-laws when they want to travel together.

Maybe yes, maybe no. And it would depend greatly on where they want to stay. If they want BCV during F&W, they should expect difficulty, start early, and back up with a points ressie.

OTOH, just this week, there is a week in an SSR 1 BR available starting 12/12 and my RCI/DVC OKW 2BR exchange last year was 12/14-12/21, which I matched in late JULY!

Those both would be virtually impossible using DVC points.

Very possible that what the OP wants would not be an option in the system or even if it were, his timeshare resort may not have enough "juice" to get what he wants.

Well, if anyone buys something that doesn't have enough trading power to get what they want, shame on them. That's one of the things you have to learn about RCI. You can't just buy something and hope for the best. And of course, trading power and the methods used are both moving targets and you have to understand that. You can't just walk in blindly.

I would never recommend anyone buying any timeshare for the primary purpose of exchanging unless they are really knowledgeable. The primary reason I suggested that to OP was for the value in providing vacations OTHER THAN DVC, while still having the possibility to exchange into DVC -- as a compliment to their in-laws DVC holding to expand everybody's options.

Perhaps a better option for him to consider - with less risk and no long-term commitment, is paying for a point transfer into his in-laws account.

I agree with this, and it might be the best idea yet.

 

[DizBub]

Interesting thread.

OP, there are too many points to agree with and or quote. Just wanted to jump in and add that we are a family that travels together once or twice per year. We are owners and have a child that is an owner. We both own at BLT and each have contracts at different resorts. We have 200 more points than they do.

We don't always stay at the same resorts at the same time, it's nice to be together but not totally necessary. We make it work and are very happy with our memberships.

Best of luck with ROFR.

 

[djohn06]

To the OP - You will save a significant amount vs. online booking. I rent points all the time but I know tons of people who won't rent because they don't want a "Craig's list" like experience when buying a room. Just won't work for them.

Your strategy is sound and you want to enjoy life not worry about opportunity cost on a timeshare.

Sometimes folks get really deep in the woods on a simple question.

Now if someone wants to get complex and wants a timeshare portfolio certainly a combination of "eBay special" resorts that you buy for closing costs and then trade into RCI will win hands down. Reality is, this represents a very few select owners who even want to do this. No need to bring this strategy up. It isn't about the cheapest route in WDW, rather will I save money buying DVC and staying at deluxe resorts or am I better paying out of pocket at rates 10 to 30 percent off.

Let's start another thread on RCI and renting points. This is Not helping the OP at all.

 

[JimMIA]

OP -- since you have already agreed to purchase this contract, I would stop worrying about the cost/reward equation for this contract. I know you are very anxious about ROFR, but rehashing the relative value of the deal won't change the outcome of ROFR.

I'd do two things.

One is I would start planning my first DVC vacation in case you get past ROFR.

The other thing I would do is to rethink your math assuming you don't pass ROFR and have to pay mid-$70's to pass, as the ROFR thread suggests. While $20 per point sounds like a lot, it's really only $3,000 plus a little more possibly in closing costs, so it shouldn't really change the math that much.

If paying mid-$70's to pass is a deal breaker, then you have a number of good suggestions of other options in several of the posts in this thread.

My personal fave is Carol's suggestion of renting point transfers into your in-laws account -- especially as an interim solution to let you try out DVC while you thoroughly research your options.

 

[davedmaine]

Op - seems like you should have asked all these questions before you purchased

 

[mwwagner]

Sometimes folks get really deep in the woods on a simple question.

....will I save money buying DVC and staying at deluxe resorts or am I better paying out of pocket at rates 10 to 30 percent off.

Let's start another thread on RCI and renting points. This is Not helping the OP at all.

Thanks...you boiled my question down to the nuts.

 

[mwwagner]

Op - seems like you should have asked all these questions before you purchased

I respectfully disagree on the premise that my original (and really only) question was a pretty simple one:

Is DVC really that expensive? It was asked in response to many threads I saw talking about how expensive it was and when I do the math it is FAR LESS expensive than staying cash for those who fit certain use criteria (myself included). I was looking to find out if there was something I was missing....Haven't found it yet thankfully.

