Is Disney declining or are we? (Food for thought)

[Yinn]

So I am curious.... Has Disney ACTUALLY gotten dirtier, or have we just become more aware because of technology. Note this is rhetorical. I do not think this is something we can ever 100% answer. Even if someone says in their experience, that is still just one person's experience. Unless we have a true statistical study of thousands, and even then you are relying on the "green grass of memories past". I question anyone who says in their experience how much they really noticed and would remember an overflowing trash can when then were 10 years old.

This is just one person's experience. Although my experience started not too long after WDW opened and I return almost yearly.

I don't remember cleanliness being an issue at Disney.

Does that mean there has never been an overflowing waste basket? No.
Does that mean there's never been spilled popcorn? No.
Does that mean an ice cream was never dropped? No.

All of those things happen and any one of us can run into a situation at any point in time. Heck, I'm positive I caused those a bunch of times. Where do I go for the nearest napkins? By the time I get back a lot of times it's cleaned up anyway.

But to your point, in the past if that mess was cleaned up within let's 5 min, heck 15 min. How many people would see it? How many people would report it? Now let's say it's 5 min. How many people could take a picture of it? Even if it's 5 people, it's out there. Those 5 pictures add to the 5 from a month ago to make 10 instances, etc etc.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

It is declining. Had our worst trip ever last week. We have been members for 15 yrs., traveling to DVC for 16. Never have we had so many issues, saw cut backs, and an overall lack luster park experience. Thank you Chopit “ Chapek”.

 

[BamaGuy44]

I'm still good with the thrill rides and roller coasters, but the spinners - i.e. the teacups at MK - are a no-go for me anymore.

Oh I can't even watch the teacups for very long or I'm in big trouble

 

[Leight19]

When I went in January the standards were noticeably worse at resorts then any trip I had been on. Several threads here discussed guests leaving trash in hall and I believe the lack of house keeping was clear root cause for that issue.

I think people underestimate how this impacts guest behavior; studies show that people are much more likely to litter if there is litter on the ground already. If rooms aren’t getting cleaned guests are much more likely to dump trash in hall. If they do that and halls get messy they are much more likely to litter at trash cans and parks. Disney often seems to forget their policies were what they were the last 50 years because they worked and dramatic change with new ceo either means they were wrong for 50 years or are going wrong direction now.

 

[dez1978]

I have not noticed it being more dirty BUT I think allowing cast members to modify their personal appearances (haircuts, facial hair etc... kind of lessens what I always expected in the name of the all American look. Call me old school - I don't care. I just look for new rides, clean tables and clean sheets on the beds. Our room last time was well cleaned and I did not notice trash in the parks at all.

Yes the pandemic has challenged everyone but they can only do so much when there is so much turnover of staff. In the French Pastry, there used to be 5 staff behind the counters besides the cashiers. There were only three now and one of them told me at 8 days they were the longest employed.

Thing is, the all American look has changed. So they still fit the all American thing, it’s just that that isn’t what it was in the 50s. I couldn’t care less if the guy checking my seat restraint on BTM has facial hair and painted nails. IMO it’s more the guests contributing to the worsening appearance of Disney. Leaving trash everywhere, treating CMs horribly, getting in fist fights, being entitled jerks demanding free stuff or refunds when the weather doesn’t meet their expectations. That to me is a MUCH bigger problem than a CM having a mustache or a tattoo.

to answer the original question, both. It is somewhat worse, but the small changes are amplified by social media and instantaneous news

 

[J-Dog]

Thing is, the all American look has changed. So they still fit the all American thing, it’s just that that isn’t what it was in the 50s. I couldn’t care less if the guy checking my seat restraint on BTM has facial hair and painted nails. IMO it’s more the guests contributing to the worsening appearance of Disney. Leaving trash everywhere, treating CMs horribly, getting in fist fights, being entitled jerks demanding free stuff or refunds when the weather doesn’t meet their expectations. That to me is a MUCH bigger problem than a CM having a mustache or a tattoo.

to answer the original question, both. It is somewhat worse, but the small changes are amplified by social media and instantaneous news

Is this just a factor of the change in society as a whole?

