Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[DDLand]

Think about a billion of that will go to infrastructure including parking garages road improvements etc.

I have to say, I still have this lingering feeling that DHS will still not be a "full day park" after this is all done and finished. I feel like in the same way Animal Kingdom will have the potential or will be one step closer to being a full day day park, they'll need more. DCA's slate remained better than DHS's and DAK's, and I'm concerned those two parks need more. Now the flip side is if they build and find success, then they'll build more. I sure hope they find success! I guess I just need to remember that a park doesn't become Magic Kingdom or Disneyland in one expansion. It takes years of constant consistent attraction add ons (and not very many closings) to create a park like that.

Edit:Come to think of it, I'd say DCA needs several new E Tickets too. Space is really really tight over there, but DCA has around half the attendance as Disneyland. That should change. The Marvel Stuff will help, but it needs more. Disneyland is arguably the best Park in the world, but still DCA should have closer margins.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I was just saying that the entire budget isn't going for new rides and areas in the park some of it will be going to infrastructure I have no problem with that I didn't think I came across that way either.

Which would be fine if I had said "2.8 Billion in rides and attractions" which I did not.

 

[mvk]

$1B in parking garages and road improvements? Do you think they're building a 20 story garage and paving in sterling silver?

The two garages (and other roadwork RCID picked up) at Disney Springs were estimated to cost $85M total (as in both combined, not each).

 

[rteetz]

Which would be fine if I had said "2.8 Billion in rides and attractions" which I did not.

Well you did say 2.8 billion around TSMM. Again I wasn't trying to be rude or anything just making sure people know that the entire 2.8 is not all for rides and attractions.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I have to say, I still have this lingering feeling that DHS will still not be a "full day park" after this is all done and finished. I feel like in the same way Animal Kingdom will have the potential or will be one step closer to being a full day day park, they'll need more. DCA's slate remained better than DHS's and DAK's, and I'm concerned those two parks need more. Now the flip side is if they build and find success, then they'll build more. I sure hope they find success! I guess I just need to remember that a park doesn't become Magic Kingdom or Disneyland in one expansion. It takes years of constant consistent attraction add ons (and not very many closings) to create a park like that.

I can't disagree really. But what for the repeat visitor like most of us on here, would really get you at these parks for an entire day. And define an entire day as well.

We tend to hit one in the am, then one (or the same one) in the pm.

I would rather see a 4 park split like WDW than either UNI/IOA or DL/DCA.

In other words would you prefer EPCOT literally connected in one gate/space to DHS, and AK and MK in one gate/space?

 

[rteetz]

$1B in parking garages and road improvements? Do you think they're building a 20 story garage and paving in sterling silver?

The two garages (and other roadwork RCID picked up) at Disney Springs were estimated to cost $85M.

Some of the areas that are guest areas now are supposed to become backstage areas and such. This park will need a lot of infrastructure work.

 

[rteetz]

I have to say, I still have this lingering feeling that DHS will still not be a "full day park" after this is all done and finished. I feel like in the same way Animal Kingdom will have the potential or will be one step closer to being a full day day park, they'll need more. DCA's slate remained better than DHS's and DAK's, and I'm concerned those two parks need more. Now the flip side is if they build and find success, then they'll build more. I sure hope they find success! I guess I just need to remember that a park doesn't become Magic Kingdom or Disneyland in one expansion. It takes years of constant consistent attraction add ons (and not very many closings) to create a park like that.

Edit:Come to think of it, I'd say DCA needs several new E Tickets too. Space is really really tight over there, but DCA has around half the attendance as Disneyland. That should change. The Marvel Stuff will help, but it needs more. Disneyland is arguably the best Park in the world, but still DCA should have closer margins.

I agree but doing anything at this point is a step in the right direction.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Well you did say 2.8 billion around TSMM. Again I wasn't trying to be rude or anything just making sure people know that the entire 2.8 is not all for rides and attractions.

It will be around TSM, all $2.8 Billion of it, just like the MK hub is around NFL, or the castle.

 

[rteetz]

It will be around TSM, all $2.8 Billion of it, just like the MK hub is around NFL, or the castle.

That's just confusing tho. All 2.8 billion won't be around TSMM. Star Wars isn't going to be next to TSMM, the parking garages either. The hub is near or around the castle but not FL.

 

[DDLand]

I can't disagree really. But what for the repeat visitor like most of us on here, would really get you at these parks for an entire day. And define an entire day as well.

We tend to hit one in the am, then one (or the same one) in the pm.

I would rather see a 4 park split like WDW than either UNI/IOA or DL/DCA.

In other words would you prefer EPCOT literally connected in one gate/space to DHS, and AK and MK in one gate/space?