While I have enjoyed and appreciate all of the responses that I have received, many go far beyond answering my original question. Perhaps the robust response that others have been kind enough to share with me has given you the impression that I decided blindly but I assure that was not the case. I am very confident in my decision to purchase. First, I know It will provide years of savings for my family. And Second (because they say always have a plan B), even if someone brought up something in this thread that caused me to change my mind (as your post suggests might happen), I could sell the contract I have for $2000+ more than I am buying with relative easy. That's the kind of mistake that I am ok making

 

[mwwagner]

OP -- since you have already agreed to purchase this contract, I would stop worrying about the cost/reward equation for this contract. I know you are very anxious about ROFR, but rehashing the relative value of the deal won't change the outcome of ROFR.

I'd do two things.

One is I would start planning my first DVC vacation in case you get past ROFR.

The other thing I would do is to rethink your math assuming you don't pass ROFR and have to pay mid-$70's to pass, as the ROFR thread suggests. While $20 per point sounds like a lot, it's really only $3,000 plus a little more possibly in closing costs, so it shouldn't really change the math that much.

If paying mid-$70's to pass is a deal breaker, then you have a number of good suggestions of other options in several of the posts in this thread.

My personal fave is Carol's suggestion of renting point transfers into your in-laws account -- especially as an interim solution to let you try out DVC while you thoroughly research your options.

Thanks for this. All very well received. You are right, and I think I also mentioned in one of my early posts that DVC represents a good deal to me even at market rates in the $70's.

I may utilize Carol's suggestion to rent points as an interim solution if this contract gets nabbed and I can't find another in time. Hopefully not though as I need no further trial runs with DVC. I know I'm a rookie compared to most on DIS but I've stayed at DVC resorts 7 times in the last 5-6 years (wife is at 25 visits-14 DVC) and that is more than enough for us to know that we want in.

 

[traceyg]

I'm sure to get flamed for this but.... it's all relative really. Going to Disney isn't a necessity it's a luxury. In that sense it's not really about getting a good deal, financing, what time you go, direct or resale...it's about how much you'd put on that value.
I am the poster child of everything to do wrong according to the gurus. I bought direct, financed and everything else. We have two very good incomes so it's not a huge deal every month when Disney pulls that money out of our account. We have five kids who are big eaters. That alone pretty much makes us want a kitchen. I figure the amount we save on eating out makes up for what we've paid in extra fees for buying direct (not that I am validating anything).
My three year old has been three times now. He remembers going. He will randomly ask when we are going back and reminds us frequently that he misses Mickey. My father was diagnosed with cancer right before we went this June. He waited on the radiation to coincide for after he got back. My son's favorite experience was sitting with grandpa on his scooter...go figure! lol
Again, I'm not justifying anything but how can you put a price on any of that?
Yes, we stay on site. Yes, we stay at DVC properties. We've stayed DVC many times on rented points but found that being in control of when we book, and not having a fear of losing money was worth buying our own contract.
Again, my own bias.... vacations aren't a necessity, especially Disney vacations. The value that you make out of your ownership is what it's worth to YOU.
FWIW- I'd buy again. It's been worth every inflated penny I've ever paid.

 

[disBOBney]

It's been worth every inflated penny I've ever paid.

Ditto

 

[peace_all]

The advantages of buying DVC to staying onsite make sense. I have personally done some quite deep financial analysis of it, taking into account time value of money and inflation. In the long run the savings are exponential.

We are purchasing for the advantage of also possibly staying in California, Hawaii and Hilton Head. So with the internal trades, SSR made financial sense. Also in the long run if we want to go down for the resort feel we felt SSR was a nice fringe resort to just enjoy DTD and golf.

Financially speaking SSR is the most cost effective. You also have to be vigilant about the 7month period for trades though. We would of picked OKW but wanted a longer contract length which also creates more value.

In regards to appreciation, as long as inflation rises, the points will appreciate in value to an extent, however, as they near closer to the end of their lifespan, they will drop in price. Also they are market sensitive to financial woes, as they are a considered a luxury item, and will lower in value first.

