Is Disney World ready for a fifth theme park?

[lockedoutlogic]

How can you answer for a fortune company? How would you know any of this?

People did go into Animal Kingdom after it opened. I know because I was there.


Currently this is all rumor and speculation, but it is fun to play on possibilities.

because disney is one of the largest entertainment companies on earth...and is a public traded juggernaut that is a component of the Dow 30...

so its no secret how we "know"...it is the nature of the beast

they are concerned with stock price, leveraged buyouts of new assets, dividends, and rich benefit packages for the executives and board members...

that is a fact.

this is not a mom and pop cartoon shop anymore...

so anything that would incur costs without significantly adding new and guaranteed revenue...a new park in the saturated market at WDW would be a very good one...as they are expensive to build and 100X that longterm to operate...is not in the plans or in management's crosshairs at this time.

that doesn't even take into the account all the other issues brought up...the big ones being infrastructure, labor, operating costs, and diminishing returns...all of which are dead on.

why are they so concerned with building parks in china? ask yourself...perhaps trying to tap a billion people AND secure the longterm trade arrangements that allow them to make billions annually peddling low quality, high profit crap in walmarts?

hmmm...this business thing isn't so tough to figure out after all

 

[lockedoutlogic]

and animal kingdom and mgm are most definitely half day parks...

mgm due to its tiny size as compared to the other gates...animal kingdom due to its lack of quality attractions and...by and large...an adult distaste for zoo/animal environments...that makes the draw somewhat one dimensional.

neither can stand next to the other two in regards to draw and revenue...and that being a known issue...would make further gates a fools errand at this point

 

[Figment632]

It would do more harm then good. But there is no chance it will happen in the next 20 years anyway.

 

[Faldred]

Of course it's fun to speculate about what a theoretical 5th gate might look like, but frankly, if I had a magic wand that gave me unlimited budget and control, I'd be spending at least the next decade improving (and expanding) the existing four parks before even considering breaking ground on #5.

And that's even if said magic wand could even resolve the labor, infrastructure, and transportation issues for me.

There's simply too much that can and should still be done with what's already there.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I heard Disney was in talks with the Kardashians to theme a park around them! It's the right demographic, it'd be cheap and best of all they wouldn't have to be concerned about quality!

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

However The majority of people consider them a half day park whether you do or not. That's just how it is. Add that to the economy and less people staying for long trips, and you get what we have now.

Your going to say that you are going to do these in half a day? Just the shows alone will take you all day not to mention Fantasmic starts lining up an hour or more before the show starts. And that is without lines.

So it is not just how it is. Now you can argue Animal Kingdom, but If you do that park correctly if your lucky you should get done around 3:30 after Lion King, Nemo, Safari, Dinosaur, and seeing all the animals around the Oasis and Discovery Island.


Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith (25 min)
Star Tours (25min)
The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror(25 min)
Toy Story Mania!
Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show(45 min
Beauty and the Beast – Live on Stage (45 min
Disney Junior – Live on Stage(30+)
Disney Channel Rocks
Pixar Pals Countdown to Fun!
The American Idol Experience (45 min)
Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular!(45 min)
The Great Movie Ride (30 min)
Muppet Vision 3-D (20 min)
Voyage of The Little Mermaid (25 min)
Studio Backlot Tour (30 +)
Walt Disney: One Man's Dream (45+min)
The Magic of Disney Animation (45+min)
"Honey, I Shrunk the Kids" Movie Set Adventure
Sounds Dangerous with Drew Carey (30 min)

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

Of course it's fun to speculate about what a theoretical 5th gate might look like, but frankly, if I had a magic wand that gave me unlimited budget and control, I'd be spending at least the next decade improving (and expanding) the existing four parks before even considering breaking ground on #5.

And that's even if said magic wand could even resolve the labor, infrastructure, and transportation issues for me.

There's simply too much that can and should still be done with what's already there.

Well put! I think there is plenty to do currently in the parks now.

 

[nytimez]

Your going to say that you are going to do these in half a day? Just the shows alone will take you all day not to mention Fantasmic starts lining up an hour or more before the show starts. And that is without lines.

So it is not just how it is. Now you can argue Animal Kingdom, but If you do that park correctly if your lucky you should get done around 3:30 after Lion King, Nemo, Safari, Dinosaur, and seeing all the animals around the Oasis and Discovery Island.


Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith (25 min)
Star Tours (25min)
The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror(25 min)
Toy Story Mania!
Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show(45 min
Beauty and the Beast – Live on Stage (45 min
Disney Junior – Live on Stage(30+)
Disney Channel Rocks
Pixar Pals Countdown to Fun!
The American Idol Experience (45 min)
Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular!(45 min)
The Great Movie Ride (30 min)
Muppet Vision 3-D (20 min)
Voyage of The Little Mermaid (25 min)
Studio Backlot Tour (30 +)
Walt Disney: One Man's Dream (45+min)
The Magic of Disney Animation (45+min)
"Honey, I Shrunk the Kids" Movie Set Adventure
Sounds Dangerous with Drew Carey (30 min)

For most of us, DHS is a half-day park or less. In fact, I've often gone there early-ish (mid-morning), gotten my TSM FPs, then taken the boat to Epcot and strolled around WS for a little while. I return to DHS in the late afternoon and hit all the headliners (including TSM, with the FPs) and pretty much anything else I want to do.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

Your going to say that you are going to do these in half a day? Just the shows alone will take you all day not to mention Fantasmic starts lining up an hour or more before the show starts. And that is without lines.

So it is not just how it is. Now you can argue Animal Kingdom, but If you do that park correctly if your lucky you should get done around 3:30 after Lion King, Nemo, Safari, Dinosaur, and seeing all the animals around the Oasis and Discovery Island.


Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith (25 min)
Star Tours (25min)
The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror(25 min)
Toy Story Mania!
Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show(45 min
Beauty and the Beast – Live on Stage (45 min
Disney Junior – Live on Stage(30+)
Disney Channel Rocks
Pixar Pals Countdown to Fun!
The American Idol Experience (45 min)
Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular!(45 min)
The Great Movie Ride (30 min)
Muppet Vision 3-D (20 min)
Voyage of The Little Mermaid (25 min)
Studio Backlot Tour (30 +)
Walt Disney: One Man's Dream (45+min)
The Magic of Disney Animation (45+min)
"Honey, I Shrunk the Kids" Movie Set Adventure
Sounds Dangerous with Drew Carey (30 min)

Many people don't see all the shows and parades. Many people also skip 1 mans dream. Sounds Dangerous I believe is closed.

Personally I could spend two days in MGM. I love watching all the street shows. However I recognize I'm in the minority for that. It's something we have to live with. Everyone has different amounts of time they want to spend in certain parks.

(I know I'm going to get killed on the boards for this but...)

I personally don't like spending long in World Showcase. I love eating around the world and the street shows, but I don't like shopping and I can't Drink so for me there isn't as much to do.

That's just how it is.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

For most of us, DHS is a half-day park or less. In fact, I've often gone there early-ish (mid-morning), gotten my TSM FPs, then taken the boat to Epcot and strolled around WS for a little while. I return to DHS in the late afternoon and hit all the headliners (including TSM, with the FPs) and pretty much anything else I want to do.

Just because you don't like doing any of the attractions at DHS that it is a half day park. The park will take 90 percent of the day to get through. If I only enjoyed Splash Mountain Thunder Mountain and Space Mountain, and then I left to go to Epcot, the park is still a full day whether I go on all the rides or not. I can't just say oh, that took me a half a day because most of the rides are for kids. It takes the entire day to experience all of that. Actually MK will take more than a day to see everything.

For someone that is a frequent visitor to DHS they may not want to do some of the rides over again. For newer guests it would take much longer to get through that park based on the shows alone.

 

[mcd2745]

and animal kingdom and mgm are most definitely half day parks...

mgm due to its tiny size as compared to the other gates...animal kingdom due to its lack of quality attractions and...by and large...an adult distaste for zoo/animal environments...that makes the draw somewhat one dimensional.

neither can stand next to the other two in regards to draw and revenue...and that being a known issue...would make further gates a fools errand at this point

I've never agreed with the idea that they are half-day parks. At least not as a blanket statement. For people going to WDW for their first or second time or maybe it's been a real long time since the last visit...they are full day parks if they want to do "everything" (or close to it). For people who go regularly and have already experienced everything at least once and know what they enjoy and what they don't care for...sure, they can be half-day parks.