The 4 Parks system that we've got now works really well at the same time that it's plane awful. I love it, and I hate it. 4 Parks means there's several times the area to be themed and be immersed in. We get all sorts of new environments and areas, but at the same time the sheer density of Disneyland for example is awesome. Because they can't build sprawling Resorts, they build tightly packed in fewer parks. You can experience more per day and see everything in fewer days. Flip side is if we had a two park system at WDW no way would DAK exist. It's not dense enough. The walkways and paths that are its greatest friend are also it's greatest enemy. I can't choose which one I favor. Tough call. Lol

 

[Kimosabe]

I have to say, I still have this lingering feeling that DHS will still not be a "full day park" after this is all done and finished. I feel like in the same way Animal Kingdom will have the potential or will be one step closer to being a full day day park, they'll need more...

I suppose it's all in the eye of the beholder and how someone enjoys spending their time. If somebody wants enough E- and D-ticket rides to fill a day, then any individual park at Disney World is always going to disappoint that person, with the possible exception of Magic Kingdom. But our family has no problem spending a full day at DAK as it currently exists, and although my wife hates DHS, my kids and I could also spend a full day there as it existed a month ago (although now that they've shut down the animation area, they're pushing their luck). For us, once the new stuff is up and running at either of these parks, we will be no problem spending all day at either place. But I can understand that if somebody doesn't enjoy shows (or animals, in the case of DAK), then it will always be a hard sale.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

The 4 Parks system that we've got now works really well at the same time that it's plane awful. I love it, and I hate it. 4 Parks means there's several times the area to be themed and be immersed in. We get all sorts of new environments and areas, but at the same time the sheer density of Disneyland for example is awesome. Because they can't build sprawling Resorts, they build tightly packed in fewer parks. You can experience more per day and see everything in fewer days. Flip side is if we had a two park system at WDW no way would DAK exist. It's not dense enough. The walkways and paths that are its greatest friend are also it's greatest enemy. I can't choose which one I favor. Tough call. Lol

Oh don't worry-picking 2 compact resorts would mean nothing negative to me.

But have done/still do US/IOA and DL/DCA, they are great days indeed, just not as great as WDW stays for us.

We just have grown out of the tight squeeze ride after similar ride scenario. Heck we used to like the midway at state fair. Much prefer a sprawling 4 park choice. But then again-give us EPCOT/WS 9 out of 10 nights and were golden.

Oddly looking forward to the D Springs stroll to dinner at some of those places. Be interesting to see what it turns out like.

 

[DDLand]

I suppose it's all in the eye of the beholder and how someone enjoys spending their time. If somebody wants enough E- and D-ticket rides to fill a day, then any individual park at Disney World is always going to disappoint that person, with the possible exception of Magic Kingdom. But our family has no problem spending a full day at DAK as it currently exists, and although my wife hates DHS, my kids and I could also spend a full day there as it existed a month ago (although now that they've shut down the animation area, they're pushing their luck). For us, once the new stuff is up and running at either of these parks, we will be no problem spending all day at either place. But I can understand that if somebody doesn't enjoy shows (or animals, in the case of DAK), then it will always be a hard sale.

That's why I put "full day park," in quotes. I've heard all sorts of people relate exactly what you're saying, and I myself have found that to be true. Flip side is even the biggest supporters of DAK and DHS (and to an extent, Epcot) say more needs to be built. It's under built and it's as simple as that. From a capacity and draw stand point both of the parks need love, and they're getting it. I just wouldn't say that after both these expansions more isn't needed.

Though I would add you have to do everything in park to really draw out the day. If you don't like Everest for example (I love the amazing theming, but it's so jerky) you're left with a big hole in your day. There needs to be multiple draws and options with enough options to make each day different.


The horribly unrelated and placed Avatar Land will help, but it needs more. Just like DHS needs more than SW and Pixar.

 

[yitbos96bb]

With all the expansions Universal is doing to their parks right now, Disney has done barely anything to the parks. Disney's construction projects take longer than most government projects! And that's saying something, not only does it take Disney a decade to build a land, they are also not building enough new, interesting, well thought attractions. Adding another screen to soarin' isn't a new attraction, it's for capacity and should of been there in the first place! I know Disney is about to announce a rebranding mega project of DHS, but Universal is going to react to that in a very big way, that's a given, if Disney does not have this done by 2019, they're attendance will be going over to Universal, there will be a tipping point when people ask themselves, "why should I spend a lot more money at Disney, when I can save money and going to a park that is actually investing enough into it!" Mr. Iger, ten years ago when admission was half the cost you were putting more rides into the parks, and know that admission is $100 you're putting less attractions in the parks, that makes zero sense, all I'm saying is that Disney better get there act back together, and don't have construction at snail pace, that's not good.

