Is Disney World ready for a fifth theme park?

[ASteelersMidget]

The network adapter on the back of my PS2 would like to disagree with you. The capability was there, but it was under-developed given that you had to buy an add-on (I used credit card loyalty points for mine) plus buy a compatible game.

Exactly. You had to buy an add-on. There for the system by itself had no online capabilities. Or at least that's how I see it. All of the PS2 owners I knew (many people) still don't know it was possible.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Exactly. You had to buy an add-on. There for the system by itself had no online capabilities. Or at least that's how I see it. All of the PS2 owners I knew (many people) still don't know it was possible.

not to interrupt this highly sensitive and important exchange...

but if you re-read i wrote...i did not say that PS2 had web capability...

 

[ASteelersMidget]

not to interrupt this highly sensitive and important exchange...

but if you re-read i wrote...i did not say that PS2 had web capability...

-facepalm-

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

I'm not arguing with you, BUT if attendance is so flat...why do the parks seem so much for full than in years past?

Has Disney gotten that good at filling the parks during low season, OR are they staffing the parks less, and lowering the capacity per hour of the rides?

Just curious.

I totally agree, the parks are definitely more "intimate" LOL I go several times a year and it feels like there are ALOT more people going. Maybe they are not at capacity but they are having a larger frequency of larger numbers of guests

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I totally agree, the parks are definitely more "intimate" LOL I go several times a year and it feels like there are ALOT more people going. Maybe they are not at capacity but they are having a larger frequency of larger numbers of guests

Gate Attendance is reported quite simply...you walk through, it registers, its reported.

So the Magic Kingdom, had 16,972,000 (rounded) humans walk through the turnstiles in 2010 - which is the last year were figures have been released.

That is down from 2009 and at the rough 2008 levels. When the 2011 numbers are released, they will be down again - by disney's own admission that their bookings and attendance were off in 2011.

So, whatever the "feel" of parks...there are fewer people in them. Simple mathematic figures.


Now....there's alot of ways where your specific travel dates can affect your perceptions...for instance:

We are going at the end of march....which a couple of years ago i would have avoided like the plague...and were able to choose from 5 different DVC sites for our room on 2 1/2 months notice and have full dining options - including cinderellas - open to us...as of now. I just checked.

On the night of 3/23 - a friday - for dinner there are reservations available for 70 of 73 possible locations...and the three that arent are Tuottu Italia, Rainforest (blah) at Downtown, and 'Ohana...thats at 55 days out.

Maybe this stuff doesn't mean anything to you...but if you have been observing WDW crowds as closely as i have for quite awhile...this is shocking.

Even when its not the easter weeks block...from mid february to may 1 has been packed for along time.

And either it will seem rather dead when we get there, or it will seem more crowded than what their bookings are showing.

Either way...it shows a decline in business from the past.

Now...WDW has seen a consistent attendance growth due to increased lodging and changing travel patterns/ levels since its inception...and had this been 2007 or early 2008 and you would say "its getting crowded...we need another park" - i would have been considering it myself.

But that is not what the numbers are showing....they've hit a wall. It's probably economics...but it might be just that they've kinda gotten to their saturation...

And if that's the case...we will never see another park...

I'm not saying that it hasn't been more or less crowded when you were there...but the overall picture is not one where executives would waste 1 second considering dumping billions (yes...thats what a new park would cost...multiple billions) into a gate to "thin out the crowds".

It is just not realistic in any way.

 

[tjkraz]

Gate Attendance is reported quite simply...you walk through, it registers, its reported.

Over the years it has been said that in park hopping situations, only the first admission of the day is counted. So if you go into MK in the morning and Epcot at night, only MK gets credited with the daily visit.

Assuming that's accurate, it does raise the possibility that changing guest habits are leading to increased crowds in the parks. In other words, if people are going to greater lengths to visit the parks late into the evening, it's entirely possible that parks are busier at times without picking up substantial admission numbers.

Even something like the closure of Pleasure Island could be responsible for shuttling more guests back into the parks in the evening (although DTD seems busier and busier every time I visit so I'm not sure how to resolve those two phenomena.)

So the Magic Kingdom, had 16,972,000 (rounded) humans walk through the turnstiles in 2010 - which is the last year were figures have been released.

That is down from 2009 and at the rough 2008 levels. When the 2011 numbers are released, they will be down again - by disney's own admission that their bookings and attendance were off in 2011.

2011 actually looked pretty decent. According to the quarterly earnings calls, the first, third and fourth quarters were each up 1-2% at all domestic parks. 2Q was flat, which they attributed to the movement of Easter from 2Q 2010 to 3Q 2011.