 

[Dean]

I'm sure to get flamed for this but.... it's all relative really. Going to Disney isn't a necessity it's a luxury. In that sense it's not really about getting a good deal, financing, what time you go, direct or resale...it's about how much you'd put on that value.
I am the poster child of everything to do wrong according to the gurus. I bought direct, financed and everything else. We have two very good incomes so it's not a huge deal every month when Disney pulls that money out of our account. We have five kids who are big eaters. That alone pretty much makes us want a kitchen. I figure the amount we save on eating out makes up for what we've paid in extra fees for buying direct (not that I am validating anything).
My three year old has been three times now. He remembers going. He will randomly ask when we are going back and reminds us frequently that he misses Mickey. My father was diagnosed with cancer right before we went this June. He waited on the radiation to coincide for after he got back. My son's favorite experience was sitting with grandpa on his scooter...go figure! lol
Again, I'm not justifying anything but how can you put a price on any of that?
Yes, we stay on site. Yes, we stay at DVC properties. We've stayed DVC many times on rented points but found that being in control of when we book, and not having a fear of losing money was worth buying our own contract.
Again, my own bias.... vacations aren't a necessity, especially Disney vacations. The value that you make out of your ownership is what it's worth to YOU.
FWIW- I'd buy again. It's been worth every inflated penny I've ever paid.

No doubt it's a luxury which means that only those that can truly afford it should play, basically those that could lose the investment completely tomorrow without being harmed. We've all made choices that weren't the best ones as well as choices that were good ones. However, this issue almost always comes up with someone looking to buy in, add on or cancel a retail purchase they didn't fully understand. That someone made a choice that wasn't the best but worked out should not deter us from helping potential buyers make the best choice for themselves and providing that info. Unfortunately I think some try to get potential buyers to make less than perfect choices simply to validate their own choices.

 

[crisi]

I'm sure to get flamed for this but.... it's all relative really. Going to Disney isn't a necessity it's a luxury. In that sense it's not really about getting a good deal, financing, what time you go, direct or resale...it's about how much you'd put on that value.
I am the poster child of everything to do wrong according to the gurus. I bought direct, financed and everything else. We have two very good incomes so it's not a huge deal every month when Disney pulls that money out of our account. We have five kids who are big eaters. That alone pretty much makes us want a kitchen. I figure the amount we save on eating out makes up for what we've paid in extra fees for buying direct (not that I am validating anything).
My three year old has been three times now. He remembers going. He will randomly ask when we are going back and reminds us frequently that he misses Mickey. My father was diagnosed with cancer right before we went this June. He waited on the radiation to coincide for after he got back. My son's favorite experience was sitting with grandpa on his scooter...go figure! lol
Again, I'm not justifying anything but how can you put a price on any of that?
Yes, we stay on site. Yes, we stay at DVC properties. We've stayed DVC many times on rented points but found that being in control of when we book, and not having a fear of losing money was worth buying our own contract.
Again, my own bias.... vacations aren't a necessity, especially Disney vacations. The value that you make out of your ownership is what it's worth to YOU.
FWIW- I'd buy again. It's been worth every inflated penny I've ever paid.

Not flaming, but how are you getting five kids through college? We have two very good incomes - and saving for TWO to go through college was a challenge, I can't imagine five.

And for us, vacations are a luxury, but college tuition wasn't - I don't want my kids graduating with $40k in debt. With two very good incomes, we knew there wasn't a snowball's chance they'd see a penny in aid.

 

[dvcdream4fld]

I'm a new owner. I guess I finally want to chime in on this whole value thing, because I see flaws in these argument and I just wanted state my opinion. Firstly, I'm frugal, and I enjoy finding the best value for my money. Before buying in, I waited ten years to see if DVC resale market was stable. For the most part, if you bought resale in the last 10 years you will have made money from selling your timeshare today, which generally, you can't say that about most timeshares. Second, I bought enough points at ssr cash so that I can go to disney once per year and sell the remaining points to cover my maintenance fees. This year, I sold some points at estimated profit of $400 and booked a studio which would have costed me $300 to $500 per night. My plan is to use the dvc timeshare in the same way until resale prices start decreasing and then decide at that point whether I should sell to recoup my initial investment. Honestly,