Um no. Not in the least.

There is a story that back in the day the makers of Ragu hired a researcher to make the perfect pasta sauce. The researcher came back and said there is no perfect sauce.... A 1/3 liked the traditional sauce, a 1/3 liked chunky and 1/3 liked spicy.

Ragu fired him. Years later, another company came to the guy and started asking about research. They wanted to get into the sauce business. He told them, make a chunky sauce and you'll capture a 1/3 of the market. They were shocked it was that simple. The company did, creating Prego.

These kind of things need to stop being looked at as an either/or proposition. It is looked at in terms of the profit vs operating costs to determine success. Look at Apple vs Android. android is the market leader but apple makes more money. You don't need to lead the market.

But outside of that... All four Disney parks outsell Universal in tickets. Even if all four get passed, that doesn't mean trouble for Disney. Trouble for Disney comes if ticket sales and other income don't meet financial goals.

 

[rteetz]

I suppose it's all in the eye of the beholder and how someone enjoys spending their time. If somebody wants enough E- and D-ticket rides to fill a day, then any individual park at Disney World is always going to disappoint that person, with the possible exception of Magic Kingdom. But our family has no problem spending a full day at DAK as it currently exists, and although my wife hates DHS, my kids and I could also spend a full day there as it existed a month ago (although now that they've shut down the animation area, they're pushing their luck). For us, once the new stuff is up and running at either of these parks, we will be no problem spending all day at either place. But I can understand that if somebody doesn't enjoy shows (or animals, in the case of DAK), then it will always be a hard sale.

DHS actually has a good amount of D and E tickets it's the lower tickets that they lack in. Why do you think TSMM is so popular? Because the majority of the family can ride it. ToT and RnRc not everybody can ride. I also really like AK and can spend a full day there. Star Wars will most likely have an e ticket ride. Pixar will likely be majority of family friendly rides.

 

[rteetz]

The horribly unrelated and placed Avatar Land will help, but it needs more. Just like DHS needs more than SW and Pixar.

While unrelated I don't think it's horribly placed. I'd much rather have avatar in AK because of its conservation message than somewhere else in WDW.

 

[DDLand]

While unrelated I don't think it's horribly placed. I'd much rather have avatar in AK because of its conservation message than somewhere else in WDW.

I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I've had 4 years to sit on the idea of Avatar and I've decided that it's as related to DAK as it is to Fantasyland. It's diametrically opposed to everything DAK stands for.

 

[nkosiek]

DHS actually has a good amount of D and E tickets it's the lower tickets that they lack in. Why do you think TSMM is so popular? Because the majority of the family can ride it. ToT and RnRc not everybody can ride. I also really like AK and can spend a full day there. Star Wars will most likely have an e ticket ride. Pixar will likely be majority of family friendly rides.

There are a total of 5 rides in the park, period. I don't know that I'd call that a "good amount" of anything. Sure in my eyes, 4 of them are quality (I'll never get the love for TGMR) but I'd say that they lack rides PERIOD, heck according to Disney's own website, there are only 9 "Attractions" in the park. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/attractions/hollywood-studios/

 

[rteetz]

I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I've had 4 years to sit on the idea of Avatar and I've decided that it's as related to DAK as it is to Fantasyland. It's diametrically opposed to everything DAK stands for.

Really? The movie is about conservation and not destroying an animal or for the movies matter the Navi home. AK is all about animals and conservation hence why the Disney conservation fund is heavy there.

 

[rteetz]

There are a total of 5 rides in the park, period. I don't know that I'd call that a "good amount" of anything. Sure in my eyes, 4 of them are quality (I'll never get the love for TGMR) but I'd say that they lack rides PERIOD, heck according to Disney's own website, there are only 9 "Attractions" in the park. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/attractions/hollywood-studios/

RnRc E ticket. ToT e ticket. TSMM some say D some say E. Star tours I'd call it an E. GMR is a D. The great movie ride is a huge part of the original vision for that park. It represents a lot of the classic and well known movies like Indiana jones, wizard of oz, Casablanca, alien, etc. the great movie ride fits perfectly with the Chinese theater icon. Yes the park lack rides but it lack kid friendly rides. So if we get an e with Star Wars and maybe a possible d ticket that's four e tickets, three d tickets, and then whatever we get with Pixar that will definitely help that park out. Thinking of MK you have what five e tickets(BTMRR, Splash, SM, HM, POTC) I guess you could debate one or two more for MK but five for sure. Mine train isn't one could've been but isn't it's a solid D. Epcot has (soarin, TT) two E's? AK (dinosaur, EE, Kali, Safari) four? So no WDW really has a plethora of E tickets and it should really, you need a good balance of people eating rides, and rides that aren't people friendly.