Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Arrogance in a company or it's fans is not only unattractive, it -- as history tells us -- is a critical weakness.
But the winds of change arrived, in the form of a movement from analog to digital mobile phone networks. The latter could handle significantly more traffic than the analog systems Motorola was using.
As network operators began rapidly making the migration to digital, Motorola -- which had become arrogant and complacent -- wasn't prepared to move quickly into digital handsets.
Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Intent to return rates are up, attendance is up, hotel occupancy is up, and guest spending is up.

Yeah, MyMagic+ is totally on the same level...

I can't argue with that. I was pointing out that MM+ isn't leading to Disney's demise like the other poster was implying.

HaHa, sorry-I can see where you may have thought that.

I meant MM+ is a great technology advancement (not standing pat) way ahead of the competition.

The above almost makes a critical case FOR MM+ IMO.

In other words, WDW has learned from other companies experiences, although a bit more IT would help the process, but the system is in place.

 

[mvk]

I'm not saying that they're NOT throwing billions into WDW, but I would like to point out that this is still just a rumor. And the rumor has been getting tossed around for weeks without any actually solid basis other than anonymous internet people saying, "anonymous insiders are saying that ..."

It's possible that the rumor will turn out to be untrue. Not because the people spreading the rumors are mistaken or malicious, but because the longer that we wait for an official announcement, the greater the chance that circumstances will change. The world of money and finance is very, very volatile right now, and I mean volatile in a very negative way.

Even if they scale back the rumored amount halfway, it will be billions still with DHS, Avatar+Rivers of Light, & Frozen/Norway.

I don't believe for a second that they've shuttered half (or more) of that park and won't follow through.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Even if they scale back the rumored amount halfway, it will be billions still with DHS, Avatar+Rivers of Light, & Frozen/Norway.

I don't believe for a second that they've shuttered half (or more) of that park and won't follow through.

Plus Soarin 2, TSM 2, DHS Theatre, MK Hub, MK diner, and all of Disney Springs. I tend to include NFL in the conversation as well actually.

I mean I've done everything at UNI/IOA multiple times, so why go back just for Kong? Because the place is awesome all encompassed-same with WDW but a grander scale and different vibe, esp in the evenings.

 

[DDLand]

HaHa, sorry-I can see where you may have thought that.

I meant MM+ is a great technology advancement (not standing pat) way ahead of the competition.

The above almost makes a critical case FOR MM+ IMO.

In other words, WDW has learned from other companies experiences, although a bit more IT would help the process, but the system is in place.

Lol I see exactly where I went wrong, pardon me.

 

[mvk]

Plus Soarin 2, TSM 2, DHS Theatre, MK Hub,, MK diner, and all of Disney Springs. I tend to include NFL in the conversation as well actually.

I think the Hub & Disney Springs is more infrastructure. Need to spread out the masses. I included Disney Springs along with MM+ in my previous post as infrastructure that will help them manage the crowds a bit better. The Hub and the Main Street Bypass would fall into this too.

Have to build the infrastructure first, before you can handle larger crowds.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I think the Hub & Disney Springs is more infrastructure. Need to spread out the masses. I included Disney Springs along with MM+ in my previous post as infrastructure that will help them manage the crowds a bit better. The Hub and the Main Street Bypass would fall into this too.

Have to build the infrastructure first, before you can handle larger crowds.

Agreed, but as for D Springs-we are finally after probably a decade, planning to head there numerous times (already did the B House-fabulous) as more establishments come online-not because we can walk around better. Although it does look like it will be beautiful.

And yea I forgot MM+, amazing tech opportunities.

The hub-infrastructure for sure, but still park investments and a fabulous change. Could be leading to other improvements but I don't know for sure. I do know it's better sound and projection can lead to better shows.

 

[MystikaFaith]

Even if Disney absolutely nothing and remained unchanged for years and years and years and years, there would still be a large population of people who would still flock from all over the world to go there. It doesn't matter how many bells and whistles universal gets, there will always be people faithful to the mouse! While Universal does have the cool factor, I don't feel like it generates near as much loyalty and obsession as Disney World.

 

[rteetz]

Even if they scale back the rumored amount halfway, it will be billions still with DHS, Avatar+Rivers of Light, & Frozen/Norway.

I don't believe for a second that they've shuttered half (or more) of that park and won't follow through.

2.8 billion for DHS including infrastructure
600-700 million for AK
75-100 million for Frozen

 

[rteetz]

Plus Soarin 2, TSM 2, DHS Theatre, MK Hub, MK diner, and all of Disney Springs. I tend to include NFL in the conversation as well actually.

I mean I've done everything at UNI/IOA multiple times, so why go back just for Kong? Because the place is awesome all encompassed-same with WDW but a grander scale and different vibe, esp in the evenings.

Soarin and TSMM won't add up to much in terms of cost. Hub was a necessity they needed to do that because of increased crowds and crowd control. I don't know any numbers for Disney springs as it's very spread out. Third parties cover some costs, the parking garages are paid for by RCID, etc.

As for UNI they also have a hotel opening in July 2016 and a new water park. Twister is rumored to close soon, fear factor has been rumored to close, toon lagoon is rumored for Nintendo.

 

[DDLand]

2.8 billion for DHS including infrastructure
600-700 million for AK
75-100 million for Frozen

350ish Million for MK, and 300 Million+ for Epcot.

 

[rteetz]

Agreed, but as for D Springs-we are finally after probably a decade, planning to head there numerous times (already did the B House-fabulous) as more establishments come online-not because we can walk around better. Although it does look like it will be beautiful.

