IS Disney still broken?

[DVC-Landbaron]

Glad to see you're alright, my Pirate!!

It's too bad that the storm didn't knock some sense into you though. You're still as wrong as ever!!!!

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Certainly there were not demographic studies back then as we have today and I have refrained from introducing the concept into this discussion because it is moot, but I do believe Walt did look at who would generally be interested in his work.

Why? What makes you say that?

I can't think of any clear cut evidence that suggests Walt gave even a twinkling thought to demographics.

Regardless of whether or not they had kids, he was building a park for ADULTS. Someplace that an ADULT would be comfortable going - whether or not they had a child. And if they had a child, then the adult and child could have fun together.

That was the genius behind Disneyland. It wasn't built with a demographic in mind. It was built for EVERYBODY. For the old, for the young, for the tweeners, for families, for the singles, for the couples....for EVERYBODY!!!!

If he built it with kids in mind, it would be no better than the mentality that pervades Disney management today about capturing a market segment. And that's not what Walt did.

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"Regardless of whether or not they had kids, he was building a park for ADULTS. "***

Then why no alcohol ? And Walt was no tea toadler (sp).

Honestly, I have no idea who Walt built DL for. But I think he had all intention of making it a "for profit" endevour. I think he was smart enough to realize that there had to be enough of something for everyone of all age groups in order for DL to be a financial success.

Today, I think management is concentrating more on adults and possibly those 'tweener aged kids, but I don't think the younger kids are being ignored either. I haven't heard any family members or friends with young children complain that there isn't enough for them to do with their kids when they visit WDW. What I do hear is that they can't wait to go back in a couple years so the kids can do other things.And then again in a couple more yrs,etc,etc....

And for the record Baron, I'm still a middle of the road member of an ever growing group in Car 2. I am not blinded by pixie dust or bitterness.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Then why no alcohol ? And Walt was no tea toadler (sp).

You’ve got to be kidding!!! You cite this as indicative of it being a NON-adult place! I know you may believe it is only tongue-in-cheek, but just by putting it out there; it demeans the conversation and really muddies the waters. It SEEMS like a quip that is self-evident. It has the feel of an “Ah-ha!! I gottacha on that one!!” And YOU know it isn’t true at all!! And it’s not worthy of you.

Of course if you really want to discuss this, I will gladly do so. But… Do we really want to waste our time with such a silly (as well as indefensible) side issue?

Honestly, I have no idea who Walt built DL for. But I think he had all intention of making it a "for profit" endevour.

Again. You say that as though we of “The Element” would disagree, or even worse have disagreed with this position in the past!! HOW RIDICULOUS!!! Of course it was ‘for-profit’. Who in the heck would ever disagree!!??

I think he was smart enough to realize that there had to be enough of something for everyone of all age groups in order for DL to be a financial success.

Pretty self evident, I’d say!!

Today, I think management is concentrating more on adults and possibly those 'tweener aged kids

And you don’t find that troubling?

And for the record Baron, I'm still a middle of the road member of an ever growing group in Car 2. I am not blinded by pixie dust or bitterness.

You are very good at handing out a degrading and disparaging comment without being too overt about it! So, I will make it overt. I AM NOT “BLINDED” BY BITTERNESS!!! I am a steeped in reality. And very well versed and appreciative of Walt’s Disney. I also have no love whatsoever for the new Disney®. I also do not believe for a nanosecond that things will ever improve without a drastic change in top level personnel. THAT is the difference between Car#2 and Car#3. I’ll thank you, therefore, to keep the “BLINDED” comments to yourself*.










* Unless you are talking about the Pirate, of course, who is obviously BLINDED by Pixie Dust!!!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

First... no Ah-Ha's intended.

Dan feels very strongely that DL was built for "ADULTS". If it were for ADULTS, why wouldn't he include at least one location in the park where an adult could enjoy a cold one ? IMO, he didn't want alcohol to discourage anyone from bringing their kids.

Second..... I don't recall anyone in the Element ever saying Walt wasn't out to make a buck and I my post wasn't meant to imply the Element felt otherwise. My point was that Walt - wanting to make a profit - figured out the best way to do so was to build a park that the ENTIRE family wanted to go to, not just the ADULTS.

Third.... I don't find it troubling that Disney is concentrating more on adults and 'tweeners because that's the market the competion is trying to take from them. Disney's future depends on the youngsters growing up and wanting to return as adults, with or without kids. If they lose just one generation they are doomed.

Fourth..... You don't believe some members of the Element aren't bitter ? When a judge threw the Pooh case out , what was the reaction but some members on your favorite Board ? Wasn't the judges ruling good news for Disney fans ? But regardless of what I read into the various posts, I will keep my "blind' comments to myself. My apologies.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

First things first…

But regardless of what I read into the various posts, I will keep my "blind' comments to myself. My apologies.