That said, I agree there is no business sense for Disney to build a 5th gate and that improving and expanding the current 4 is the smart thing to do. Would we as guests/fans love to see one? Of course. And I don't think there is another theme or concept that would generate more interest and excitement than the dark/Villains concept. But I certainly don't expect to ever see one.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

I've never agreed with the idea that they are half-day parks. At least not as a blanket statement. For people going to WDW for their first or second time or maybe it's been a real long time since the last visit...they are full day parks if they want to do "everything" (or close to it). For people who go regularly and have already experienced everything at least once and know what they enjoy and what they don't care for...sure, they can be half-day parks.

That said, I agree there is no business sense for Disney to build a 5th gate and that improving and expanding the current 4 is the smart thing to do. Would we as guests/fans love to see one? Of course. And I don't think there is another theme or concept that would generate more interest and excitement than the dark/Villains concept. But I certainly don't expect to ever see one.

Great point! Part of me also agrees on the 5th gate problem. I think it might be a tipping point. I would also like to see Disney's version of a ski resort out west. I think that would also be something. We will have to see what happens with Aulani. Take that same resort idea and put it in Colorado and that might be interesting. Tubing, Skiing, Movies, Signature restaurants, and Tours would be a great vacation in winter as well as spring.

 

[nytimez]

Just because you don't like doing any of the attractions at DHS that it is a half day park. The park will take 90 percent of the day to get through. If I only enjoyed Splash Mountain Thunder Mountain and Space Mountain, and then I left to go to Epcot, the park is still a full day whether I go on all the rides or not. I can't just say oh, that took me a half a day because most of the rides are for kids. It takes the entire day to experience all of that. Actually MK will take more than a day to see everything.

For someone that is a frequent visitor to DHS they may not want to do some of the rides over again. For newer guests it would take much longer to get through that park based on the shows alone.

And just because you spend a whole day there doesn't make it a whole day park, either. See how that works?

Few people will do everything in the park in any case. If you have no little kids, you're not doing Playhouse Disney. If you don't have little girls, you may not be inclined to do Mermaid or Beast.

All your times are way off, by the way, for much of the year. And Sounds Dangerous is closed. And it assumes no FPs. Trust me -- I've done nearly everything worth doing in DHS in half a day, without rushing or crazy planning.

I've never agreed with the idea that they are half-day parks. At least not as a blanket statement. For people going to WDW for their first or second time or maybe it's been a real long time since the last visit...they are full day parks if they want to do "everything" (or close to it). For people who go regularly and have already experienced everything at least once and know what they enjoy and what they don't care for...sure, they can be half-day parks.

I've spent an entire day in AK and haven't done everything (I don't get there at rope drop, however) -- but I also get why most people don't consider it a full-day park.

 

[mitros]

I think so, the parks are so darned crowded. Even during the slow times it seems to be crowded. Does anyone else experience this? Once Art of Animation opens there will be 2000 more rooms.

What theme do you think Disney should go with IF they built a new park?

Story here! http://goo.gl/IS01j

OK, I did not even bother to read the other posts, I'm just jumping in with my opinion. WDW has been ultra crowded for some time now. the Magic Kingdom is the worst. They are adding all of this new stuff on the SAME OLD FOOTPRINT, which means that there will be umpteen bazillion more bodies in the same old space. As Alice Kramden once said, "you can't put 5 pounds of baloney in a two pound bag, which is precisley what they are doing with the Magic Kingdom. They are also putting in soooooo many more rooms which means there will now be a Gazillion more bodies dumped on a no-larger-capacity area. It's just so frustrating, this greed of the Disney corporation, that all they want is more and more people on their property so they can sell even more crap with no regard whatsover for the guests comfort. I could actually go on and on.....but I won't, for now. :{

 

[tjkraz]

People did go into Animal Kingdom after it opened. I know because I was there.

You missed my point. Of course people go into Disney's Animal Kingdom. The problem is if you compare pre-DAK to post-DAK, the opening of the 4th park didn't cause guests to extend their stays by any substantial degree. Instead all they did was shift their schedules. Instead of spending 3 days (out of 7) at the Magic Kingdom, your typical family may have switched to 2 days at MK and 1 at Animal Kingdom.

Problem is that doesn't make any more money for Disney to justify the extra gate.

Put it this way: If Disney opens a 5th park, their operating expenses grow by about 25%. They need more ride toll booth attendants, security, Guest Relations, ride attendants, restaurant staff, gift shop clerks, and so on. They also need to pay for utilities, maintenance, landscaping and all other expenses associated with running a multi-billion dollar park.