And yea I forgot MM+, amazing tech opportunities.

The hub-infrastructure for sure, but still park investments and a fabulous change. Could be leading to other improvements but I don't know for sure. I do know it's better sound and projection can lead to better shows.

Wishes is 10+ years old seeing what they can do with shows like Disneyland forever and spreading out the crowds throughout the park. MK really should get a show like that because of the increased crowds.

 

[rteetz]

350ish Million for MK, and 300 Million+ for Epcot.

Not to mention the rumored frontierland expansion that is not supposed to be included in that 350 million.

 

[mort1331]

Soarin and TSMM won't add up to much in terms of cost. Hub was a necessity they needed to do that because of increased crowds and crowd control. I don't know any numbers for Disney springs as it's very spread out. Third parties cover some costs, the parking garages are paid for by RCID, etc.

As for UNI they also have a hotel opening in July 2016 and a new water park. Twister is rumored to close soon, fear factor has been rumored to close, toon lagoon is rumored for Nintendo.

They didn't need to do it but they did so as not to be left behind. They did not need to add to Soaring or TSMM, but they want to decrease wait times. These "small" changes do have big impacts that cant always be seen.
Everyone complains about how slow the changes come and how slow building is. It takes time and they want to minimize the impact. I know that they could just close the doors to a section, let all the heavy machinery go guns a blazing and have it done in half the time. But even when we were there this past March and half of AK was boarded up, except for some tight squeezes in places my family did not even notice.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

They didn't need to do it but they did so as not to be left behind. They did not need to add to Soaring or TSMM, but they want to decrease wait times. These "small" changes do have big impacts that cant always be seen.
Everyone complains about how slow the changes come and how slow building is. It takes time and they want to minimize the impact. I know that they could just close the doors to a section, let all the heavy machinery go guns a blazing and have it done in half the time. But even when we were there this past March and half of AK was boarded up, except for some tight squeezes in places my family did not even notice.

You could easily argue that they did need to do it. During high capacity times many people have reported how crowded the hub and Main Street are. I'm sure people were also complaining to Customer Relations. It was probably only a matter of time before someone got seriously injured.

And Soarin and TSMM are both in parks that only have 2 headliners right now. So to help with crowds, you either expand capacity at your current rides or build new headliners. Disney chose the easier, cheaper route.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

You could easily argue that they did need to do it. During high capacity times many people have reported how crowded the hun and Main Street are. I'mm sure people were also complaing to Customer Relations. It was proobaly only a matter of time before someone got seriously injured.

And Soarin and TSMM are both in parks that only have 2 headliners right now. So to help with crowds, you either expand capacity at your current rides or build new headliners. Disney chose the easier, cheaper route.

Plus another $2.8 Billion spread around TSM2 of course.

 

[DDLand]

I'm not saying that they're NOT throwing billions into WDW, but I would like to point out that this is still just a rumor. And the rumor has been getting tossed around for weeks without any actually solid basis other than anonymous internet people saying, "anonymous insiders are saying that ..."

It's possible that the rumor will turn out to be untrue. Not because the people spreading the rumors are mistaken or malicious, but because the longer that we wait for an official announcement, the greater the chance that circumstances will change. The world of money and finance is very, very volatile right now, and I mean volatile in a very negative way.

I agree with your general premise, but I don't understand the need for pessimism. These guys who are leaking this stuff are some of the best around. They were right about The Magic of Walt Disney Animation Closing, about Wilderness Lodge adding DVC, Martin for example was right about upgrades to Illuminations lasers that recently took place. They're in the know. Spirit also gave a full write up of the entire Shanghai Disneyland ride lineup a year ago.

There's a definite chance that things could fall through, (though now that the budget is ago, it's far harder) but it's more likely that it won't. Universal has been building to great success recently, why can't Disney? I always had this feeling that the naysayers who said Disney would never build would be right over and over again, until suddenly they're not. Frankly you're on the wrong side of history here, DHS is looking like it's about to be radically changed, and WDW is going to be a better place a few years down the line.

Why don't you enjoy it? You're obviously a Disney fan, why don't you get excited and start thinking about the possibilities?

If this is all goes down in a pathetic way, than who loses? Sure we may be a bit disappointed, but there's always something to be excited about.

 

[rteetz]

They didn't need to do it but they did so as not to be left behind. They did not need to add to Soaring or TSMM, but they want to decrease wait times. These "small" changes do have big impacts that cant always be seen.
Everyone complains about how slow the changes come and how slow building is. It takes time and they want to minimize the impact. I know that they could just close the doors to a section, let all the heavy machinery go guns a blazing and have it done in half the time. But even when we were there this past March and half of AK was boarded up, except for some tight squeezes in places my family did not even notice.

I believe they did need to do it so people could move in the hub area. During fireworks and parades the area is a nightmare for crowd control.

 

[rteetz]

Plus another $2.8 Billion spread around TSM2 of course.

Think about a billion of that will go to infrastructure including parking garages road improvements etc.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Think about a billion of that will go to infrastructure including parking garages road improvements etc.

OK, sorry-they took the cheap easy way out and added TSM 2, then another $1.8 Billion in attractions, and another $1 Billion "spread around TSM2" in infrastructure.

 

[rteetz]

OK, sorry-they took the cheap easy way out and added TSM 2, then another $1.8 Billion in attractions, and another $1 Billion in infrastructure.

I was just saying that the entire budget isn't going for new rides and areas in the park some of it will be going to infrastructure I have no problem with that I didn't think I came across that way either.