My apologies!! My own tongue-in-cheek evidently did a fly-by!! Did you not see my foot note? I was trying to do one of those “do as I say, not as I do” things, while still trying to make my point about NOT being blinded!! Sorry I missed the mark!

Now…

Dan feels very strongly that DL was built for "ADULTS".

I may be mistaken but I don’t think he means – EXCLUSIVELY. I think he means – INCLUSIVELY. And there’s a world of difference between the two!!

If they lose just one generation they are doomed.

In my humble opinion, they’ve already lost them!!! They have NOT produced the UNDYING – LOYAL – guest!! Instead they have produced the minimally interested costumer that shops for his theme park entertainment from various sources. Sadly, Disney has stooped to this level. Instead of being – THE ONE AND ONLY – they have become – just another entertainment commodity.

You don't believe some members of the Element aren't bitter ?

Perhaps… As much as I try, I cannot be responsible for all the members. Some are quick to temper () and some don’t get it right away. We are – diverse.

When a judge threw the Pooh case out , what was the reaction but some members on your favorite Board ? Wasn't the judges ruling good news for Disney fans ?

I know you probably won’t believe it, but I didn’t read one word of that thread. It just simply doesn’t interest me. However, I’ll go back and look it up, even though I have no doubt you are right!!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

I missed your little foot note. I'm used to your BOLD,LARGE print...... you threw me a curve with the IASW print size.

Look on page 7.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I did a quick look. And didn't see it right off the bat. And to be honest I don't have the energy or the inclination on this pleasent Sunday evening to do anymore. So...

Could you post a link? Or if you don't want to give that site any action (and I understand your point of view even if I disagree with it) then send it to me in a PM.

Thanks!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

I have no problem giving that board some action...so to speak. Here's the link : http://www.jjewell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Disney;action=display;num=1080587049

Actually, digging it up was the first time I read the entire thread.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Thank you!!

Actually, digging it up was the first time I read the entire thread.

I think that you may regret not reading it before you cited it!! But we'll see...

Now, you really think that the people who posted there were “blinded” with their “bitterness”?

Let’s see…

When a judge threw the Pooh case out , what was the reaction but some members on your favorite Board ?

There were seven posts to that thread.

1- There was ONE (count it up – ONLY ONE) negative comment. The original poster.

2- There were two questions with NO opinion one way or the other.

3- There was one post that said Disney AND the Schlesingers were JERKS!

4- One that said that the Schlesingers “weren't exactly good anyway” and that he was glad Pooh would stick around.

5- And two rather inane quips about Johnnie Cochran!!


And from THIS all you glean was that “The Element” is Blinded by their Bitterness!!

WOW!! To me at least - That is certainly a stretch!!!!

Wasn't the judges ruling good news for Disney fans ?

After reading it all for the first time, my “Official” LandBaron response is:
Not necessarily!!


And now you know why I avoid these threads!!! Even from that WONDERFUL site!!!

 

[cristen]

I'm bitter.



But not blinded to the wonderful things Walt has given us.

 

[KNWVIKING]

The thread had seven posts by six members, one of which was Scoop. So on that particular thread, only 1-outa-5 is bitter.

Back to sipping my wine and reading Beatles lyrics.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Ok, only 20% of the Element members are bitter. The thread had seven posts by six members, one of which was Scoop. So on that particular thread, only 1-outa-5 is bitter.

WHOA!!! The site has 68 members!!! ALL BUT SIX DECIDED NOT TO POST!!! To me that is much more telling!!!

So what is the percent of that!! In essence LESS THAN 1% (or 0.68%) of The Element is what you might consider – Bitter.

Hmmmmm. Now that I think about it, he may not be bitter at all. He may be RIGHT!!!!!

Back to sipping my wine and reading Beatles lyrics.

Lay off the wine, put away the lyrics, put on a Beatles CD and pick up a logic book! YOU NEED IT!!!!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

And only about 10 that actually post. And I'd hardly classify the newest member as a member of the Element.

And since Cristen is among the 10, that means without even doing anymore homework, I'm still at 20%.

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
I may be mistaken but I don’t think he means – EXCLUSIVELY. I think he means – INCLUSIVELY. And there’s a world of difference between the two!!

That is EXACTLY what Dan means. Dan said as much.

originally posted by SnackyStacky
That was the genius behind Disneyland. It wasn't built with a demographic in mind. It was built for EVERYBODY. For the old, for the young, for the tweeners, for families, for the singles, for the couples....for EVERYBODY!!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

SInce your last post made no sense whatsoever, I'll let it go. Suffice to say that not all of The Element is in lock-step no matter what you think you might have divined from a seven post thread!

That's just silly. I don't mind a broad brush once in awhile, but yours is a bit too wide for even my tastes!!!