Or is it a response to expectations based on Disney's ever-increasing prices?

To me, if I drop $100 for a day trip to my local theme park I'm going to expect a lot less than if I drop $10K at Disney. And, if I don't feel like I'm getting my moneys worth, I might tend to throw a fit about it. I'm not condoning being a slob or fighting, but I can easily see how someone would get to that point.

 

[dez1978]

Is this just a factor of the change in society as a whole?

Or is it a response to expectations based on Disney's ever-increasing prices?

To me, if I drop $100 for a day trip to my local theme park I'm going to expect a lot less than if I drop $10K at Disney. And, if I don't feel like I'm getting my moneys worth, I might tend to throw a fit about it. I'm not condoning being a slob or fighting, but I can easily see how someone would get to that point.

There is a difference between wanting to get your money’s worth and going full Karen on some poor CM for any reason. People treat CMs like crap then wonder why they are understaffed. Same for pretty much every customer service position. They get treated horribly and then every one wants to complain about slow/poor service. Yeah… that’s what happens. Businesses can’t pay employees enough to put up with the customers. Disney included.

 

[Boopuff]

There is a difference between wanting to get your money’s worth and going full Karen on some poor CM for any reason. People treat CMs like crap then wonder why they are understaffed. Same for pretty much every customer service position. They get treated horribly and then every one wants to complain about slow/poor service. Yeah… that’s what happens. Businesses can’t pay employees enough to put up with the customers. Disney included.

when my DD was aCM(photopass) she was physically shoved by a person who wanted the “castle shot” -btw, this was while she was photographing another family!

 

[J-Dog]

There is a difference between wanting to get your money’s worth and going full Karen on some poor CM for any reason. People treat CMs like crap then wonder why they are understaffed. Same for pretty much every customer service position. They get treated horribly and then every one wants to complain about slow/poor service. Yeah… that’s what happens. Businesses can’t pay employees enough to put up with the customers. Disney included.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

But just because you think that people should be nice doesn't make it true.

 

[dez1978]

I'm not disagreeing with you.

But just because you think that people should be nice doesn't make it true.

Oh I know that. And I don't even expect people to be nice all the time. But the way that customers/guests treat staff/CM anywhere, gas stations, fast food, Disney etc, is deplorable. I don't care how unhappy you are with the service you rec'd, that doesn't give you (general you, not you specifically) the right to throw drinks ar people, hit them, curse at them or otherwise degrade them in the manner that has become sadly common place. Not a day goes by where I don't see some story of someone abusing a staff member either physically or verbally. And THAT is IMO why the service industry is struggling right now. No one wants to deal with that, even for $20/hr. Yes, Disney needs to do better, but so do we as guests. Quit leaving your trash on the tables and expecting others to clean up after you. Stop throwing your trash and masks on the ground and leaving it for others. Then complaining bc staff who make $15/hr can't keep up with the mess you leave. Again, general you, not specifically you.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Oh I know that. And I don't even expect people to be nice all the time. But the way that customers/guests treat staff/CM anywhere, gas stations, fast food, Disney etc, is deplorable. I don't care how unhappy you are with the service you rec'd, that doesn't give you (general you, not you specifically) the right to throw drinks ar people, hit them, curse at them or otherwise degrade them in the manner that has become sadly common place. Not a day goes by where I don't see some story of someone abusing a staff member either physically or verbally. And THAT is IMO why the service industry is struggling right now. No one wants to deal with that, even for $20/hr. Yes, Disney needs to do better, but so do we as guests. Quit leaving your trash on the tables and expecting others to clean up after you. Stop throwing your trash and masks on the ground and leaving it for others. Then complaining bc staff who make $15/hr can't keep up with the mess you leave. Again, general you, not specifically you.

But as you point out, this is not necessarily a decline in Disney. Some of it is (and as I mentioned in my original message, I think Disney does bear some brunt of changes they have instituted). But some of this is beyond their control and being felt by the service industry as a whole.