So Disney's expenditures grow about about 1/4. How would they cover that added expense? Can you honestly say that if Disney opened a 5th park, you would increase your own personal spending by 25% with every single trip you take?

Very few people would do that. As I illustrated, most people would just keep spending the same amount of money, while shifting their park schedules. They'll reduce their time at MK, Epcot, DHS and DAK to squeeze in a day or two at the 5th park. They'll skip the Epcot t-shirt and buy a 5th park shirt.

End result is Disney's spending millions to run a park without any real prospect of added revenues covering added expenses.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

And just because you spend a whole day there doesn't make it a whole day park, either. See how that works?

Few people will do everything in the park in any case. If you have no little kids, you're not doing Playhouse Disney. If you don't have little girls, you may not be inclined to do Mermaid or Beast.

All your times are way off, by the way, for much of the year. And Sounds Dangerous is closed. And it assumes no FPs. Trust me -- I've done nearly everything worth doing in DHS in half a day, without rushing or crazy planning.



I've spent an entire day in AK and haven't done everything (I don't get there at rope drop, however) -- but I also get why most people don't consider it a full-day park.

Strictly speaking you would be going on rides and experiencing attractions, parades and entertainment shows. You wouldn't just be sitting in the park doing nothing and it would still take most of the day.

You don't need to be a child to visit mermaid. My other half really enjoys that attraction.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

OK, I did not even bother to read the other posts, I'm just jumping in with my opinion. WDW has been ultra crowded for some time now. the Magic Kingdom is the worst. They are adding all of this new stuff on the SAME OLD FOOTPRINT, which means that there will be umpteen bazillion more bodies in the same old space. As Alice Kramden once said, "you can't put 5 pounds of baloney in a two pound bag, which is precisley what they are doing with the Magic Kingdom. They are also putting in soooooo many more rooms which means there will now be a Gazillion more bodies dumped on a no-larger-capacity area. It's just so frustrating, this greed of the Disney corporation, that all they want is more and more people on their property so they can sell even more crap with no regard whatsover for the guests comfort. I could actually go on and on.....but I won't, for now. :{

Thats a good point. A new footprint would be nice to spread things out. . . .

 

[nytimez]

Strictly speaking you would be going on rides and experiencing attractions, parades and entertainment shows. You wouldn't just be sitting in the park doing nothing and it would still take most of the day.

You don't need to be a child to visit mermaid. My other half really enjoys that attraction.

...and that still doesn't make it a full-day park for most people. You can argue this all you want... but just because it's a full-day park for you doesn't mean it's a full-day park for everyone else.

It's not.

It was rushed to completion to beat Universal and wasn't ready from primetime when it opened, and they've been playing catchup ever since -- and they still haven't caught up.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

Put it this way: If Disney opens a 5th park, their operating expenses grow by about 25%. They need more ride toll booth attendants, security, Guest Relations, ride attendants, restaurant staff, gift shop clerks, and so on. They also need to pay for utilities, maintenance, landscaping and all other expenses associated with running a multi-billion dollar park.

So Disney's expenditures grow about about 1/4. How would they cover that added expense? Can you honestly say that if Disney opened a 5th park, you would increase your own personal spending by 25% with every single trip you take?

This is all taking us way off topic. . . Anyway, your talking about expenses. How about the other side of the coin(no pun intended), profit. They would be adding another full day ticket expense of 90+ dollars, plus food, plus merch, plus tours. . . takes money to make money.

Now, they are almost doing the guests a favor buy expanding the current parks. You don't have to pull my chain, I will still visit every year but it will be more crowded.

 

[Faldred]

This is all taking us way off topic. . . Anyway, your talking about expenses. How about the other side of the coin(no pun intended), profit. They would be adding another full day ticket expense of 90+ dollars, plus food, plus merch, plus tours. . . takes money to make money.

You're missing the point -- none of those sales, or at least only a small number of them, would be entirely new. They'd be cannibalized from sales at the other four parks. A family "heading down to Disney" for a week will still be there for a week, spending the same money, just over more area.

I disagree with the statements that the parks are over-crowded now and that a 5th gate would add significantly more overall visitors (on a visitor-day basis) to WDW as a whole. If that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing the nearly continuous discounting of packages from Disney. When those start drying up, then maybe I'll believe WDW is operating anywhere near capacity and needs to expand.