In the mean time why not try to wriggle out of what SnackyStacky says. I betting you can't, but you will say that you did!!

 

[KNWVIKING]

Well if you cannot figure out my last post,then maybe it's you that needs the book on logic. It was quite simple actually. There may be 68 registered members, but you can decide for yourself why only a handfull - I estimated 10 - are actually active members. So rather then your 1 - in -68 or 0.68%, IMO my 2- in-10 or 20% is probably more acurate. But regardless... I'm done with the OT subject.

As for Dan's comments, he put this out there : " Regardless of whether or not they had kids, he was building a park for ADULTS. Someplace that an ADULT would be comfortable going - whether or not they had a child. And if they had a child, then the adult and child could have fun together."

Thruout this meandering thread a mini debate about who Walt built DL for developed. While Dan has said ALL, he also made the above comment. My interpretation of his posts is that he believes Walt was thinking more about ADULTS then kids when he designed. Walt was building a park that he himself, as an ADULT, would want to go to as well as his kids.

My counter to his theory is that if Walt were thinking more about adults then kids, then he would have had an adult watering hole or maybe an adults only restaurant. Someplace where adults could get away from the kids.

So Dan let's clear it up once and for all, I don't want to misinterprete the meaning of your posts. Do you think Walt built DL with his focus on adults,children or both groups equally ?

 

[JonJehrio]

Well, I have just stumbled upon this subject, and as a 34 year old who has Disney running through my veins, I will offer my two cents to this discussion. I grew up in Niagara Falls and over the last 30 years have made about 15 trips to Disney World. My mom read me Disney stories before I went to bed when I was young, and took us to the Disney movies. I do not understand why classics like Peter Pan, Dumbo, Bambi, Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, etc, etc, can not be produced today? I do understand that the world today is totally different now than it was 40 years ago. Families ate together, played games together, went on vacations together, recreated together, and watched movies together. 40 years ago there were no computers, video games, VCR's, CD's, Cell Phones, and so on, attitudes were different. What entertained people 40 years ago would not necessarily entertain people now. I feel people now are so de-sensatized. We have seen so many Terminator and Alien movies, we've seen dinasaurs come to life on the movie screen, and we enjoy the latest high tech video games, technology, sports arenas, and stadiums, and entertainment. We need everything fast now, we have microwaves, speed limits need to be increased, high speed computers and Internet, and people in the world today, likewise need to be entertained faster. People need to be wowed right away.
So what am I getting at? The world is changing and companies need to keep up. Oddly, retro is really becoming popular these days, but that is beside the point. Disney is a wonderful company, but has shifted their focus. I work for a company that is as well known as Disney (Hershey), and I see every day the shift in thinking. Companies nowadays are being run by accountants that are thinking "How can we make more money" first, and "How can we make the guest happy" second. I will agree that though Disney still has it's flaws, (adventureland opening an hour later, elimination of popular rides like 20K, the lack of regular additions to the Parks, the elimination of Disney background music on the Disney Cruise Ships, seeing the "Golden Arches" in AK, and so on), it still does a better job taking care of it's guests, than anyone else. If you want to test this theory, spend a few days at WDW staying in a nice resort like BC or WL, than go spend a few days at Universal Studios. Yeah US has some great attractions, but the employees do not come close to taking care of it's guests like the CM's at Disney do. And that's why I keep going back.
I have worked in customer service for 18 years and the first lesson I learned was treat you customers like they are your family. Would the CM's at WDW have to do anything special if Eisner's family decided to visit the parks some day? Would CM's have to scurry around and "clean the place up"? If so, I am afraid they have lost their focus.

 

[cristen]

Viking, You can't count me, I'm weird.

But yet, I wonder why more people aren't bitter. I am because I feel that the current management has no respect for what Disney once stood for. Does not care about what the name Disney means anymore. It's obvious with the decisions they make that water down the name.


Correct me if I am worng, (and that I am a often) but I don't feel that Walt was thinking about any of that. Weren't the earliest of thoughts and intentions about DL actually a park next to the studios where the employees could take their families? He just had so many great ideas he felt that the area was too small to hold them in, he had to get more land, and while they were at it, let as many people enjoy the dream.

 

[DisDuck]

HI.. DVC & Pirate.. long time no post. Seems just like 'yesterday'. This topic never dies. Bringing my daughter back to University of Tampa next week (glad the school is still there) and just have time to visit MK with maybe a night trip to PI & DOD. In May when picking her up went to Epcot & MGM other than the hours issue still found them both to be clean as a whistle and friendly as usual. Saw no 'cracks'. Would have liked Tapestry to still be parading on but Fantasmic was great as ever.

Last I heard, many moons ago, Pixar & Disney were a no-go. What happened? Who blinked or is going to blink?

Always a car 1 or 2 person, yours the dapper Duck.