Of course, that's for both DL and WDW parks since Disney stopped reporting independently. We'll have to see what sort of individual numbers the Themed Entertainment Association comes up with for the different parks.

Those semantics aside, I certainly agree with what you're saying. We are seeing shifting of crowds such that summer months and holiday periods are not quite as overwhelmed as they once were while slower periods are gaining guests. That shifting combined with modest annual increases results in noticeably larger crowds on many days.

I also wonder how many guests are still using the post-9/11 years as a frame of reference in judging park attendance. I remember first-hand how barren the parks were for much of 2002 and 2003 as tourism was still struggling to recover from the terror attacks. But THAT was the aberration...not what we see today.

 

[Figment632]

Can we close this thread because with all the money being spent on FLE and AVL does anyone really think this will happen?

 

[Prock]

The property is zoned for 2 more parks, so Disney does have future plans for more parks.

 

[chartle]

The property is zoned for 2 more parks, so Disney does have future plans for more parks.

Just because there is space and its "zoned for two more parks" doesn't mean they need two more parks. It just means at some time they thought they may need 6 parks. Also define what a park is? Right now they have 6 parks which includes 2 water parks. So maybe they already have the 6 they planned.

They are also "zoned" for their own nuclear power plant doesn't mean they need one. Would be a great tour though wouldn't it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District#Objections
http://www.mouseplanet.com/guide/2/Walt-Disney-World

 

[tjkraz]

The property is zoned for 2 more parks, so Disney does have future plans for more parks.

There are a few hundred acres a couple miles up the road from my house which are zoned commercial but that doesn't mean anyone has plans to throw up a strip mall.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

as far as zoning...people always keep their options open.

my office is zoned commercial...but its in trenton, nj - and after we leave for the day - along with 1.2 million state workers and both the state and local police - dealers sell weed out of the parking lot all night.

Does that mean we should "zone" it agricultural too?

And back in 1982...george lucas said that he was going to make 3 movies that occured before Star Wars and 3 after Return of the Jedi to enhance the story...

He never made anything on either end worth noting...

I'm just saying.

 

[Figment632]

The property is zoned for 2 more parks, so Disney does have future plans for more parks.

lol and Star Tours an TSM are set up to be updated with the flip of a switch!

 

[ASteelersMidget]

lol and Star Tours an TSM are set up to be updated with the flip of a switch!

Oh Hey Figment, Nice to see you again!

 

[johnGorski]

Can we close this thread because with all the money being spent on FLE and AVL does anyone really think this will happen?

Agreed! Not to mention a DHS expansion and a upgrade to future world/new country in Epcot.

 

[Figment632]

I just will never understand the need for this when the other parks need work and have room for expansion.

MK: two plots in AL one huge. Huge are behind TL, huge area behind FLE, and huge area in FRTL.

EC: room for 7 new countries, WOL, room behind WOL.

DHS: huge plot behind BLT, nice size plot behind RnRC.

DAK: more room for expansion than anything.

Do this then we will talk 5th gate.

 

[OldsDr]

I just will never understand the need for this when the other parks need work and have room for expansion.

MK: two plots in AL one huge. Huge are behind TL, huge area behind FLE, and huge area in FRTL.

EC: room for 7 new countries, WOL, room behind WOL.

DHS: huge plot behind BLT, nice size plot behind RnRC.

DAK: more room for expansion than anything.

Do this then we will talk 5th gate.

Unless there is something I don't see I think they could also bring Epcot out into that vast unsused section of parking lot? Maybe it is the times that I go, but off to the left while facing the park is always unused for parking. (not saying they will but think it is another area that is practically unused if they found the need for more park area)

 

[Figment632]

Unless there is something I don't see I think they could also bring Epcot out into that vast unsused section of parking lot? Maybe it is the times that I go, but off to the left while facing the park is always unused for parking. (not saying they will but think it is another area that is practically unused if they found the need for more park area)

Correct I forgot a out that one.

 

[nytimez]

If Epcot undergoes an expansion (not a hotel -- an actual expansion) so vast it eats into the parking lot, I will eat this Web site.

 

[nytimez]

double post

 

[tjkraz]

I just will never understand the need for this when the other parks need work and have room for expansion.

Need? No, not for many reasons. But it's pretty easy to understand the desire for a fifth gate. People crave something new and different even if that money is better spent elsewhere.

Even now, I bet if you polled people on whether they think the $3 billion or so spent on DAK should have instead been put into MK, EP and DHS, an overwhelming majority would favor DAK.

If Epcot undergoes an expansion (not a hotel -- an actual expansion) so vast it eats into the parking lot, I will eat this Web site.

Ha! I'll split it with you.