It's being more exposed during the Pandemic, but even before the pandemic we started to see articles and noticed about business's pushing back against rude customers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/restau...t-the-uptick-in-customer-tantrums-11632821400
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07...c-restaurant-rude-customers-frustrated-staff/
https://www.businessinsider.com/lab...mers-also-to-blame-retail-restaurants-2021-10
I know we like to blame Disney and ask them to fix all ill's. But as much as Disney has some magic in it (even if you do not like the upper management, you believe this to come extent if you are a DVC member), it's stretched to it's limits. At some point, even Disney Magic will succumb to an overbearing social issue. And that's not to say we give Disney a free pass or do not hold them responsible.

But to my initial point, I do not think everything is necessarily their fault, either. I think a large part of the "it's not the same Disney as I thought it was" is a combination of access of information, changes in society, the Pandemic, and yes - to some degree Disney policies.

 

[dez1978]

But as you point out, this is not necessarily a decline in Disney. Some of it is (and as I mentioned in my original message, I think Disney does bear some brunt of changes they have instituted). But some of this is beyond their control and being felt by the service industry as a whole.

It's being more exposed during the Pandemic, but even before the pandemic we started to see articles and noticed about business's pushing back against rude customers.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/restau...t-the-uptick-in-customer-tantrums-11632821400
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07...c-restaurant-rude-customers-frustrated-staff/
https://www.businessinsider.com/lab...mers-also-to-blame-retail-restaurants-2021-10
I know we like to blame Disney and ask them to fix all ill's. But as much as Disney has some magic in it (even if you do not like the upper management, you believe this to come extent if you are a DVC member), it's stretched to it's limits. At some point, even Disney Magic will succumb to an overbearing social issue. And that's not to say we give Disney a free pass or do not hold them responsible.

But to my initial point, I do not think everything is necessarily their fault, either. I think a large part of the "it's not the same Disney as I thought it was" is a combination of access of information, changes in society, the Pandemic, and yes - to some degree Disney policies.

I agree. It's not just Disney. I think it's everywhere. Disney does bear some fault in some of the things we feel has declined certainly. But society in general has also declined in some ways. It's improved in others certainly. But def declined in the way it treats customer service workers. I feel like the pandemic has brought out the worst is many areas. Esp on social media. While people were at home with more free time, they just hopped on social media and decided they could just bully others and hide behind the annonymity of the screen and say whatever they wanted without caring how their words affected others. I've left several groups I used to be a part of because of how hateful they'd become. Crafting groups which used to be really helpful for new people, got a ton of new members during the pandemic when ppl were picking up new hobbies. Suddenly no one wants to answer questions with helpful answers as they used to. Every question is now responded to with laughs and "don't you have google" or "use the search feature" or just plain hateful answers. There were certainly some of those people before, but they've come out of the woodwork now.

So basically, it's a little of Disney declining, and a lot of people sucking in general lol

 

[Boopuff]

We all love to look back at our trips (80’s 90’s) with nostalgia, but society has changed, population growing (and growing) more foreign travel (and Dvc owners) all this contributes to more people! And as far as the US is concerned much more “in country “ travel.

 

[ILove2Travel]

This past November we spent 18 days at Fort Wilderness. Our campsite was directly across from one of their sets of animal-proof trash and recycling bins. One of our 18 days it alternated between pouring down rain and torrential downpour of rain. We didn’t leave the RV that day. Having nothing else much to do but watch the rain and surf the Net I spent a lot of time looking out our windows. I can tell you that Disney personnel were constantly driving our loop emptying that trash bin and looking for other needed maintenance. It was impressive. (The coast near Daytona received 7+ inches from that day’s rain storm.)

We also visited Universal’s two parks on that trip. I’d have to say that they were very similar in cleanliness and courtesy although Universal had much better water pressure in its restroom faucets and drinking fountains than Disney. Disney is a city unto itself so why can’t we have decent water pressure in the faucets and drinking fountains?

 

[igrsod]

I saw a difference this past trip for sure. Bathrooms were messy... paper towel, soap and hand sanitizer's empty or not working. Trash on the ground. Paint chipping and peeling.
Things you wouldn't see a few years ago.
The sad thing is that when things start to slide... it's a slippery slope. I am predicting that unless they get hiring and putting things back in place, you are going to see things getting worse.